DEBAYERING - PRO RES from RCX - for best results.

[Mark Toia]

Been doing quite a few tests with debayering PRO RES... looking for the optimum settings for my HOTEL ROOM work flow. Just to see if anything has changed over the last 12 months.

Firstly 4k PRO RES is bloody AWESOME!!!!!

ok

test 1.
The HDSDI feed is so clean, going through the ATMOS SAMURAI I was shocked how good the pro res file looked.. it was completely useable for any project including 2k projection. PIN SHARP! and super clean. Great output RED..

RCX, i tried all the debayer settings and was shocked to see that 1/2 debayer (premium) was so soft...
Half debayer GOOD and 4444 full debayer looked identical at 800% and pushed around in a grade... there was nothing in it.
File sizes between the two were massive! 4444 was 102meg, 422Hq 1/2 debayer was on 43meg - sharpness was identical at 800%...

if you are just using PRO RES only for your projects... the ATMOS SAMURAI gives you identical PRO RES images in real time, with no long winded transcoding necessary.
Set your camera to REDLOG and its even better to grade with.

Here are my side by sides if your interested.

http://www.zoomfilmtv.com.au/ftp/JUNK/debaryer%20stills%20copy.jpg

[Kemalettin Sert]

Thanks Mark which lens is this ? looks super sharp

[Stefan Antonescu]

Thanks Mark which lens is this ? looks super sharp
Should be the Canon 100mm Macro L. :-)

[Alvise Tedesco]

Thanks Mark.
Beside the fact that until next build, SDI isn't perfect, can you tell me if it's possible to use Samurai for offline and then relink to r3d since file names don't match?
I'm using FCP today, but I'll learn PP soon.
Cheers

[Jason Diamond]

Great illustration of your point mark! You really have it nailed for explaining and showing your test/results and reasons.

I'd say the only negative to an on-board recorder like the PIX or Samurai is offspeed but other than that it looks like a fantastic option.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The difference between the 1/2 res good and 1/2 res premium is both dramatic and unexpected.

Perhaps Graeme could provide an explanation?

Cheers - #19

PS - Thanks Mark!

[Scott Crawley]

Thanks Mark.
Beside the fact that until next build, SDI isn't perfect, can you tell me if it's possible to use Samurai for offline and then relink to r3d since file names don't match?
I'm using FCP today, but I'll learn PP soon.
Cheers

Alvise, I think you missed this bit:


if you are just using PRO RES only for your projects...

If you want to go back to r3d it looks like Pix 240 is the thing presently.

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Mark,

In rcx, which downscale algorithm did you choose? Mitchell,catMUL, binary... etc

[Peter Lyons Collister, ASC]

Mar,

With your looming commercial and how busy you must be I want to thank you for these informative tests...

[Josh Beadle]

Awesome info Mate!!

[Mark Toia]

Thanks Mark.
Beside the fact that until next build, SDI isn't perfect, can you tell me if it's possible to use Samurai for offline and then relink to r3d since file names don't match?
I'm using FCP today, but I'll learn PP soon.
Cheers


Not sure about time code sync... Ill play with it more next week..

But the EPIC does trigger it... thank god!

Its great unit, especially for the price. Really impressive infact. Long lasting batteries, great screen controls, quick, easy... Cant ask for much more than than that.
if RED could compress that down into a MODULE, I'd be a happy boy.

[Mark Toia]

Mark,

In rcx, which downscale algorithm did you choose? Mitchell,catMUL, binary... etc

Mitchell..

[Mark Toia]

The difference between the 1/2 res good and 1/2 res premium is both dramatic and unexpected.

Perhaps Graeme could provide an explanation?

Cheers - #19

PS - Thanks Mark!

Yes agree.. 1/2 Premium is crap!
1/2 good at 800% is as sharp as full debayer 4444...

[Jon Thomasberg]

Great info Mark. Thanks! Surprised by the 1/2good vs. 1/2 premium debayer.

[Bob Gundu]

Thanks for the test Mark. I found a bug in the latest RCX beta 11 that if you crop the image, none of the 1/2 debayer work and produced garbled footage. Only 1/4 and full worked properly. Again, this bug was only if you cropped the image.

[Chris McKechnie]

Thanks Mark! Very interesting results. Loos like I will be cutting the 4444 full debayer to half good. :-)

[Björn Benckert]

Not sure about time code sync... Ill play with it more next week..

But the EPIC does trigger it... thank god!

Its great unit, especially for the price. Really impressive infact. Long lasting batteries, great screen controls, quick, easy... Cant ask for much more than than that.
if RED could compress that down into a MODULE, I'd be a happy boy.

There is no great problem to resync in final cut. Just record the process stuff with file name and timecode in picture.
Then you just edit as normal in FCP.
When done you go trough your edit in and change the time code for your source clip same as in frame.. and also rename the used cuts to the given file names.
Then you export your XML as normal to rd cine and everything works like a charm.

[Colin Hubick]

Yes agree.. 1/2 Premium is crap!
1/2 good at 800% is as sharp as full debayer 4444...

I wonder what is the point of 1/2 premium then?


...And anybody have some insight to when the Atomos Samurai will also grab the file names?

[Scott Crawley]

1/2 premium is error

[Björn Benckert]

Do not know if it's true so please deny or confirm the following.

I was told that the "Process formats" all has their limited data rate. So basically if you make a HD process file it weights just as much as a 4k file, is that true? I guess I could do a quick test but I figured you guys would know.

[stu aull]

Thank you - again! - Mark for taking the time to share your tests!

damn-
:)

Stu Aull
S-X #00199
Alaska

[Chris McKechnie]

I will be testing too. :-)

[Graeme Nattress]

The difference between the 1/2 res good and 1/2 res premium is both dramatic and unexpected.

Perhaps Graeme could provide an explanation?

Cheers - #19

PS - Thanks Mark!



Premium needs OLPF compensation / sharpness up pretty high.

Graeme

[Michael Mayda]

Thank you for the input Graeme. Rendering grandson clips tonight with RC3/RG3, like the changes, will dial in some OLPF and sharpness now... Gotta love 5K family movies.

[Chris McKechnie]

I'm guessing half good needs the same thing?

[Scott Crawley]

Premium needs OLPF compensation / sharpness up pretty high.

Graeme

Very good to know, thanks!

[Adrian Lopez]

There is no great problem to resync in final cut. Just record the process stuff with file name and timecode in picture.
Then you just edit as normal in FCP.
When done you go trough your edit in and change the time code for your source clip same as in frame.. and also rename the used cuts to the given file names.
Then you export your XML as normal to rd cine and everything works like a charm.

Bjorn,

I'm assuming this would also work for Davinci?

Adrian

[Bob Gundu]

Not really. I found sharpening for 1/2 is way less than for Premium.


I'm guessing half good needs the same thing?

[Nils Ruinet]

1/2 Res debayer does often look sharper than Full Debayer, but there is a difference in noise characteristics. In my opinion, noise looks much nicer when using full debayer.
However the difference between Good and Premium is pretty surprising. Mark, if you can it would be interesting to see how 1/2 premium looks on that test when turning sharpness and OLPF up ?

[Mark Toia]

I'll give it a try....
I don't really like fiddling with settings to much. I like the fact that Red have got default settings.
But if half premium can look cleaner and sharper is this something red can adjust in the next RCX update. :)

[Martin Beek]

Premium needs OLPF compensation / sharpness up pretty high.

Graeme

I know i'm going to sound stupid asking this, but where can i find that OLPF compensation setting? Using RCXpro 12.20390


Btw. Half Normal might look sharper, but there is a lot of aliasing too - specially on hair and other fine lines.

Thanks,

Martin

[Graeme Nattress]

I know i'm going to sound stupid asking this, but where can i find that OLPF compensation setting? Using RCXpro 12.20390


Btw. Half Normal might look sharper, but there is a lot of aliasing too - specially on hair and other fine lines.

Thanks,

Martin



It's now just called "sharpness".

Graeme