PDA

View Full Version : Scarlet 4k Speculation



Cory Mitchell
01-15-2008, 09:44 PM
I was really excited to hear about the Scarlet camera. The Red One, is amazing but, for the most part, seems overkill for what I would want to do with it.

I haven't read all the speculation, but it seems that most people are assuming this will be a 2k/1080p camera. I have a hunch it won't be. After looking at the current crop of cameras popping up everywhere I see a whole bunch of 1080p cameras. A 2k camera wouldn't be that revolutionary, especially at a higher price. That just doesn't seem like the Red style; coming out with something barely higher than everything else.

There are a lot of other ways the Red would be superior (lens options, recording formats, framerates), but resolution doesn't have to be one of them. I think that way a good fixed lens could allow it to be a pocket camera and professional imager (after all we're not going for the Mini Red One, as much as it seems the people want a mini Red One with a 2k imager). Whip it out of the pocket and start recording an amazing, future proof, image.

Anyway. Just my opinion at this exciting product.

Keep up the amazing revolutionary work Red Team.

visionmind

C.J.Harvaraj
01-15-2008, 09:53 PM
4K on scarlet? wont be happening. Already discussed in this thread.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7255

Jeff Kilgroe
01-16-2008, 12:16 AM
I'm not so convinced. I'd say that given RED's commitment to 4K delivery and other aspects of 4K, there's still a good chance. We don't know enough details to surmise just what Scarlet is or what sort of sensor it will have. No guarantee that it will be the same Mysterium sensor that is in RED One.

I guess we'll find out at NAB unless someone slips up and spills the beans before then.

miles
01-16-2008, 02:16 AM
It could just be a 2K camera/chip, but with the fine tuning and maximizations of its output by Graeme. Which could then look almost like 4K of the other competitors.

Graeme mentioned already that nominal values like 1080i (compared to 720p) etc. mean nothing if they are not processed and delivered properly.

Maybe the heart of this camera lies in its processing of the image data, versatility and small form factor that will all be superior compared to other camcorders out there.

Lp, m.

C.J.Harvaraj
01-16-2008, 07:10 AM
i speculate.

scarlet will be a 4k, b-roll camera which uses RED ONEs processing power. you would need a RED ONE to operate scarlet. if you don't have RED you would need a laptop to capture and process red footage.


p/s: i don't know what the f**k I'm talking about. i think i better get a sleep now.

Jeff Kilgroe
01-16-2008, 08:36 AM
C.J.

You may not be too far off. One of my theories about what Scarlet is, is just that. A "pocket-sized" 4K camera body that will require it be tethered to a RED or external processor box. Similar to the SI-2K mini camera.

Anyway, Scarlet could be lots of things. There are lots of things I would be happy with Scarlet being. It seems a lot of people here are hoping for a 2K mini RED for cheap to appease the "can't quite afford a RED or don't want to spend $20K on a camera body crowd". Whatever direction Scarlet takes, it looks like there are plenty of other opportunities for future RED products.

Cory Mitchell
01-16-2008, 11:17 AM
Yeah, no matter what, I look forward to when we actually find out more about the camera and what the Red team has been working on.

Sven Seynaeve
01-16-2008, 11:22 AM
I really think Scarlet will be the Red answer to the SI-2k , which seems easier to handle in some situations like 3d cinematography etc...

sloz
01-16-2008, 11:43 AM
all that we need itīs a 2k camera with proffessional features... and an affordable solution for a lot of documentaries productions, young independent directors and for the people who doesnīt have a big inversion in post-production equipments...

ColinSmith
01-16-2008, 12:05 PM
Assuming it's a standalone camera, and not some tethered add-on, I hope that it is NOT 4k. Why? Because we are told it will not be competition to the Red One, so if it is 4k and still no competition then it would have to be lacking too many other features for that to be true, and I don't think that is Red's style.

I hope that it is "not competition" for the Red One in the same way that S16 is "not competition" for S35.

Carl Larsen
01-16-2008, 01:15 PM
Red is synonymous with 4k. I know in other posts, I've speculated that scarlet is 2K, but now I'm not as confident.

Only red knows. In the mean time, I should keep editing - not returning to this strangely addicting site.

Nathan Troutman
01-17-2008, 01:13 PM
Red is synonymous with 4k. I know in other posts, I've speculated that scarlet is 2K, but now I'm not as confident.

Only red knows. In the mean time, I should keep editing - not returning to this strangely addicting site.

Amen:w00t:

The thing that will be the same I think is the power of RAW. Far more than 4k the thing that makes Red, Red is RAW. This is the thing that will make even a 2K scarlet version kick the crap out of the EX1 & HVX 200. Because with RAW you move all the image processing to the desktop where you have time and computational horsepower. The end result - a much better image and flexibility to eliminate shooting errors in the field. It always amazes me how much easier it is to digest a shot, see mistakes, etc. when your in an editing suite as opposed to on-set. The RAW concept is so simple it's amazing no one else has tried it. Why try to encode realtime in camera? Shoot RAW, that's what Red is all about. I think you only need to look at professional digital photography to see RAW and digital is the way that wins. They've already been through all of this. Everyone shoots RAW with lots of resolution and photoshops their brains out until it looks perfect.

I would love to maintain 35mm depth of field with Scarlet but I know nothing about CMOS sensors so I don't know if you can even make a 2K chip at that size. But if you can please keep it 35mm.

In a way I want an integrated lens. I know, I know interchangeable is so much better, and I won't be unhappy either way with this feature. But integrated is so much simpler and well, cheaper. Just a nice zoom range that gets the job done. There is something to be said for pull it out and shoot - not pull it out, open the next case, attach the fixed lens, then shoot, whoops I wanted a zoom lens, pull off the lens, put it back, open another case, shit that's the wrong case, who moved the silver case with the zoom!, fire the PA, get the silver case, put on the zoom lens, now fall over from fatigue.

Cory Mitchell
01-17-2008, 05:38 PM
Even though we still know almost nothing about the camera, I'd maintain that Red's philosophy is not about avoiding competition with Red One and Scarlett through features. Red One already has 2k, why make another only 2k camera? Other larger corporations are the ones who take out features in lower products in order so they don't compete with higher products.

I think the thing emphasized here is not features, but rather form factor. The Red One is an extremely expandable camera. The rails, the handles, the LCD, the EVF, (different monitoring choices) the batteries, and lets not forget the many recording options. That's great, but it's also means that you can't just pull it out and start shooting (unless you put it away without taking anything off).

I imagine (and it's nothing more than that) something smaller, not so expandable, but can easily be held with one hand. (I think a flip down sort of gun handle would rock, like old 8mm cams, that's just me) All the major frame rates. (24/25/30/50/60) Something more simple. A Professional Pocket Cam.

Anyway. I don't know what is and isn't possible, technologically, but in Red I trust (when it comes to 4k resolutions (monitors, cameras, projectors, workflows, etc...)

visionmind

Dylan Macleod, CSC
01-18-2008, 04:56 PM
http://chadliebenguth.grumblyolds.com/red/cloverfieldscarlet.png

I posed this question a few hours ago on the "other" Scarlet speculation thread!

Looks like her to me! Except she better deliver better quality than that crusty looking trailer.

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

Priyesh P.
01-18-2008, 06:01 PM
the pocket camera is never going to be 4K. that's a given.

Cory Mitchell
01-18-2008, 06:05 PM
that sounds very familiar. where have I heard that sentiment before?

:)

Cory Mitchell
01-30-2008, 10:44 AM
The more I've read around, the more I've discovered that most people have closed off anything new in their head.
A cheaper Red One, but in 2k, and smaller accordingly.
There's nothing new or revolutionary about that. In fact that is similar to all the current crop of prosumer camcorders from other companies. "Good Enough", I believe I've heard it called.
The most reasonable reason why I've heard that Scarlet won't be 4k, is heat.

But I remembered back to when this camera was announced, a while ago. It was announced with a 4k display, a 4k projector, and eventually a 4k workflow.
Why invest so much into 4k, only to say "Hey I've got an idea, let's make a smaller red one, but 2k or 1080p, so we can compete with the HVX and other prosumer cameras."
I just don't see that. In fact that, as business idea, doesn't make sense. The Red one is the ultimate 2k camera. It's professional. It's not prosumer. They chose to make it at $17,500, which is more of a prosumer price range. That doesn't mean Red is in the prosumer camera market.
Why then make the same camera but 2k and smaller?

If I'm wrong, that's fine. I wouldn't be offended to the least degree. Red does what they do. But I do remember what people said when they first announced the Red One, and for some odd reason I'm hearing the exact same sentiments now, again, from people who should know Red.

Sure Scarlet could be a smaller cheaper 2k Red One, but there would be nothing new about that. That doesn't mean Red always has to come up with something new, but they just don't seem like a company that makes a step down product.

More than anything I really want to stop hearing people say "It can't be done" or "No way" or "It doesn't make sense to make it 4k" or anything like that. This is Red, not Sony, Samsung, or Panasonic.

Bing Bailey
01-30-2008, 10:56 AM
Well since red has just registered scarlet 2k as a trademark , I think 2k is on the money

Bing Bailey
01-30-2008, 11:06 AM
there are alot more people in the hvx/ex1 price range/market than in the 30k market. its easier to ammortize all the R and D costs in making the Red ONE by reusing the knowledge to create a 2k camera for this market of people who just can't afford 30k but are avid indie film makers and what better way to get people into the RED way of doing things. if you used scarlet you'll probably gain a great deal of the knowledge needed to jump up and use the RED ONE. the workflow will probably be identicle , CF only ,

the hope is that they

create a 2k scarlet , it records to CF , it has 35mm dept of field maybe it has a fixed zoom lens. just because nobody has brough professional features to the 6k price market doesnt mean they won't or can't. there seems to be a certain amount of snobbery about this. whats to fear. the camera is just a tool. if you're a good dp , you'll get better images. why be so snobby about its availablity to other interested pro and semi pro film makers

yes the great unwashed will be churning out images and they'll probably be pretty terrible. so what, ideas and talent always trumps tools

Joe Carney
01-30-2008, 11:47 AM
Jim also said pocket camera. I'm beginning to think he meant those large expandable pockets you see on Battle Dress Uniforms (BDU) or cargo shorts.

Bing Bailey
01-30-2008, 12:16 PM
Zeke,

you've been to the circus. he meant clown pockets with lots of clowns coming out of them :)

Bing Bailey
01-30-2008, 12:17 PM
I'd love to shoot some footage from a circus

killfilm
01-30-2008, 05:27 PM
i dont think it'll be 4k as its clearly stated that scarlet will NOT compete with red. defeats the purpose dont it. 2k is plently

Patrick Tresch
02-18-2008, 01:26 PM
Just to put some oil on the dying fire:)

"We have been committed to 4K from day one. It has always been our vision to see 4K in the home as well as on the big screen. We always believed that 1080P was a stop-gap along the way to 4K..." Jim


Patrick

killfilm
02-18-2008, 04:42 PM
Just to put some oil on the dying fire:)

"We have been committed to 4K from day one. It has always been our vision to see 4K in the home as well as on the big screen. We always believed that 1080P was a stop-gap along the way to 4K..." Jim


Patrick

Scarlet will not compete with the Red-sticky

laguun
02-18-2008, 06:59 PM
all this specualtion is useless.
scarlet will be a pocket camera and record black at inifinite resolution and framerate therefore.

scnr.

killfilm
02-18-2008, 07:12 PM
all this specualtion is useless.
scarlet will be a pocket camera and record black at inifinite resolution and framerate therefore.

scnr.

will it record images

Luis de la Cerda
02-18-2008, 07:34 PM
If Scarlet were 4K it would compete with red one as much as a hv20 competes with an F900. A pocket camera because of it's very nature will never compete with a full size camera because each has their particular uses. This is the camera you'll want to use when you cannot use a fullsize camera for whatever reason. I just can't see why red one customers are so threatened by scarlet. Are you planning on having a focus puller doing his work on a pocket camera? Were you planning on using scarlet on a dolly? I don't think so. I also don't think you were planning on using your red one as a crash cam, but wouldn't it be nice if your crash cam footage had matching characteristics to the rest of your production? IMHO, there's no point in scarlet being anything less sensor-wise relative to the red one. I think red's lineup should focus on competing with everything else out there instead of trying to avoid competing with itself. Red hasn't enough market share to concern itself with it's own products competing with themselves. I think scarlet should be a complimentary camera to the red one, not a replacement. And that doesn't mean it should be somehow crippled just for the sake of keeping it from competing with red one, but rather have a feature set that plants it firmly in it's own market spot as the most solid contender of it's category both feature and price wise. :)

killfilm
02-18-2008, 08:29 PM
If Scarlet were 4K it would compete with red one as much as a hv20 competes with an F900. A pocket camera because of it's very nature will never compete with a full size camera because each has their particular uses. This is the camera you'll want to use when you cannot use a fullsize camera for whatever reason. I just can't see why red one customers are so threatened by scarlet. Are you planning on having a focus puller doing his work on a pocket camera? Were you planning on using scarlet on a dolly? I don't think so. I also don't think you were planning on using your red one as a crash cam, but wouldn't it be nice if your crash cam footage had matching characteristics to the rest of your production? IMHO, there's no point in scarlet being anything less sensor-wise relative to the red one. I think red's lineup should focus on competing with everything else out there instead of trying to avoid competing with itself. Red hasn't enough market share to concern itself with it's own products competing with themselves. I think scarlet should be a complimentary camera to the red one, not a replacement. And that doesn't mean it should be somehow crippled just for the sake of keeping it from competing with red one, but rather have a feature set that plants it firmly in it's own market spot as the most solid contender of it's category both feature and price wise. :)

precisely

Ameer Azari
02-21-2008, 08:42 AM
I agree with cholo

Cory Mitchell
02-21-2008, 02:14 PM
Well put cholo.

Right after my last post on this thread the whole website and 2k trademark thing popped up, so I was like 'doh!'.

But then we found out that the trademark was a year old and I read what Jim said on the DVinfo.net thread recently, which continue to fuel the 4k speculation within me. But, who knows for sure, eh?

Either way, I look forward to NAB and wish (for my lack of patience) that it was in March and not April.

michael zaletel
04-15-2008, 03:47 PM
I haven't read all the speculation, but it seems that most people are assuming this will be a 2k/1080p camera. I have a hunch it won't be. A

Excellent early prediction VisionMind. Just 1k shy of seeing the future. Just thought I'd point out that you were one of the first to predict > 2K.

-shooter

Cory Mitchell
04-15-2008, 09:23 PM
thanks Shooter.

While I was a k offf, I just had a gut feeling that Red wouldn't settle for anything common/usual. 3k at 1-120 fps, 100mb/s codec for under $3k. Good freakin' grief.

visionmind