MXF with synced sound from RCX can't be played

[Matthias Stöckl]

Hi guys,
I'm a total newbie to Avid Media Composer. I'm used to work with FinalCut and Premiere but never got a hand on an Avid.
Now I'm involved in a project shot on Red Epic 4KHD. The editor knows Media Composer but really nothing about different files, codecs and all the hassle usually an assistant editor has to deal with. So this became suddenly my part, too.

My plan was to sync the sound to the R3D files in Red Cine X (latest version) and export it to MXF in DNxHD 120 8bit in 1080.
But after finally getting the files into the Media Composer (version 5.0.3) every clip with synced sound shows a duration of 0:00 and following alert pops up: "The sequence or one of its source elements is too long to be played"
But the clips are rarely longer than a couple of minutes. And all the clips that don't have synced sound can be played back with no problem no matter how long they are.

Has anybody ever encountered this problem? I got the feeling that either this is a problem of some sort of wrong import settings in MC (4 channels of audio) or Red Cine X messes up the MXF files when sound comes along.

Thanks in advance!
Matthias

[martinnoweck]

hi matthias,
why don't you sync in Mediacomposer?
best wishes and kind regards,
m

[martinnoweck]

hi matthias,
why don't you sync in mediacomposer?

what is your timebase?
best wishes and kind regards,
martin

[MichaelP]

This is a known issue with audio in 1080p/25 on Mac based versions of RCXPro. It is due to the Avid AMT (SDK) being used to create the MXF native media. An updated version of the SDK is available that addresses this problem. RED will address in their development cycle per their schedule I suspect.

Michael

[martinnoweck]

thanks michael, do you have a link to the discussion on this forum?
best wishes and kind regards,
martin

[MichaelP]

It's the Avid section somewhere, I need to look for it. But I agree there are certain advantages to syncing in Media Composer for a post editorial workflow compared to syncing in third party tools.

Michael

[MichaelP]

There is an earlier reference to the same issue here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?62298-AVID-says-timecode-is-too-long-Epic-M&highlight=1080p%2F25+audio

[martinnoweck]

thanks

[Matthias Stöckl]

Thanks for the information, guys. I startet transcoding before the editorial staff was nominated and I expected some sort of editor or assistant who I could ask for further advice. I never thought of having to work in Media Composer, but I guess this will be the way to go.

[martinnoweck]

matthias, it is as easy as in redcine x pro:
1) create picture mxf and aaf in redcine
2) copy the picture mxf to the avid mediafiles folder on your editing system
3) import (or drag and drop) the aaf into avid bin
4) the clips should online now
5) import the audio into avid
6) select the shots you want to sync and the corresponding audio
7) click autosync and you should be fine
best wishes and kind regards,
martin
p.s. i assume the r3d files and the audio share the same timecode?

[Matthias Stöckl]

i assume the r3d files and the audio share the same timecode?
Yes they do. And brought into Media Composer i saw that also audio and r3d files that RCX wasn't able to link share timecode.
So I dumped all the MXF I transcoded until now and now export them without audio.
This audio syncing in Avid really works pretty good.
But are these combined audio and video files then saved as stand-alone files? It would be ideal to have a MC project only I work on until I got the desired MXF with sound and bring these then into a new project so that the editor doesn't see all the mess with all the unsynced files. Does that make sense?

[MichaelP]

An AutoSync clip is always a subclip that references two sources; one for picture and one for sound. In the case of true double system recording this is essential to the post workflow as the BWF import keeps all the metadata in the BWF file that gets lost when syncing in REDCNE X as well as other dailies apps. Also having the flexibility to sync only the mix track but still have access to the ISO tracks via a match frame is fantastic for the editor.

But in your scenario, it is only being used as a workaround for an issue with REDCINE X, so the advantages aren't as obvious, unless there is a MIX and ISO tracks that you would like to manage more easily. So when working with AutoSync clips, you will always have V clips, A clips and the resulting VA clips. This comes down to basic organization. I create a folder for original sources, in there bins by day and type. They the synced clips are moved to another bin which is what the editor will eventually use. I have seen large studio level features end up with projects that have up to 4000 bins organized in folders and such by the time they get to the end of the process.

The evolving role of DIT and Data Wranglers to become post "assistant editors" is an an interesting and challenging one. It has been a while that the cutting room doesn't sync dailies and expects that from the facility which makes sense for many program types and schedules and in others it doesn't. But now that facility function is moving on set with "dailies" apps that have different strengths and weaknesses, and data wrangler types that don't have post editorial management skill sets, with the expected reporting, flagging, metadata management and organization is being lost. And that is not a good thing.

I am still old school when it comes to projects that I edit (features). I insist on syncing the Media Composer for full control of tracks, metadata, and management. There is plenty of evolution and innovation that be done between the on set dailies applications, training, and the NLE being used for editorial to streamline a lot of this.

Michael