New guy question. Camera Options very daunting! What do I need to get started?

[bradV]

Hello all.

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. Just wasn't sure where to post this.

Well here we go...

Red has me salivating. I am in the position of having about 25k-30k to spend.

I have some other cameras in mind that are a bit cheaper, but this 4k Red camera has me so hypnotized! The image quality that I have seen from some you guys here has me feeling so unsettled about purchasing anything but Red!

Of course it's a very expensive camera, but I love the fact that it's upgradeable. With that being said...

I have been to the store page and I'm very overwhelmed at all the different options.

Can any of you help me figure out if I can get an operational camera with the above mentioned amounts?

What would I need for a nice starter camera (parts to buy from the store here)? What do I need to start shooting? For now, I don't need it all, just a basic start up camera that I can take out and start shooting my stuff!

Am I even close to getting started for $25k?

[Emery Wells]

For a starter package you should anticipate spending 40k. 25 will get you a body, some batteries, and a viewfinder.

[Erik Rangel]

29300 for
body
base production pack
18-50mm lens
battery pack
red drive
and lcd

That's enough to get you started. You can skip the lens when the nikon mount becomes available and use nikon lenses.

[Ed Watkins]

29300 for
body
base production pack
18-50mm lens
battery pack
red drive
and lcd

That's enough to get you started. You can skip the lens when the nikon mount becomes available and use nikon lenses.

Hmm.. don't forget to factor in a decent tripod (18-30lbs head weight), and ND filters if you shoot outdoors allot (RED doesn't have built in ND's).
If you use the red lenses, you'll also need a MatteBox, and rods for it, to hold the ND filters.
If you use the nikon lens mount and lenses you could go with standard screw in filters, and forgo the MatteBox.

You'll also need a shotgun mic, or a boom mic, (as RED has no on board mic) and a mounting bracket for the mic.

Then you are ready to go....

...I won't mention post production.

[Erik Rangel]

What would I need for a nice starter camera (parts to buy from the store here)?
You can't buy the tripod, mattebox and filters from the store...yet:)

[sceneeast]

What kind of productions are you planning on doing?

Bob

[Ed Watkins]

You can't buy the tripod, mattebox and filters from the store...yet:)

Sorry! My bad.


I just wanted anyone looking to buy a camera like the RED to know that there are allot of other costs involved.

BUT.. I'd love RED to make all the accessories! :w00t:

[Gunleik Groven]

hi & welcome!
If this is not the place to ask, nowhere is.

thing is, when people draw the "all the extras" argument, that is true, but it's more or less universally true :)

if you order now, the nikon mount will most likely be available, or you could go the Birger/Canon route to save some $$$ on glass.

you can be out shooting for less than 40k.

build as you earn, or sell if you don't :)

gunleik

[bradV]

Thanks guys.
Yeah I have a bundle in my cart right now for about 30k. Not ready to spend just yet, but I wanted to try and get an idea of what would get me going.



What kind of productions are you planning on doing?

Bob

Well it's kind of an assortment of projects right now.

Weddings
3 Documentaries lined up right now (some really cool pieces)
One of which, is a more personal project that will have me all around the World if it gets off the ground.


RED is just such a dream camera and if I'm gonna do my projects, then I want to future proof them with the Quality RED offers.

Besides, I'm a techNut...I love having the Good Stuff. If you're gonna do it...do it with the best! (The best you can afford that is!)

[AzelJames]

I don't have a red but from my research I wouldn't definitely not consider the red for documentaries or weddings. It is more of a film crew camera.

Now red people don't kill me, but I think for documentaries and weddings either the p2 workflow or HDV route is a great option. They are atleast a third the price and perfect for run and gun and documentaries. I shot a feature length documentary called 'the oracle of Del-Fi' on an HVX's that I own and rented varicam and the post workflow is sweet.

BUUUUTTTT, if you want to eventually shoot indie features I see the red as an earth shattering hell of a camera.

[bradV]

I don't have a red but from my research I wouldn't definitely not consider the red for documentaries or weddings. It is more of a film crew camera.

Now red people don't kill me, but I think for documentaries and weddings either the p2 workflow or HDV route is a great option. They are atleast a third the price and perfect for run and gun and documentaries. I shot a feature length documentary called 'the oracle of Del-Fi' on an HVX's that I own and rented varicam and the post workflow is sweet.

BUUUUTTTT, if you want to eventually shoot indie features I see the red as an earth shattering hell of a camera.

Well, I agree.

I just love everything about RED ONE.

I guess it's just the thought of capturing images in 4k that has me so smitten. Even if I didn't make millions of dollars with my projects, it would bering me a great deal of satisfaction to capture the images at such level of detail.

However, since I don't make that sort of cash...it's more of a Dream right now.

For me, I just love this stuff. Even if I didn't make a dime from it, I would love it the same and to have one of these cameras would really make me happy...to say the least. :)

[rod bradley]

Hi Brad, I agree with Azel, Red would not be the most friendly documentary camera -- unless it was very high end with an appropriate crew including data wrangler. And there was a real need to have the kind of detail 4K would allow.

[Ed Watkins]

I don't have a red but from my research I wouldn't definitely not consider the red for documentaries or weddings. It is more of a film crew camera.

Now red people don't kill me, but I think for documentaries and weddings either the p2 workflow or HDV route is a great option. They are atleast a third the price and perfect for run and gun and documentaries. I shot a feature length documentary called 'the oracle of Del-Fi' on an HVX's that I own and rented varicam and the post workflow is sweet.

BUUUUTTTT, if you want to eventually shoot indie features I see the red as an earth shattering hell of a camera.

A bit off topic, but I'm gonna disagree with you on this one (I'm not killing you though!).

There are some production companies/channels (who will remain nameless) who don't believe HVX footage is acceptable in HD documentary productions, and limit it to a max of 30-40% of a production, basically ruling out the cheaper HD cameras to produce shows. Meaning you have to shoot at least some of your show on an HPX, XDCAM or Varicam. At that price bracket the RED is a winner.

The 2K work flow is ideal for doc usage, it's essentially no different from the P2 workflow if you use the QT proxies. The added bonus to the RED's is the 320gb drives (5-6hrs footage at 2K) and the huge range of lenses that can be used (ideal for wildlife documentaries).

I certainly wouldn't rule the RED out for doc work.

[Vladimir Eugene]

Hi Brad,

I own a red camera package. Here is what I would get for documentary work

body-- 17,500
basic prod package-- 1,250
top handle extention --175
additional top mount --250


the xtra top mount and extention will give you two points the handle connects to the body. I find this more solid.

left hand -- 250 , for hand held
Red LCD-- 1,700

power pack-- 1,450
2xtra bricks-- 900
2 red drives-- 1800

nikon mount - 500 =25,775

A mattebox from Micro 500, a few nikon zooms 1000 your still at 27275

a good light weight run and gun tripod and sticks on craigs list. It's very possible.

I'm not saying it's the most practical- but possible, and what some will do

Vladimir Eugene

[Joe Vinson]

I'd be very careful getting a RED for use on weddings. Unless you just set it up on a tripod and leave, you're going to need a Steadicam Archer or equivalent and a GOOD focus puller.

I'm sure a bride and groom would love to have their special day captured in 4k with beautifully-shallow depth of field, but that enthusiasm will decrease quickly when you deliver footage that's too blurry to watch.

[Esperman]

Weddings
3 Documentaries lined up right now (some really cool pieces)
One of which, is a more personal project that will have me all around the World if it gets off the ground.

Do yourself a favor and don't buy RED. Stick to a good Sony or Panasonic 1/3 inch chip camera. The RED camera operation and workflow requirements don't make sense for what you really need. Thinking your going to use a RED for weddings or low budget docs is not rooted in reality...:sad:

[sceneeast]

One of which, is a more personal project that will have me all around the World if it gets off the ground.

Brad: This project traveling around the world. Are you by yourself or with a crew? If you are alone than you need to consider on how much equipment you can transport by yourself safely.

Bob

[Peter Karlsson]

Im also interested in what a absolutely bare-minimum configuration is? I will of course add parts later, but for the first months of usage I will put the red in a fixed place in a greenscreen studio, and it will be basically stuck there for a while.

Would this work. Red One camera body, a 18-50 Zoom lens, a flat screen with hdmi input (I already got a monitor. Can I operate it with this one, or do I need the red lcd/efv anyway?), a red raid drive, a ac power adaptor and a dc power cable?

I don´t need to run the camera on batteries at first. Will it work just with the ac adaptor and a dc power cable? Can I use all functions on an external monitor standing on a table besides the camera? Am I an idiot? :clown2:

/Regards Peter

[Vladimir Eugene]

Im also interested in what a absolutely bare-minimum configuration is...Would this work. Red One camera body, a 18-50 Zoom lens, a flat screen with hdmi input (I already got a monitor. Can I operate it with this one, or do I need the red lcd/efv anyway?), a red raid drive, a ac power adaptor and a dc power cable?

/Regards Peter

What you mentioned will work fine. You may or may not need an additional piece to connect to the red raid.

vladimir eugene

[Peter Karlsson]

Thank you Vladimir! Maybe I´ll go with the CF module and a CF card for now, until I know how all pieces fits together.

[Vladimir Eugene]

Small note, not all hdmi monitors might work. Some have worked for me, others have not.

[Casey Green]

I might suggest renting a RED Camera package and seeing how it works for your particular needs on a small project. You will learn a lot and be able to make a decision with confidence.

[sparkhope]

Do yourself a favor and don't buy RED. Stick to a good Sony or Panasonic 1/3 inch chip camera. The RED camera operation and workflow requirements don't make sense for what you really need. Thinking your going to use a RED for weddings or low budget docs is not rooted in reality...:sad:


Ouch... but alas I agree. You may be able to use Red in a stable/controlled wedding ceremony but frankly, I don't see it happening at a reception. You might as well budget for a stabilizer rig and a very wide lens to help with focus. Figuring that most deliverables for those events end up on HD it really doesn't make sense to deliver 2k+ does it?

[jtcoleman]

if you're going to do docs and weddings and such, then I would steer clear of the CF card. The limited capacity of the CF card means shorter takes, and that doesn't seem to gel very well with the long takes you'll need for docs and weddings IMO (of course, I'm not a wedding videographer, so maybe I'm wrong on that.)

I think the point earlier about DOF was a good one, you're going to need to be careful or you'll end up with some really, really high definition footage that's out of focus, and an unhappy bride.

I'm going with: base camera, prod pack, top handle ext, red raid, LCD with arm, battery pack. Not sure what I'm doing for lenses yet, leaning towards the red set since I have a gut feeling that the glass will be great for the money (I guess I just trust Jim and the crew to know more about lenses than I do )

I would definately go with the production pack, though. You save about $1500 over what it would cost if you bought those pieces individually.


JT
Austin, Texas

[Nathan Garofalos]

Using a RED for a wedding will be hard. You need a great focus puller, or you can do that by yourself, and its hard to do that and move around trying to get all the shots your customer will want. 4k is great, but your going to have to edit it in 2k anyway's. There are only around 100 4k projectors in the world, will your wedding be shown in 4k? And if your editing on a mac, color can only edit 2k files not the native 4k r3d files in color. And on top of that, you need terabits of space for a full wedding, and even more storage space to back it up, then you have to store your RAW 4k files tucked away in some closest incase something happens when your editing. You can always edit in RED CINE, and do your first color correction that way...

[Steve Sherrick]

I wouldn't be thinking 4K for these projects. I'd be thinking 2K, Red Drive, 16mm lenses or Birger system, and some form of stabilization. If you're a very experienced shooter, then you could probably do a good job with this rig for certain types of weddings, run and gun docs, etc. The best piece of advcie anyone can give you though is to go rent a Red for a day. You need to see what it will be like using one before running out and spending 40K. Believe it or not that 40K might be better spent on a HPX3000, XDCAM EX, etc. If you need a refernce point for how versatile the camera is look no further than what Gibby has been doing with it. But, he is a guy who has been shooting for a long time and knows his way around a camera, any camera.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Steve

[bradV]

Thanks a lot guys.

Although RED is a fantastic camera, I now see it's not for me...just yet.

I appreciate all the info. I can now purchase the camera I was looking at before I took this "info" detour.

RED just wouldn't fit my needs right now. Actually lets say it would be overkill for what I need right now.

However..Scarlet...maybe she will be the girl I'm looking for next year...!?

We'll see.

Thanks again guys.

[Steve Sherrick]

Brad, where are you? Is there anyone in your area that can give you a demo of the camera? It's worth at least checking out. Then you can make a very informed decision either way. Is the other camera you are looking at the XDCAM EX?

Steve

[Colin C]

Steve makes a great point. Actually getting your hands on a camera if you're able to, can answer a lot of questions including some you haven't yet thought of.
Ages back being able to try a XL2 allowed me to realise it just wasn't what I wanted. A decision I'm happy with today.

[bradV]

Brad, where are you? Is there anyone in your area that can give you a demo of the camera? It's worth at least checking out. Then you can make a very informed decision either way. Is the other camera you are looking at the XDCAM EX?

Steve

I wish there was someone here locally in Virginia Beach, Va so that I could take at look at the Camera and it's capabilities!

As far as the "other" camera I'm interested in...

Indeed... it is the EX. :detective2:

[Steve Sherrick]

I've seen the EX in action. Nice camera. Should serve you very well.

Steve

[Nathan Garofalos]

Look into the EX 1, its nice... BUT BEFORE YOU PURCHASE ANYHTING please wait until after NAB and the release of scarlet, and other possible cameras. If you are looking to spend between 25-30k on a camera, you have LOTS of really good options. I wish I had that to spend on a camera. You should really wait tell NAB. Scarlet may be just what you are looking for, and you could have it totally tricked out with spending possibly half of that. Good luck!!! You also may want to look at a Canon XL H1, that is a really nice camera too.

[bradV]

Look into the EX 1, its nice... BUT BEFORE YOU PURCHASE ANYHTING please wait until after NAB and the release of scarlet, and other possible cameras. If you are looking to spend between 25-30k on a camera, you have LOTS of really good options. I wish I had that to spend on a camera. You should really wait tell NAB. Scarlet may be just what you are looking for, and you could have it totally tricked out with spending possibly half of that. Good luck!!! You also may want to look at a Canon XL H1, that is a really nice camera too.

When is NAB? April?

Even if Scarlet is announced...isn't it still a ways away from release? Like 2009?

[Nathan Garofalos]

http://www.nabshow.com/default2.asp

That's NAB. Its a trade show where company's come together and show off new products and concepts for the upcoming years. I haven't ever gone, this will be my first year.