NAB - Apple announces Special Event [Archive]

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Jared VanLeuven

03-01-2007, 02:07 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/01/apple-to-hold-special-event-at-nab/

Way cool, even if the rumors are off. Bring it on, NAB!

Michael Schrengohst

03-01-2007, 03:02 PM

Strap in for launch!

Manfred Lopez

03-01-2007, 04:36 PM

I really hope that the special partnerships that red will announce include one with Apple, and that Final Cut Extreme is announced as being available immediatelly along with octo-macs and ready-built-in-native support for the red format... oh, and also the new 50 inch 4K dispays...

Is this too much to hope for?

Graeme Nattress

03-01-2007, 06:13 PM

I'm guessing they'll announce iTeaPot or something that makes tea for busy video editors, with a nice GUI and online browser to select Earl Grey, Darjeeling, Oolong or Lapsang Souchon. I'll have a Lapsang please.

Michael Schrengohst

03-01-2007, 07:19 PM

iRED or REDAPPLE

Don Woods

03-01-2007, 08:39 PM

They do it every year they put out something new and big. I would go if you can it is allot of fun.

luis bustamante

03-01-2007, 09:13 PM

is there any way to sneak in?

Don Woods

03-01-2007, 09:52 PM

Just keep looking at the apple events page at apple.com and it will show up a week before or so the show. Register fast it will fill up fast.

Jared VanLeuven

03-02-2007, 10:00 AM

Just to add fuel to the rumor-pyle:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/announcements/apple-to-hold-nab-special-event-excited-fans-to-be-disappointed-probably-240975.php

Gizmodo speculates that there will be no hardware announcements, FWIW.

Jeff Kilgroe

03-02-2007, 10:16 AM

Nothing new there...

Apple will have 8-core Mac Pro systems when they can start shipping the upcoming Stoakley/Seaburg chipset. It's a given... Intel is on track to deliver that chipset to OEMs next month, so 8-core Mac Pro systems could (and probably will) be announced at NAB. But I doubt they will ship until late April or May. I would look for a Leopard release at NAB... It just makes sense that their updated pro apps will need some of Leopard's features and there's no way they're going to show up at NAB, call a special event and have no pro-app updates.

To me, one of the biggest questions is what's to become of Shake? Also, will Apple start offering BluRay drives as an option in the Mac Pro?

Oh well, I won't buy a new system until I get RED. Maybe by then we'll see another spec bump on Mac Pro systems and cheaper RAM... Not that I would buy my FB-DIMMs through Apple at their unworldly prices.

Jared VanLeuven

03-02-2007, 10:39 AM

Heh, Think Secret stokes the fire even further:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/02/final-cut-pro-6-final-cut-extreme-details-displays-again/

This is getting good, let the Rumor Wars begin!

luis bustamante

03-02-2007, 10:53 AM

Just keep looking at the apple events page at apple.com and it will show up a week before or so the show. Register fast it will fill up fast.

great! So that events page is the one linked in the news page at apple.com?

thanks!

luis bustamante

03-02-2007, 10:59 AM

Heh, Think Secret stokes the fire even further:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/02/final-cut-pro-6-final-cut-extreme-details-displays-again/

This is getting good, let the Rumor Wars begin!

the multitouch display technology is being mentioned a lot since the iphone. Like here (http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/02/27/rumor-mill-no-logic-8-new-pro-tools-killer-instead/) on a"pro tools killer app" rumor. Also there's much talk of a 4k capable monitor, combine those two and you have a true dream come true. Add FCPX and RED and suddenly it's digital cinema nirvana!

Hope at least some of the rumors are true!

Holosynthetic

03-02-2007, 12:52 PM

cell chips? I heard they weren't all that good at processing. Am I to assume that with a workstation with cell chips that the only thing it would be able to do is run high resolution video? I want something that can be both a video editing workstation and a powerful render station for 3d animation. Anyone with some insight into this?

Chris Armstrong

03-02-2007, 01:05 PM

Jeff Kilgroe

03-02-2007, 01:18 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

CELL? ...NOT! The "Cell" CPU is just a PowerPC 908 series with all the legacy junk stripped off of it. I'm not sure when people are going to figure that one out. IBM and Sony have a joint copyright on the "Cell" name as it pertains to CPUs.

Nothing wrong with Cell, it's a great multi-core CPU (available in 3, 7 and 9 core configs right now). It scales very well using multiple Cell processors in a NUMA-style configuration (memory banks are isolated to their respective Cell processors). The Cell on it's own is rather weak compared to a Core 2 series x86 processor or most desktop style CPUs. But as I said, they scale well and have their purpose. They're ideal for embedded applications, like the PS3 or a 3-core Cell would do really well inside a new Samsung refrigerator with built-in DVD player and coffee maker.

I could see Cell being used on video processor boards as maybe a host processor, but it's not going to do the bulk of the actual video processing. If this whole hardware-accelerated FCP Extreme were true, I would look for a custom set of ASICs from TI, Broadcom or nVidia, possibly ATI/AMD. Apple isn't going to re-invent the wheel here and they're probably not going to start from scratch either... there will be an underlying hardware partner like nVidia, AJA or BlueFish helping to at least design the hardware and possibly even supply a good bit of the firmware and software for it.

Anyway, if Apple wants to charge a lot of money to sell systems that compete with Avid, I say GREAT! I don't believe it's actually going to happen, but maybe it will. I just hope that if they do this, they don't cripple FCP on the low end so that we must upgrade to the "Extreme" version in order to work with 2K/4K media. That would be foolish of Apple to do something like that and will leave them wide open for Adobe to fill the gap in the middle.

Jeff Kilgroe

03-02-2007, 01:19 PM

Simon Blackledge

03-02-2007, 01:47 PM

OEM aja kona's in Discreet Lustre I think.

4 sdi outs ? :-/

Jared VanLeuven

03-02-2007, 02:58 PM

Anyway, if Apple wants to charge a lot of money to sell systems that compete with Avid, I say GREAT! I don't believe it's actually going to happen, but maybe it will. I just hope that if they do this, they don't cripple FCP on the low end so that we must upgrade to the "Extreme" version in order to work with 2K/4K media. That would be foolish of Apple to do something like that and will leave them wide open for Adobe to fill the gap in the middle.

I agree, I'd hate for Apple to segment (e.g. cripple) FCP beyond what they've done with Final Cut Express (Students/Hobbyists/Casual Gearhounds) and FCP for the pros. Now, I can see the logic and benefit of introducing a beefed-up/blessed hardware config, but methinks that could be handled from a 3rd-party standpoint? I dunno, I could see it both ways sometimes...sure beats counting sheep at night. :D

Simon Blackledge

03-02-2007, 08:49 PM

One thing Apple are missing is video in/out. Then they can sell a turnkey soloution. But this will still need all the apps to be intergrated to take on Nitris.

Once they can market a product that is from one source and not 3rd party parts people wil be more confident.

Apple can't market a full soloution at the moment. Once one is in place they have all the other options under that as Avid do.

Sure they need better things like media managers but thats all pretty much in place hardware wise. X-san etc.

They need a full turnkey soloution to take Avid on. I hope it happens.

GlennChan

03-02-2007, 08:54 PM

OEM aja kona's in Discreet Lustre I think.

I thought that Discreet Lustre uses a Nvidia Quadro card with HD-SDI out (and of course DVI out).

It also supposedly has a DVS Centaurus board.

Simon Blackledge

03-02-2007, 09:46 PM

has a 4500sdi also. Thought I read it somewhere Discreet on aja site. Could be wrong though.

GlennChan

03-02-2007, 10:16 PM

The 4500sdi is the model # of the nvidia quadro card?

It might be that only Combustion can use Aja hardware.

Thomas Mathai

03-03-2007, 06:07 PM

I'm really hoping Apple has integrated Final Touch into FCP or at least updated the standalone app. so that it works correctly with FCP. I can get by with Colorista for the time being, but it would be nice to have a really good DI that integrates with FCP, especially if it is cost effective.

I would expect some Final Touch tools to end up in FCP, but I really don't want my NLE to be weighed down with too many extras.

Apple needs to work on the Final Cut Studio integration.

Poi Boy

03-03-2007, 07:14 PM

I think that if apple does an extreme version it will be priced not a lot higher than fpc but will require a high end station configuration that they will be happy to sell you. It will all be a bargain compared to other solutions.
I don't think this will happen till maybe the end of the year; it would make a Hell of a Christmas gift ! (no pun intended)
Aloha
-A

GlennChan

03-03-2007, 08:13 PM

IMO, I don't see Apple doing an extreme version.

A- If they use hardware acceleration, it will probably be off a commodity GPU. A lot of high-end systems are using GPU accleration... Discreet/Autodesk Flame, Mistika are two such systems. These are six-figure systems that use commodity hardware. So I doubt they will be using any expensive custom hardware, since commodity GPUs will suffice.

B- A big part of their business model is to sell in volume instead of making a high margin on each sale. According to their marketing department, Final Cut has sold 500,000 units. They could probably make multiple versions of their software to target the high-end market (i.e. sell cinema tools at a higher price); however, they are probably sacrificing that small amount of money for marketing reasons. If you buy Final Cut Studio, it is the same Final Cut Studio that is being used to cut Hollywood films. They are using their (small) high-end market to prop up the much larger mid and low-end markets.

2- As far as turnkey solutions go, that market is already being serviced by the VAR market (value-added reseller). AFAIK, those VARs are able to offer better support AND price than apple (i.e. they can configure systems with cheaper, better solutions than XSERV RAID).

Poi Boy

03-03-2007, 10:35 PM

Thomas Mathai

03-04-2007, 05:03 AM

Glenn,
I think that my previous post covers your A,B and 2. Apple can hit the high end by selling those 500K users a slightly higher priced software with a slightly more turbo hardware configuration that will do what the other guys six figure systems do. They would easyly sell the volume necessary and have the bragging rights as well, perfect marketing. If you beliaeve in the red model, this should make sense.
Aloha
-A
however, it won't happen at this nab.

What do you get when you spend $500k?

It's more than just software and hardware, it's 24/7 on site support, rock solid performance, industry standard workflow and format support, not just Quicktime.

The people who buy the $500k systems have clients who are willing to pay premium prices for speed and reliability, to get the job done while they wait.

I don't know if Apple wants to deal with a client base this demanding.

There is much more profit in the middle ground, and they can add/update as they please.

It's true that Shake is a high end app, but it already had a loyal user base before Apple bought it.

GlennChan

03-04-2007, 09:19 AM

I know that for SGO Mistika, it's just as buggy as Final Cut. They also don't offer on-site support, and don't offer 24/7 support to customers not in their time zone (Spain). It also doesn't support most Quicktime or AVI codecs (or firewire).

However, it's really really fast. It runs circles around Final Cut... with a $800 gaming video card.

Mark L. Pederson

03-06-2007, 03:55 AM

IBM and Sony have a joint copyright on the "Cell" name as it pertains to CPUs.

Nothing wrong with Cell, it's a great multi-core CPU (available in 3, 7 and 9 core configs right now). It scales very well using multiple Cell processors in a NUMA-style configuration (memory banks are isolated to their respective Cell processors). The Cell on it's own is rather weak compared to a Core 2 series x86 processor or most desktop style CPUs. But as I said, they scale well and have their purpose. They're ideal for embedded applications, like the PS3 or a 3-core Cell would do really well inside a new Samsung refrigerator with built-in DVD player and coffee maker.

I could see Cell being used on video processor boards as maybe a host processor, but it's not going to do the bulk of the actual video processing. If this whole hardware-accelerated FCP Extreme were true, I would look for a custom set of ASICs from TI, Broadcom or nVidia, possibly ATI/AMD. Apple isn't going to re-invent the wheel here and they're probably not going to start from scratch either... there will be an underlying hardware partner like nVidia, AJA or BlueFish helping to at least design the hardware and possibly even supply a good bit of the firmware and software for it.

I agree ... but ...

always tricky to compare processors, even when they are similar -

Cell was designed specifically to speed up image render and SONY is looking to sell these processors to the CGI community -

see page 29 - 3D WORLD MAGAZINE - April 2007 issue

GlennChan

03-06-2007, 05:19 AM

I have little idea what I'm talking about here (hehe), but the raw specs for the cell processor would make it a very good candidate for speeding up image processing. It can do roughly ~200 GFLOPs/sec, which is several times more than a typical Pentium/AMD processor. It's ~100 GLOPs/sec (single precision) if you don't count multiply-adds as two operations.

It can also have the benefit of a high bandwidth memory subsystem, but that depends on what kind of system you stick it in (dual Cell blades have custom hardware).

It's in the same ballpark as GPUs and FPGAs in terms of raw performance. The advantage may be that the Cell is easier to program (or not; depends on what happens on the GPU front with ATI+Nvidia).

Sony has been making many press releases about Cell's possibility in media content creation systems (i.e. possibly like a Discreet Flame?)... although it doesn't seem like they are shipping anything.

2- On a slightly different note, Sony has this really neat image searching system that runs on a Cell workstation. It organizes images based on visual similarity. Very fast and it works pretty well (for a very difficult problem). If you're at NAB, check out the Petasite booth.

Simon Blackledge

03-06-2007, 07:17 AM

Sony tried it with Soccrato... seemed to stop dead in it's tracks.

Jeff Kilgroe

03-06-2007, 08:07 AM

I think the problem with Cell isn't Cell. It's Sony's own marketing department getting ahead of themselves and some of the top brass at Sony buys into their own hype. So they try to make products that just aren't quite do-able yet with the current hardware.

Look at what IBM is doing with Cell... That is far more realistic at this point in time. Embedded AIX and Linux/UNIX applications -- yes, even Cell being used as additional media processors in workstations. One of the most logical and impressive implementations I've seen for Cell thus far have been as media processors for streaming media servers. Think of a media server that can ingest video clips in nearly any format availalbe and stream to any user on the web in any format they desire all on-demand.

Don't get caught up in Sony's GFLOPS numbers, it only tells part of the story. Cell in its current form still has a lot of factors working against it that can cripple it severely. Starting with external bus structure and bandwidth. IBM is working on it and Sony is hyping it up generating investor revenue.