Help needed to build DIY 12 core Windows PC

[Asif Limbada]

I got tired of waiting for the Mac Pro refresh.

Trying to build a windows based editing PC with 12 cores (No RED Rocket) I want the best possible components. Your suggestions would be helpful.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jeff Kilgore is good at this stuff
Jay

[James Kirst]

Supermicro makes really nice hardware IMHO, both motherboards and rackmount/workstation cases. more expensive than some of the other brands, but in my experience a higher build quality and pro features like hot-swappable redundant power supplies and removable drive options etc. www.supermicro.com

[Joseph S.]

I'm about to build a system with this: http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7047/SYS-7047A-T.cfm (around $1150) pre-wired, whisper quiet, etc.

You might as well spend a few more bucks and get the 8 core processors, socket 2011 E5 2600's. Since they just came out, they'll maintain the value for a year or more. You can get 4 sticks of 8GB for around $400 or less. That chassis has 8 hot swap drive bays, so if you grab a 6Gbit raid card you can build yourself 24TB raid zero, or 21TB raid 5, or whatever you prefer.

Good luck.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I got tired of waiting for the Mac Pro refresh.

Trying to build a windows based editing PC with 12 cores (No RED Rocket) I want the best possible components. Your suggestions would be helpful.

Er... Then you're going to be waiting for the PC too if you want the best possible components. HP (or possibly Apple, believe it or not) will be the first to market, of the mainstream workstation vendors, with the new Xeon CPUs. These will ship around mid-April. Apple may ship then, but they also may wait and ship a few months later when the new version of OSX is ready.

Yeah, it seems like we're waiting forever waiting for a new Mac Pro, and we are... But the fact is, Intel hasn't released anything to update to. Or at least not until earlier this month when they finally launched the Sandy Bridge series Xeon-E5 CPUs. They're making their way into the channels now.

If you don't want to gamble on Apple's unknown schedule and guess at their specs, or just want to build a PC, there's a lot of options out there. But as others have pointed out already, SuperMicro makes great stuff. They're almost always my go-to supplier for multi-processor workstation and server motherboards. I'm personally not a fan of their cases, which are decent, but I think there are some better options out there. Although the SuperMicro ones are good and come pre-wired as bare-bones setups and usually have good fans, will save you some time, etc..

Unless you have specific needs that aren't being met with this configuration, the SuperMicro X9DAi motherboard would be my first suggestion. I actually have two of them on order myself -- along with an HP Z820 workstation, which is another option if you want a prebuilt system.

For CPUs, I recommend the new Xeon-E5. Either the 2687 or 2690 models. These are both 8-core models with 20MB L3 cache and 1.6GHz memory bus. The 2690 is 2.9GHz, THE 2687 is slightly faster at 3.1GHz, but consumes a bit more wattage.

Beyond that, it becomes more hazy when trying to recommend other components. As an example, which video card(s) you choose will depend on what software you run most. There are good arguments for picking the new GTX680 (especially the forthcoming 4GB models), but equally compelling arguments for the previous GTX580 w/ 3GB. Or do you need a Quadro? Or can you live without CUDA support, only needing OpenGL and OpenCL... then the new ATI cards look great.

[Asif Limbada]

Thanks, guys.

SuperMicro are the guys to get the motherboard from. I'll wait for e5 Xeon processors that are coming. My Mac pro 2009 is working just fine, but I do need a powerhouse of PC that has lots of PCI express slots if needed to put extra gpu's for 3D work, davinci (Mac pro solution is 2750usd GPU expander, but still), cheaper hardware etc.

The whole "let's get a PC" reason is that, i don't want to be locked in with Apple hardware.

As for GPU which one is better for 3D work.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

NewEgg has most of the Xeon-E5 CPUs in stock today. The 2687 are $1899 each and the $2690 are $2099 each. Motherboard selection is lacking still. ASUS and Tyan also have a few nice looking motherboards, but I still prefer the SuperMicro as they consistently have superior build quality and reliability.

If you want more than the 6 PCIe slots you get with the X9DAi motherboard, SuperMicro has a few options there too, but they're larger boards.

Best graphics card for 3D work is dependent somewhat on which software you will be using. Generally speaking, it's going to be the new GTX680 and I would recommend the upcoming FTW edition from EVGA which comes automatically over-clocked and with 4GB of onboard memory. Should ship next month. Some 3D applications can benefit from a few of the extra features of the Quadro cards, but it's somewhat of a toss-up as to whether or not it's truly worth it. With the Quadro models, you pay quite a bit more and you don't gain performance. What you gain is extra precision and a few specific abilities or other hardware features like a Genlock or sync port. More hardware precision for accelerated line and edge drawing, that sort of thing. If you run Scratch, some of the best options for monitoring is still to use a Quadro card with the SDI output option. CAD or 3D applications that will benefit most from the Quadro are XSI, Maya, SolidWorks, Pro/E, Houdini, and a few others. Some others that don't benefit from the Quadro... ZBrush, Lightwave, Modo, Cinema4D... And like I said, with the Quadro you don't gain performance, but precision. Currently the Quadro 6000 is the king of the hill, but for raw performance it falls short of the new GTX680 card and even short of many of the better GTX580 models out there. A new line of Quadro cards are due out this summer.

Pretty much the only software that will use multiple GPUs is Resolve. And with most current systems a GTX580 as your CUDA GPU is sufficient for most workflows. Double up on it if you need that extra punch at times (so now you're operating with 3 GPUs total). Any beyond that is really pushing it because other points in your system will bottleneck before the GPU-accelerated nodes do.

[John Le]

I'm about to build a system with this: http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7047/SYS-7047A-T.cfm (around $1150) pre-wired, whisper quiet, etc.

You might as well spend a few more bucks and get the 8 core processors, socket 2011 E5 2600's. Since they just came out, they'll maintain the value for a year or more. You can get 4 sticks of 8GB for around $400 or less. That chassis has 8 hot swap drive bays, so if you grab a 6Gbit raid card you can build yourself 24TB raid zero, or 21TB raid 5, or whatever you prefer.

Good luck.

Hi Jospeh,

Which store have found is the cheapest ?

[Asif Limbada]

I went through supermicro.com (http://supermicro.com), I think i will go with X9DAi (http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DAi.cfm) a 4U rackmountable chassis/tower SC743TQ-1200B-SQ (http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/743/SC743TQ-1200-SQ.cfm), probably get a GTX680 card for now.

There are no direct resellers for SuperMicro here in Dubai, any suggestion for a retailer that does international shipping.

Also if is it economical to get previous generation of motherboard and 6 core processors.

Thanks.

[Asif Limbada]

Store...which one? Online would be preferable.

[A_Love]

The supermicro x9dai is a excellent choice motherboard;however, you may also want to check out the EVGA SR-X , which has the 7 PCI-E 3.0
slots. Also on the cpu side the E5 2600 XEON .http://www.evga.com/articles/00668/

[Paul Russell]

Another vote for Supermicro. I'm running a X8DAH with two Xeons and HT offering 24 cores. Lots of PCIe slots for Red Rocket, GT580, sound card etc.

[Joseph S.]

That EVGA SR-X board is definitely one of the sickest new boards out (soon I hope). I built a hackintosh with the Nehalem version last year. Awesome board.

[Asif Limbada]

Cool...but do you guys know a good online store that ships internationally.

Newegg.com - Does APO etc + US Only
TigerDirect.com - Does EU + Americas

I need one that ships to UAE :-(

[Asif Limbada]

any online retailers guys??

[A_Love]

For those wanting to build a new PC System EVGA SR-X Motherboard for consideration orther than Supermicro:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=270-SE-W888-KR&family=Motherboard Family&series=All Motherboards&sw=5

[A_Love]

Asif, perhaps you might want to check NEQX.COM
I've built both Supermicro and EVGA systems, and find them just as good as Newegg.

[Asif Limbada]

NEQX.COM looks nice. Thanks for the awesome find!!

[DJ Meyer]

Went with the Asus Z9PE-D8-WS and the 2687's here and loving it.

[Joseph S.]

DJ Meyer, did you get to mess with any hackintosh stuff yet? I have a thread on reduser with a workstation I built, but slow performance with MacOS. Seems to be a lack of chipset drivers.

Congrats on machine. It would be cool to see a Cinebench CPU result if you had a chance. I got 24.5 on the CPU section with a proper windows 7 install.

[DJ Meyer]

DJ Meyer, did you get to mess with any hackintosh stuff yet? I have a thread on reduser with a workstation I built, but slow performance with MacOS. Seems to be a lack of chipset drivers.

Congrats on machine. It would be cool to see a Cinebench CPU result if you had a chance. I got 24.5 on the CPU section with a proper windows 7 install.

No, using windows 7. First Cinebench run was 26.64. Still tuning.

[Joseph S.]

Sounds like it's running better than mine. I have the 2960 CPU's but I think the supermicro board isn't set right with the factory bios. Can't tune it. Asus is WAY better for that stuff.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the 2960 CPU's burst to 3.8GHz, which is why it was a bit more pricey than the rest. Sucks that I had no luck with MacOS.

Enjoy it man :)

[Joseph S.]

Ha, that CPU you got is better.

Turbo frequency on E5-2690:
3800 MHz (1 core)
3600 MHz (2 or 3 cores)
3400 MHz (4 or 5 cores)
3300 MHz (6 or more cores)


Turbo frequency on E5-2687W
3800 MHz (1 core)
3600 MHz (2 or 3 cores)
3500 MHz (4 or 5 cores)
3400 MHz (6 or more cores)

[DJ Meyer]

Sounds like it's running better than mine. I have the 2960 CPU's but I think the supermicro board isn't set right with the factory bios. Can't tune it. Asus is WAY better for that stuff.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the 2960 CPU's burst to 3.8GHz, which is why it was a bit more pricey than the rest. Sucks that I had no luck with MacOS.





I still find it odd that they'd price the 2690 higher, but they're capitalizing on the "highest performance within 135W TDP" crowd which is mostly the server market.

The main difference is the 31 vs 29 multiplier and the 150W vs 135W TDP.

24.5 sounds about right for Cinebench on the 2690. Keep in mind I'm running the BCLK boosted a bit.

[Joseph S.]

That's great. Lucky you get to do ANYTHING in your BIOS. Supermicro is just locked down to the max.

The only difference I found was this core stepping and 135W vs 150W. Not sure what that is, but I have less (lol). I guess they figure the price on wattage because everything else is the same.

Core stepping 2687WS:
C0 (QB7R)
C1 (SR0GX)
C2 (SR0KG)

Core stepping 2690:
C1 (SR0HA)
C2 (SR0L0)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Ha, that CPU you got is better.

Turbo frequency on E5-2690:
3800 MHz (1 core)
3600 MHz (2 or 3 cores)
3400 MHz (4 or 5 cores)
3300 MHz (6 or more cores)


Turbo frequency on E5-2687W
3800 MHz (1 core)
3600 MHz (2 or 3 cores)
3500 MHz (4 or 5 cores)
3400 MHz (6 or more cores)

Yeah, the 2687W's are "better" and a bit cheaper. Unfortunately, they suck more power and are harder to keep cool under full load. Under minor loads and without engaging turbo, they actually run about 5 degrees cooler than the E5-2690s. HP only sells the z820 workstation with the 2687W's if you buy the liquid cooling option.

My HP Z820 gets delivered tuesday according to FedEx, I'll be at NAB. It is equipped with dual 2687W's. I also have a pair of the 2687W's sitting here waiting for the other workstation parts I've ordered. I'll probably order another pair of them, I was planning on doing the other system as dual 2690s, but other than the 15W per CPU savings and sightly cooler temps under full load, I can't come up with a good reason to go with the 2690s.


Micron hasn't shipped my RAM yet. They are having trouble filling orders as it's slowly trickling off the production line. Still not in a big hurry. But I did find out that the CoolerMaster liquid system I have is not going to be compatible with the sockets on the SuperMicro board. So now I'm figuring out what to do there.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've been hearing lots of complaints about the ASUS Z9PE motherboards. Know a few people who've received DOA units, there's a report of a double-DOA after RMA with the board on Newegg. Personally, I haven't been an ASUS motherboard fan for a rather long time, they let me down big once... Back in the day of building a few dual AMD Opteron workstations and I have a hard time considering anything from them. Had a similar experience with Tyan and so did several others at one point about 8 years ago and they've kinda lost their status in the world of server motherboards. Supermicro do lock down their BIOS with few features. But they're boards are well made and solid performers. Overclocking is fine for tweakers and people with time to micro-manage a system. For larger installations or shipping systems to client locations or whatnot, I go for the Supermicro board every time.

The upcoming EVGA SR-X dual E5 motherboard looks interesting and if it holds up to the SR-2, it could be a winner. But they made some curious choices on that board with the PCIe slots and RAM configuration. Kinda strange.