Angie vs Fuji vs Zeiss vs Canon LW Zooms Salt 2012

[Josh Beadle]

I want to be involved in the first head to head Salty flavor test of:

Angenieux Optimo DP 16-42mm
vs
ARRI / Fujinon Alura 15.5-45mm
vs
Zeiss LWZ.2 15.5-45mm
vs
Canon 15.5-47mm T2.2 (to be announced at NAB)
vs
Arri / Zeiss Master Prime set (for reference standard)

I'll rent the lenses (need some help with connections and discounts here) and provide the studio space and props in San Diego. Need the Olde Salt Talent from LA to work their magic some weekend soon.

edit: updated for upcoming Canon LWZ

[Evin Grant]

Sure, I can provide the 16-42 Angie.
The LWZ.2 shouldn't be too hard to find, the Alura and Canon I'm not so sure about, they're still pretty rare in the wild.

Also it's very important to do the test somewhere with a lens projector, it's the only way to have an objective assessment of an optic independent of the sensor and recording of any particular camera system.

[Josh Beadle]

Evin, let's chat at NAB and get a list of equipment and props needed as well as a date on the books. NAB would be the place to hustle some demo lenses from the vendors. That new Fuji lens pair looks very interesting - has anyone in REDland played with them yet? Should give the Rouge a run - especially since Angie can't fill back orders.

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

Just a suggestion, but maybe add the Red 17-50?

[Blair S. Paulsen]

+1 the RED 17-50 would be a good reference point.

Would be great to have some basis for comparing short zoom options in specific aspects of performance - focus tracking during zooms, operational mechanics, etc.

FWIW I think the next wave will be lenses in this classification that have FIZ motors integrated into the housing and expanded control interfaces with the host camera.

Cheers - #19

[Simon Miya]

The Canon 14.5-60 is not a "lightweight" zoom, it weighs twice as much and is significantly longer physically than the other lenses mentioned.

[Stirling Bancroft]

Also the Optimo 15-40, which I know should look the same as the 16-42 in theory.

[Dave Blackham]

What about the Cooke ?

[Phil Holland]

If this happens where I think it will happen, I'm totally down to help out again.

[Mitch Gross]

You might want to include the new Fuji 19-90 T2.9 Cabrio lightweight lens.

http://blog.abelcine.com/2012/04/09/fujinons-new-19-90-t2-9-cabrio-35pl-zoom-lens/

[Evin Grant]

Indeed, you going to provide us one Mitch? :)

[Mitch Gross]

I think you'll have to talk to Fuji but I'm happy to make the introduction.

[Josh Beadle]

Hey Mitch, You want in as an Official Sponsor? Perks include hanging out with lens testing Rock Stars and their super hot groupies!

Get us hooked up with the fleet of demo lenses and we'll provide Abel with a shameless product placement opportunity that makes Coke on Idol look subtle

[BigLu]

You guys are Animals

Props to you guys for going all out.

[Josh Beadle]

@Big Lu

Got you marked down for Security ; - )

[Evin Grant]

Fujinon provided us an 18-85 for the first SALT so they may remeber me.

[Matthew Duclos]

Hey Josh. Count me in.

[Gary Jones]

If you are talking to Fujinon anyway, you could always get greedy and ask for what is possibly the pinnacle of wide zooms - the Fujinon 14.5-45mm T2.0. It's heavier than the heavy Canon though, so unlike most of the other zooms it has a very different appeal, certainly no steadicam option.

I _think_ a fully rigged Epic with Fujinon beast would be heavier than an F65 with an Angie, but it would probably be close.

[Josh Beadle]

Sooooo . . . would there be any interest in having the Leica Summilux-C prime set as our reference standard? If we can do the test over Memorial Day Weekend (May 26-28) I'll have that set left over from another project I'm doing.

[Evin Grant]

I think those'll do ;)

[Josh Beadle]

Evin,
Rally The Olde Salts: David, Brook, Uhry, Duclos for that weekend. If we do in San Diego I have a guest lodgings for all and a chef wife.

Mitch,
It's on - Show REDuser what Abel can swing to get us the 3 zooms we need on demo (that new Fuji 19-90 would be for extra credit).

[Pawel Achtel]

No need for lens projector if you can shoot SFR charts. I can process them with Imatest and produce MTF charts, calculate CA and distortions and compile objective comparison.

[Erich Ocean]

Fujinon provided us an 18-85 for the first SALT so they may remeber me.

Do you have a link to that test? I'm super interested in that lens.

[Evin Grant]

Sticky at the top of the sub-forum.

[Josh Beadle]

So that's what those things up there are . . . who knew?!?!

[Peter Moretti]

The Primo zooms would be awesome to include, but the mount alone may make it even more of an impossibility than it already would be.

http://www.panavision.com/content/primo-zooms

But the 11:1 is rock star of a lens.

[Josh Beadle]

The Primo zooms would be awesome to include, but the mount alone may make it even more of an impossibility than it already would be.

http://www.panavision.com/content/primo-zooms

But the 11:1 is rock star of a lens.

Anyone out there have a "demo" lead on these?

[Matt Uhry]

Anyone out there have a "demo" lead on these?

I have a PV mount for the Epic ( based on Allstar ) would make side by side testing easy. When were you thinking about doing the tests ? I'm pretty interested in the Canon 30-105 T2.2 ... just announced.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I'd love to help out as long as its not Memorial Day weekend...
Looking forward to the results in any case.

Cheers - #19

[Mitch Gross]

FYI, more lens announcements coming in the next couple of days!!

[Josh Beadle]

@Mitch

IT'S RAINING GLASS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfu54x2WEoA&feature=related

[Josh Beadle]

Any interest in adding the Cooke 15-40mm T2.0 CXX?

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

The Cooke CXX didn't impress me when I compared it to the Cooke S4's and Panchro/i's. It's a good lens, but just didn't deliver on the same level as the primes. Wide angle zooms aren't easy, so I really shouldn't have expected that it did. Also, S4's are one of the best prime lens sets ever, so the comparison bar was quite high. You can add it to your test, as I'd love to see how it compares to others, but it's expensive and rare to find.

[Gary Jones]

Any news on whether or not this test is going ahead?

[Lee Saxon]

Also it's very important to do the test somewhere with a lens projector, it's the only way to have an objective assessment of an optic independent of the sensor and recording of any particular camera system.

I disagree.

I realize that putting them on a camera can bias certain aspects of the results but on the other hand totally subjective commentary (like the SALT results) frustrates me.

For example, in a recent thread one guy who had projected the new Leica's insisted they were the sharpest primes and another claimed they were mediocre. Sigh.

I'd buy a Nikon to PL adapter, stick these lenses on a D800E, shoot raw stills of an ISO 12233 chart, run them through Imatest, and show people a graph of the results. Preferably with multiple copies of each lens to average out sample variation.

[Matthew Duclos]

For example, in a recent thread one guy who had projected the new Leica's insisted they were the sharpest primes and another claimed they were mediocre. Sigh.

I agree with your discontent. The problem is that some people are putting lenses on projectors and commenting on the results but some of those people have no idea what they're looking at on a test projector.
Take EVERY test with a grain of salt.

[Josh Beadle]

Any news on whether or not this test is going ahead?

I have a fully rigged big studio in San Diego with K5600 lights, DSC Lab charts and an Epic. Just need for someone like Mitch/Abel to step up with the new zooms on a weekend loan basis - I'll cover shipping and insurance. We can add the RED zoom in the mix for flavor. Maybe use the Master Primes as a reference standard since we all know what they can do and are a bit more available to rent.

Also need the original SALT Team to conduct the test since this will be my first. I'm good on my end - I'll provide a bunch of stuff if this is a go . . . just need for others to kick it up a notch.

[Mitch Gross]

Throwing down the gauntlet are we?

The lenses that are still in dev. are the property of the manufacturers. It's up to them if they can be used in this manner. And if they are still in dev., then it is improper to test them this way as they can and likely will change. The shipping lenses are either units for sale (can't touch) or units for rental, and to give them away for a weekend is expensive to the point of impossible. It's just not realistic.

[Josh Beadle]

@Mitch
. . . think of it as a amazing marketing and Abel Branding opportunity, not an expense, since RU has more viewers in your target demographic than any other forum on the planet (wink wink). Is there a reduced rental rate available or can you assist with a manf rep introduction so I can hit them up? Would love to do the test but not if it's a $10K project.