REDCINE: BETA Build 82 Released

[Brent@RED]

The REDCINE BETA Build 82 is released on www.red.com/support.

Below are new features and fixes since last revision (Build 74):

REDCINE Release Notes - Build 82

NEW FEATURES:

Multi-part .r3d files now load as a single clip within REDCINE.

Use #R in filename definition will include REEL ID within the filename.

Added ENABLE ALL feature to globally enable all slots in the Library.

Added OLPF Compensation in Color tools.

Added Noise Reduction controls

Added support for multi-segment files [FB 1991]

Use #R in filename to add REEL ID to the filename.

Added ENABLE button in Library to control slot Enable/Disable. Also has an ALL option to Enable/Disable all slots easily.

Added new demosaic code and interface options for OLPF Compensation.

Optimization for REDCODE RAW full 4K decode

NR passes are now multi-processing and more aggressive


FIXES:

Loading a new shot now loads in the currently selected position and shifts all shots to the right. Previously new shots were being added two slots to the left of the currently selected slot.

Rendering with metadata burn-in no longer causes a luma shift in resulting images.

REEL IDs are properly written into DPX headers

Source timecode is now displayed properly

Fixes for reading proper Source timecode

REDCODE RAW decode optimizations

XML export/import now sets handles properly

Fixed luma shift problem with metadata burn-in

Fixes for reading and passing through REEL IDs from/to DPX headers

Fixes for processing to separate folders

Thanks, BC

[M.Halsell]

sweet

[mikeburton]

New build keeps crashing on startup for some odd reason. PC. Mac version works great!

[Corrado Silveri]

Thanks, It's all OK here...

(10.5 - Mac 8core 3.0Ghz - 8Giga RAM)

[Laco Zamba]

New build keeps crashing on startup for some odd reason. PC. Mac version works great!

It crashes if you delete, move or rename R3D files from your last project.
Previous version worked fine in this case.

[Casey Green]

Thanks for the update.

So far, the Full Res modes display only a blue screen, other modes display fine.

MacBook Pro
4K 2:1 Clips

Also, so far, I can't see any changes by using the NR or Sharpen tools. However, since I can't see 1:1 at Full-Res, I just may not be seeing enough detail.

[Kenn Michael]

I'm seeing a difference with the NR, but not with Sharpen.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Mac version here plays fine on the 17 MacBookPro, but crashes on launch on the MacPro QuadCore

[Simon Blackledge]

Sharpen > at 50%

Adjust to say 40 >

scrub clip and Sharpen snaps to either 1% or 0%

Need to reset all to get to 50 again.

MacbookPro ATI

Si


s

[sander kamp]

Crashed on my iMac 2.4 because I moved footage to another location. Works now. Sharpen keeps being set back to 3%

Also is it a known fact that Y offset doesn't work? Keeps outputting something else than is displayed.

[Andrew M.]

I am changing the Details and Sharpen option and I do not see any effect on the preview screen.
Is this change going only to the output file or we should see the effect of this change right on the preview screen.

Also highlight slider in the color menu do not show any change on the screen and on the histogram. All other sliders are working fine showing change on the preview screen and on the histogram.

At full resolution I am getting blank screen and then I have to forward single frame to see it again. Went back to ½ and back to full and I got blue screen and forward single frame doesn’t get the frame back on the screen anymore.

Two core Dell with NVIDIA and XP 32 bit

[Emery Wells]

Im seeing a 40% speed increase when processing at 'full' !!!

Dual Quad 3.0Ghz
ATI Radeon 2600 XT
2Gigs RAM (12 more on the way)

[CaLeipzig]

Crashes at startup - freezed. PC (2.0 Dualcore 2 GB Ram XPSP2)

[MichaelP]

When are we going to see choices for the different DNxHD data rates? Seems you only need to access the QT options already available to every other application so it doesn't seem like a lot of work to do engineering wise...

Michael

[Mark L. Pederson]

When are we going to see choices for the different DNxHD data rates? Seems you only need to access the QT options already available to every other application so it doesn't seem like a lot of work to do engineering wise...

Michael

the QT options for several other codecs would be handy too -

[Levan Bakhia]

like Andrew, I do moving sliders on sharpen, or changing details or NR does not work, no change in picture or histogram. also highlights do not work as well.

???? oh, and by the way, what is Details? what is it supposed to change.

[roryhinds]

crashes on launch on my MacBook Pro 17"

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Im seeing a 40% speed increase when processing at 'full' !!!

Dual Quad 3.0Ghz
ATI Radeon 2600 XT
2Gigs RAM (12 more on the way)

I LIKE THE POSITIVE way ...sharing experience.:biggrin:

[Emery Wells]

like Andrew, I do moving sliders on sharpen, or changing details or NR does not work, no change in picture or histogram. also highlights do not work as well.

???? oh, and by the way, what is Details? what is it supposed to change.

Im seeing sharpening update on screen.

[Andrew M.]

like Andrew, I do moving sliders on sharpen, or changing details or NR does not work, no change in picture or histogram. also highlights do not work as well.

???? oh, and by the way, what is Details? what is it supposed to change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking

Check this article, I think it is what Graeme is up to...

http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~milanfar/TIP_Demosaicing_Final.pdf

Start from page 12 of the document if you don't have time.

[Greg M]

no problems on our MB Pro (latest version).

So far I like what I see...more later.

[Emery Wells]

I LIKE THE POSITIVE way ...sharing experience.:biggrin:

Well when you have been churning through RED footage for 8 days straight, a 40% speed increase is VERY welcomed. Processing in full was not very practical unless you had several beefy machines, but now a couple new Mac Pros can stay on top of an overnight turnaround. For commercials and such, you need that kind of turn around.

I did notice that if you open an old RC project in the latest build, it will only recognize the first 2GB chunk of a multi chunk R3D file. The remaining chunks are there but do not display a picture. RC crashes if they are clicked on.

[Brian D. Goff]

It crashes if you delete, move or rename R3D files from your last project.
Previous version worked fine in this case.

how do you get it to work - were is the pref file?

[Andrew M.]

Im seeing sharpening update on screen.

Does sharpen slider stays on the set value or it resets back to 0 or 3?
Also what view resolution do you use when noticing the sharpening, full or 1/2?

Could you check if Highlight slider shows any change in the frame or histogram in the color menu, please

[Levan Bakhia]

andrew, great link to start from page 12, but do not understand it :*) it is too much technical things for me. So, are you saying that NR, sharpen and details have effect on picture? or not? It looks like it is not working for me.

[Michael Lindsay]

When are we going to see choices for the different DNxHD data rates? Seems you only need to access the QT options already available to every other application so it doesn't seem like a lot of work to do engineering wise...

Michael

Hi Michael

Thanks for your pushing for better integration with Avid.. DNxHD defaults to 185x (25p) on my machine. You?

regards

Michael

[Andrew M.]

andrew, great link to start from page 12, but do not understand it :*) it is too much technical things for me. So, are you saying that NR, sharpen and details have effect on picture? or not? It looks like it is not working for me.

I see NR is showing big difference in screwing up diagonal edges but it is working.
Switch to high detail full res and you should see it.
Details, sharpen, and highlight I can't make it to show any difference.

Sharpen should work on edge enhancement and details should just extrapolate more details out of existing RAW data and here is many ways to do it. I think Graeme is, or will be, using what is out there and some current multi-frame details enhancement algorithms are incredible.

You don't want to use too much of CPU power to enhance details if you don't need it or you want the soft look, do you

[Nick Shaw]

Detail and noise reduction work for me (8-core Mac Pro) sharpen has no effect, and resets to zero when you scrub clips. Effect of the highlight control does not update dynamically - you need to 'give it a kick' by eg adjusting the exposure control. This was the same in 1.0.2 for me, but highlight control updated dynamically in 1.0.1.

A major problem I notice in this version is that it no longer caches to RAM. Previously you could mark a short range (say 24 frames) and loop it at full res high in real time from the RAM cache. Now it decodes fully each time through. Activity monitor shows >700 CPU each time, whereas previously it dropped to <50% on the second run through due to the RAM cache.

Some nice improvements, and some new issues. Overall I'm enjoying watching Redcine evolve.

[Andrew M.]

Nick, have you noticed how edges that are slightly off the vertical line get stairs once you put NR at high or highest setting or even if you use details settings on high?
It do not show up all the time only on some frame and some zoom factors so you have to play a bit.

There is vertical red pipe with the white towels/rags on the Jim shot from the race (frame 2522 at no NR is perfectly smooth.
Try to put NR at high or details at high.

BTW I see changes when I put details on high but only if I make the frame 150% the 4K size. Almost invisible at 100% pixel per pixel.

[Kenn Michael]

Anyone getting a bug where the 'window-burn TC/Reel ID', etc... can't be superimposed over black bar guides? The window burn gets composited behind the guides instead of in front.

EDIT: Disregard.... it's working fine now.

[Patrick Tresch]

When are we going to see choices for the different DNxHD data rates?
Michael

Hello Michael,

I wonder why you need to ouput DNxHD codec as this codec has to be reimported to Avid and therefore recompressed to any AVID codec available?

DNxHD file can't be linked when importing to a project (except of DS Nitris) wouldn't it better that Avid first implement linking (without importing) of DNxHD codec before asking REDCINE to improve their choices for different data rates?

I'm a AVID user (from Xpress to DS) and I find the way Avid handles media a pain......(except DS). And it is incredible that nowadays a codec made by AVID (dnxhd) is not yet recognised by an Avid software without importing?

Thanks for your time.

Patrick:biggrin:

[SF Geek]

I would be happy with this new version if I could actually output video. Perhaps that function should be put into the next version. I have tried three different times with different settings and still get vertical pillars of white as my video.

[Casey Green]

BTW, Does REDCINE build 82 now work properly with QuickTime 7.4?

Those of you who are unaware, visit this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7766

[Greg M]

Update:
Build 82 works fine on all our computers

PC
Dual Quad Core 2.6ghz Xenon
XP SP2
Quadro FX4500


MacBook Pro, 17-inch
4GB 667 DDR2 -
2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

[Simon Blackledge]

7.4 installed here on macbookpro

new Build 82 exporting to prorezHQ fine here.

Proxy playback is alot slower in fcp however.

s

[MichaelP]

DNxHD defaults seem to be different for different formats. In 1080p.23.976 it defaults to DnxHD115.

As far as getting a more efficient workflow based in essence and metadata, two things would have to happen - either RED licenses the DNxHD codecs and wraps then directly as MXF so metadata and media are in Avid format, or RED licenses Avid the RED file format and Avid does the work. In both cases, these avenues were not taken.

But I would still like to get an answer as to when we can get a choice of DNxHD codec data rates - simple question, easy to do, needed by lots of people. Seems to be it would be higher on the priority list.

Michael

[MichaelP]

I wonder why you need to ouput DNxHD codec as this codec has to be reimported to Avid and therefore recompressed to any AVID codec available?
Patrick:biggrin:

Patrick - if you encode to a DNxHD codec using the QuickTime codec, the import does not decompress/recompress unless you choose a different data rate than the one selected. For example, if you were to be able to take .R3D files into RedCine, and output as DNxHD36 - the import of these files is just a copy into the Avid with just a rewrap of the essence as MXF rather than QuickTime.

Michael

[Stacey Spears]

It no longer crashes under 64-bit Vista when I swipe to the right. I still can't load video, but that is OK for now. My log files report new errors, compared to build 74. I will upload to log thread.

On my XPSP2 machine, none of the buttons work. I have not tried to run on this machine before. It is a dual mon setup with the primary monitor being 2560x1600 and the secondary being 1920x1200. The desktop is still visible on the secondary display. I have to use taskman to kill it. I will upload a log file tomorrow when I have access to the machine again. I will also try with build 74 to see if it is a regression or not.

[Ryota Kurata]

Thank you for update.
NR works great!
But Sharpen doesn't work.
I changed the value of Sharpen, but it turns into 0 or 1 or 2 or 3.
It seems that the value of Sharpen displays the value of NR.
NR:Off 0
NR:Low 1
NR:Medium 2
NR:High 3
Sorry my English.
MBP 17" 8600M GT OS 10.4.11 quicktime 7.3.1

[Cüneyt Kaya]

what exactly is NR (under the color settings)? noise reduction? i am not able to see a difference, but i would like to know what should happen.

[Greg M]

Noise Reduction, makes a huge difference here. Try looking in the shadows

[Cüneyt Kaya]

man thanks, i watch for the shadows, but nothing happens, 4k 150 % zoom in, and the highlight tool doesnt affect the histogram.

i will reinstall this build.

[Ryota Kurata]

I tried NR.
Sharpen 0 Detail: Medium NR:Off
Sharpen 3 Detail: Medium NR:High

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1675_1201068137.png
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1675_1201068194.png

[Paul Leeming]

As far as getting a more efficient workflow based in essence and metadata, two things would have to happen - either RED licenses the DNxHD codecs and wraps then directly as MXF so metadata and media are in Avid format, or RED licenses Avid the RED file format and Avid does the work. In both cases, these avenues were not taken.
Why not arrange a zero dollar cost licence swap in that case? Seems that it would be a win-win situation, at least to my eyes.

Paul

[Mick van Rossum, NSC]

Crashes on startup, yes I moved my R3D material, but what now ? Can't test with it.....

Cheers

Mick van rossum

[MichaelP]

Why not arrange a zero dollar cost licence swap in that case? Seems that it would be a win-win situation, at least to my eyes.

Paul

As I said in previous threads, many things were brought up and the outcome is what we have today. I really don't want to bring out everything that was discussed, since we were under NDA.... We were pretty much told that we would be working through the RedCine application - like everyone but Apple and Assimilate.. But I was told that I was going to be impressed with the metadata and how things were going to work in Post... Can't wait! For now, I am waiting for a simple answer to a question of when we will see QT codec choices in RedCine.

Michael

[roryhinds]

anyone know how to get this running as it just keeps crashing on startup for me.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

create a log folder under libary/redcine or remove redcine (everything, the redcine folder under libary/reedcine, too)and install again

[Kjetil Haugen]

What exactly is the difference between detail and sharpening? I understand that with NR you would probably have to sharpen up a bit as it would get pretty blurry and seem out of focus. But what would be the best choice if you hate that sharp look that makes it look DV. Should I up the detail or sharpening? Noticed the default sharpening value was set to 50 now... Any reason?

Also the sharpening value can't be set to 0. It pops up to 3. Is that supposed to happen?

[Rob Worth]

crashes on launch on my MacBook Pro 17"

Crashes on launch on my 15" MacBook Pro. Runs Leopard, with QT 7.4 (is that the problem right there?)

Rob

[Cüneyt Kaya]

QT 7.4 is bad in general for red

[roryhinds]

thanks, its sorted now

[Kjetil Haugen]

Crashes on launch on my 15" MacBook Pro. Runs Leopard, with QT 7.4 (is that the problem right there?)

Rob

I've updated to QT 7.4 (before they said it was bad...) 15" MacBook Pro with leopard here also. Works great so far here. Maybe it has something to do with the project you worked on in the previous build as it's opened on launch. Maybe it's not compatible now. Just a guess.

[Rob Worth]

create a log folder under libary/redcine or remove redcine (everything, the redcine folder under libary/reedcine, too)and install again

That worked!!

Thanks.

Rob

[donatello b]

under the old build i could look at 1 frame of full resolution using 1-1 (pixel)...
on new version of Redcine i'm only seeing black .. using 24" iMac ...

[Till Beckmann]

I have a question, and it might have been answered before...

RedCine starts fine and works great especially with FCP XML to Redcine XML Script (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7718)

but in RedCine the imported r3d files show that they are 24 fps

but the QuickTime wrapper file correctly says it is 25 fps

and after I output everything out of RedCine using QuickTime I end up with a 23,93 file?

am I doing something wrong?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

in redcine, under project settings, set your framerate to 25 fps.

[Till Beckmann]

the framerate in the projet settings is set to 25 fps

so it might have something to do with the xml that i got from the "FCP XML to Redcine XML Script" (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7718).

You are right when I manually import the footage the exported framerate is 25 fps.

sorry about the confusion

[MikeCurtis]

Didn't see it mentioned - what does this mean?

Added support for multi-segment files [FB 1991]

...and more importantly, DO WE HAVE AUDIO SUPPORT IN REDCINE YET?

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I am running build 82 on a PC with WinXP64. The higlight slider doesn't seem to work anymore.

Also, can we import EDLs or XMLs yet?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Now it's my turn to ask for help!

In build 82 - import a bunch of 25fps clips to a 25 fps project - all clips import with 24 fps timebase - how do I change ALL clips at one time to 25 ???

[Rainer Fritz]

try to export an xml from redcine. then open it in texteditor. open the find option (cmd-f) find "<fps> 24" and say in the second bar "replace" with "<fps> 25". try to reimport the xml.

[Nick Shaw]

One thing that seems to have disappeared from build 82 is the ability to apply output scaling to DPX files.

You can scale in the output tab for QuickTime movies, but it is greyed out for DPX. In my experience, output scaling (done in software with a choice of filter) is higher quality than the scaling in the shot tab (done in GPU) so I prefer to generate 2k DPX files on output from a 4k project, but can't do that any more.

8-Core Mac Pro, ATI X1900. Are people with different systems finding the same thing?

[Mark L. Pederson]

try to export an xml from redcine. then open it in texteditor. open the find option (cmd-f) find "<fps> 24" and say in the second bar "replace" with "<fps> 25". try to reimport the xml.

he he

I know I can HACK it - just want them to FIX it - unless I am just missing something -

[Mitch Deoudes]

One thing that seems to have disappeared from build 82 is the ability to apply output scaling to DPX files.

You can scale in the output tab for QuickTime movies, but it is greyed out for DPX.

I know I'm late to the party here - but was this ever resolved?