Shooting in a WWII Sub (18-50 RED Lens)

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

You guys have really helped me with several of my questions-

I have another for you.

We are going to be shooting in a very tight space for this indie feature. We are shooting on a real WWII sub located in dry dock in Mobile. I have been leaning towards shooting with the 18-50mm RED lens. Mainly for budget constraints.

How much is that lens distorting at 18mm? There is hardly any room on that sub, so I feel I need a decent wide angle lens- I like the idea of shooting with primes, but we are going to be on the move, so I do like the idea of having a zoom. I personally think the 18-50 would be good.

what do you guys think?

[arrinick]

T3

Not my first choice for a place that will mostly be lit by practicals (real or fake)

Nick

[StephenMurphy]

I think an 18mm wont be wide enough and the zoom may be too slow. If it was me id carry a set of primes at least as wide as 14mm.

[RedCrosser]

I'm not an expert, but you will need a wider lens. Try renting a 14mm.

The Red 18-50 for general shots should be fine. Haven't used one myself but the street seems to think it's pretty good value.

Good luck and remember that the energy of the moment, the acting etc. is as important as being technically perfect.

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

yeah I agree with you RedCrosser-

So okay- I have not researched this, but lets say I do use a set of primes. If I need them for about 20 days max, what am I looking at for rental?

If I do go to a 14mm, what would I be looking at as far as distortion?

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

arrinick-

I was watching Das Boot, and it does look like a good bit of that was lit with existing light on the ship. What would be your first choice for a good lens if you knew you were going to be in a very tight spot?

How much distortion, if any, would that lens create?

[donatello]

"was watching Das Boot, and it does look like a good bit of that was lit with existing light on the ship."

from what i recall Das Boot was lit .. they made it look like it was existing lighting ..

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

well they did an amazing job. There are so many shots when they are traveling straight through compartments, and I can't see where they had room to install any kind of a light fixture. Pretty amazing.

Some areas in the movie I can see where they would have additional light. However, there are a bunch of shots where they fooled me because it looked like practicals for sure.

[donatello]

it was a set ... they lit it , could mean they built their lighting into the set ...
during pre production the DP could tell the production designer i need to put a light here and they build a practical into the set ...

from the making of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjcLPEmDK2I

[arrinick]

My point was that if you are shooting on a real sub, there isn't anywhere to put lights, So everything is going to have to be a practical or look like one so it can be in the movie. Obviously the close ups can be massaged, but like you said, running down the length of the boat, or even one compartment, you'll see the world, which by the way, I think is pretty kick ass. Also, I don't think an 18mm is too long. The 18 is pretty damn wide, and anything wider than that is going to be all kinds of distorty.

A set of Speeds rents for $300 a day, and most places will do a 3 day week. Not suggesting that you shoot the whole thing wide open, it's nice to have the stop when u need it, and most AC's don't ulra hate working at a 2/2.8 split.

I have the USS Torsk just down the street, I always thought it would be fun to do a sub movie, good luck and have fun.

Cheers,

Nick

[Hans von Sonntag]

Das Boot was shot by Jost Vacano. It's a brilliant film with a great twist: Good boys on a bad mission.

Most of the interior shots were done handheld. As far as I know Jost Vocano operated most of these shots by himself. Tons of practicals in the picture. Brought Wolfgang Petersen to Hollywood and I must say he never shot a movie close to Das Boot. But heck, one film like Das Boot and you've done it...

Get some nice wide angle HighSpeeds. 18mm is pretty wide actually and does still look "natural". It depends on the story. Shorter than 18mm might give you wide shots but distorsion and angle won't fit into a neutral, objective concept of story telling. POV shots with a 14mm will look like the POV of an alien IMHO, but that may be your story...

Hans

PS: In 1981 they had no Ultra or Master Primes but nice old Super Speeds with the funny triangled aperture if I recall correctly... Might be wrong and those apertures were only build into the 16mm Super Speeds.

[10s]

Das Boot is the best sub film of all, so I'd watch the "making of" in the DVD and see if there are any tips.

I've been in a few WWII American subs and they're tight, real tight. I'd suggest you plan on hand held or steadicam (anything that can be small and close to the operator) and use 18mm as your starting place, a 14mm might be better. I agree with someone up there above, use a set of fast & short primes if available.

For lighting you might use "stick ups", those small battery operated flours and place where needed.

Bottom line: try and get the floor plan, search books, etc and find the actual space in inches and mark out on a floor. Factor in gear, periscope, etc. that is in the way and practice with extras and see what it'll be like. If you get the chance, go in the sub ahead of time with a camera and try shooting some test footage. That should answer your questions.

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

I agree, I think it is an amazing film to say the least. I have watched it several times, and I can say that I certainly would not want to be in a sub during the war!!! : )

I did call a couple of places about a 14mm just to see what they would charge to rent for about 20 days, and it looks as though it would come in at around 1000 bucks. Not too bad.. It is a Zeiss Ultra Prime 14mm at T 1.9.

So it may not be a bad idea to have one.

Arrinick- I know the Torsk, in Baltimore right? The USS Drumm (the ship we will be on) is a sister ship to the Torsk. Looks exactly the same. And guess what- they are going to let us flood a lower compartment!!!!! He he.... should be wild!

I have a teaser I will be able to post soon, however, it was not shot on the RED, so I am not sure where I should post it.

I really do appreciate your help guys. Very good suggestions so far, and you all certainly have me thinking.

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

10s,

We just got back from doing that this last weekend. I had my Mark V directors viewfinder- and its widest opening was a 18mm. I am hoping that those settings should match the wide angle of the RED 18mm.. We had our actors block some scenes out, and everything looks to be possible. Not easy- but possible.

I love attempting things that are tough!

[arrinick]

Statusfilms,

I envy you, sounds like a ton of fun. I'm not sure why everyone is convinced because it's a small space, you have to have a super wide angle lens ;-) I've shot in plenty of tight spots and my standard lens compliment has usually covered it. The time I've needed a really wide lens, it's been to get somthing super huge in the movie, Aircraft carrier, enourmous crane etc.

It's still about people right?

Hey, now, if the torsk is a sister ship, you could cheat some night at the dock getting ready to leave shit up here.....hmmmmm.

Good luck,

Nick

[Poi Boy]

Tough but exciting ! 18 red is pretty good, not much distortion. I would rent something wider where nothing else will work but the compromise is distortion. I bet 18 will cover most of your story, assuming it is not about showing the sub itself.
Aloha
-A

[Statusfilms@yahoo.com]

Yeah, I really feel the 18mm might work. I wanted to throw this out to you guys and see what you all thought.

Arrinick- very interesting! The deck on the Torsk is in decent shape still. Not a bad idea. I will run that by the director.

[AquaVideoRed206]

Jonny:

Have you considered the Birger mount? You would have the 10-22 zoom, 14 mm prime, 17 -35 zoom, etc. Also you can use a Canon REBEL, EOS20,30, or 40 to shoot stills that would have the same look as the RED.

I agree, I think it is an amazing film to say the least. I have watched it several times, and I can say that I certainly would not want to be in a sub during the war!!! : )

I did call a couple of places about a 14mm just to see what they would charge to rent for about 20 days, and it looks as though it would come in at around 1000 bucks. Not too bad.. It is a Zeiss Ultra Prime 14mm at T 1.9.

So it may not be a bad idea to have one.

Arrinick- I know the Torsk, in Baltimore right? The USS Drumm (the ship we will be on) is a sister ship to the Torsk. Looks exactly the same. And guess what- they are going to let us flood a lower compartment!!!!! He he.... should be wild!

I have a teaser I will be able to post soon, however, it was not shot on the RED, so I am not sure where I should post it.

I really do appreciate your help guys. Very good suggestions so far, and you all certainly have me thinking.