what if....

[Adrian Correia]

Alrighty - so Mr. Jannard help me out. A big job that I was hoping to use to pay for this camera is about to fall apart. I know it....unfortunately it is the one superpower I know I have - the ability to sense imminent collapse.

So, really, what are the options I have if I have a reservation, but will not be able to pay for the camera when my number is up? Will I be moved to the end of the line, or will my reservation simply be swept away?

My production vehicle is about to die and I will need to take a loan for a new car...thus a business loan is out of the question (my wife will kill me). I am just worried about having to take a pass and losing out on not only the cheaper reservation price, but the intimated benefit reservation holders will get in terms of accessories pricing...

thanks for entertaining this thoroughly uninspiring thread.

Love,

Po-Boy in the CT.

[Jannard]

Let me think about this some before I speak...

Jim

[Adrian Correia]

no problem - thanks for the time Jim

[ericyoung]

Let me think about this some before I speak...

Jim

Hmm. I may end up in a similar position - even considering re-reserving in the new window and cancelling my earlier reservations to give me more time to get the funds, though would hate to give up my titanium Rs :(

Hope that a decision can be made before the new reservation window comes up! If can go to the back of the queue, then no need to cancel and re-reserve. I wait with bated breath...

[Adrian Correia]

It is a sad and lonely position...not at all pleasing

[ericyoung]

"Sighs" :(

[ericyoung]

Hello Jim

[Eyes the calendar] just wondering if you've had a chance to ponder on this, a little, in your overflowing schedule!! :D

Thanks very much!

Eric

[digitalinnovations]

I would love some info on this as well, as I am considering getting in line.

[Matt Setnes]

This is the only negative thing about red that I don't like. Seems to me the reserve is useless unless you can get that amount in the next few months or within the year, and this is the 30 day rule applies. I would like some closure on this soon from the Red Team before reserves close. I know I'll get responses stating "just get it and get your refund if you can't". Well I'd prefer to know the actual rules and limits before I pay for anything.

[digitalinnovations]

So worst case scenario if you can't get the scratch together they refund your money or do you lose it?

[Shawn Bannon]

I'd be happy to trade spots with 321 i'm all the way back at 1034.

[Dominique Grenier]

So worst case scenario if you can't get the scratch together they refund your money or do you lose it?

If you can't pay when the time comes, you get your money back.

[Michael Schrengohst]

RED financing!! Jim, you could make another 10% on all the purchases!!

[Jeremy Neish]

LOL! I'd like some Red financing. I certainly don't have the cash for my Red either, but I'm hoping I can secure financing in time. But I'm not at all looking forward to explaining to various banks the benefits of owning one of the very first Red cameras off the line, whereas "Red Financing" would understand that quite clearly. :)

Jeremy
Red #63

[digitalinnovations]

I gotta agree that RED financing would be a huge plus!

[jbeale]

No question that Red will be a powerful tool... but the likelihood that any given individual(s) has all the various skills needed to *actually make money with it* is a separate issue entirely, and I think that's what the banks or anyone underwriting a loan would have to determine. Not sure how you figure that out.

Take myself for example- I hang out here because I'm fascinated by the technology. I do event video for a living but I don't have a Red on order- I know I could not make that investment pay off with my current or reasonably foreseeable client base.

[Holosynthetic]

financing sucks for people who don't have jobs but large sums of money. Whatever happened to borrowing money for the sake of building credit? I mean I did prove to them I had more then enough to pay them back...

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

[beatniq]

Alrighty - so Mr. Jannard help me out. A big job that I was hoping to use to pay for this camera is about to fall apart. I know it....unfortunately it is the one superpower I know I have - the ability to sense imminent collapse.

So, really, what are the options I have if I have a reservation, but will not be able to pay for the camera when my number is up? Will I be moved to the end of the line, or will my reservation simply be swept away?

My production vehicle is about to die and I will need to take a loan for a new car...thus a business loan is out of the question (my wife will kill me). I am just worried about having to take a pass and losing out on not only the cheaper reservation price, but the intimated benefit reservation holders will get in terms of accessories pricing...

thanks for entertaining this thoroughly uninspiring thread.

Love,

Po-Boy in the CT.

Hey, another CT-ite! I didn't think there were any others on here. That's comforting. :) Where are you? I like and work in Norwalk but I'm always all around Fairfield County.

ps. you can borrow mine if you can't afford yours once it comes up. :)

[Adrian Correia]

that is a very generous offer! Naugatuck, but most of the guys I hang out with are in the Milford/Fairfield area. I shot a feature last year in Norwalk!

[Jannard]

We'll give you 30 days from the time we call your number to get it together. Or refund your money. Best we can do.

Jim

[Appleton]

that's very fair.

[Brook Willard]

I'd be happy to trade spots with 321 i'm all the way back at 1034.Remember, reservations are non-transferrable. That said, there may be ways to work it out between reservation holders [and off the books].

As for the official payment deadlines, thanks for filling us in, Jim.

[peter roehsler]

30 days is absolutely fair, but what if ...
Your bank does not love you anymore and you have to switch.
Your mother-in-law does not love you any more and you have to go for a loan.
Your clients don´t pay on time and you were counting on the money.
Anything unexpected happens and you need some more time to adjust.

Can I suggest an early warning system, like an email `We are now shipping res-no XXX and we estimate your camera will be ready in about xx days´???

peter

[Sanjin Jukic]

Peter,

good idea and to add one more issue about to adjust "IN TIME" with your credit card company the credit card limit that should cover the maximum total amount for the RED ONE (core body) purchase (US $ 16.500+shipping costs).

The best alternative is to ask to WIRE (via IBAN from the EU countries) your money from your bank to dedicated the RED ONE account. You pay some more fee for that but you are sure for the transfer.
http://www.ecbs.org/iban/iban.htm

[digitalinnovations]

That sounds completely fair to me!

[Ronnie Silos]

Here are my thoughts on this. If you reserve and are not able to afford it, don't feel bad. It was still a very good move. You gave it a shot and participated in a historic event. You get all your deposit back. Then, you can rent or if possible - borrow if you have to use it. Unless Jim stops making these and become a collector item, prices for these should go down in time as new versions come out - unless no one wants to sell. I guess at this point, no one will want to sell for a while. Demand will be higher than supply so prices should go up and one might see this on Ebay for 3 times the price. Oh well, I'm no help. Thanks for the 30 days Jim.

[peter roehsler]

Ronnie,

you are absolutely right, but the concept of beeing able to afford something or not will not fully cover this situation. We are speaking of meeting a time-slot of 30 days, which should be enough for almost everybody, as opposed to another wait for xx months. RED is a tool, it will help to create not only better digitally produced films but also income for its owners. It is not a luxury item you buy at whim. I believe I can not afford NOT to buy this camera - for a simple reason: I don´t have the kind of money or projects to invest in SONY HDs, PANASONIC Varicams etc nor can I afford to rent DALSAs or ARRI 20s or PANAVISIONs for my type of production. But RED will enable me to improve my technical standards drastically for some time to come and on a budget which will not be out of my reach. Therefore it will be important to be prepared for this payment. I think many of us don´t have this kind of money lying around and we have to plan our spendings carefully. This period of 30 days certainly helps us a lot, but a warning of some weeks ahead would certainly make things easier ...
peter

[Billy Summers]

Based on this thread, I am curious as to just how many people will NOT be able to afford their Red, when available?

[Brook Willard]

Billy, check your PMs.

[Stephen Williams]

Based on this thread, I am curious as to just how many people will NOT be able to afford their Red, when available?

Hi Billy,

There was a thread on DVXUser where I refered to the reservations as orders! I was surprised how quickly I was corrected!

Stephen

[digitalinnovations]

It is a slippery slope for me personally. I have several projects in the pipeline/negotiations, and if they go through I will be great. But if they fall through (as some projects tend to do) it will be a stretch for me personally. I am scrambling right now to come up with the reservation fee before the cut off.

Does anyone have any idea when the next pre-order or order will be? Just in case I miss this one! And would it be crazy to assume that it may take them months just to fill the existing orders?


Based on this thread, I am curious as to just how many people will NOT be able to afford their Red, when available?

[Sanjin Jukic]

Simply I would not order the RED ONE if I would not be able to pay it at the "very" moment when I did it. That is NOW. For me it means very clear that I have money for that in a full amount on my account right NOW and it is exclusively dedicated only to the RED ONE payment. Also I must be honest to say that I could (at the second ordering) place even more orders for example the lenses but I didn't. I was not sure to have this EXTRA money at the time when the lenses will be delivered. That should be clear again. I do have money for the RED ONE and some accessories but not for the extra PL mount RED lenses. I cannot afford to live in economically uncertain future or to dream about or to order something I would not able to pay later. I do not see any other point. All other acts I consider as a very risky way of doing things. Be aware of this.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Simply I would not order the RED ONE if I would not be able to pay it at the "very" moment when I did it. That is NOW.

That's my point of view as well... Admittedly, there's always unforseen circumstances that could keep me from purchasing when my # comes up. But to put down a reservation without knowing when or how you will be able to pay seems a little silly. I know there's no risk, perhaps that's why there are so many reservations and a large amount of talk about getting funds together in time. I know where my budget sits for RED and where the money is coming from... If my # came up today, I could get my act together and complete the purchase... If that were not the case, I would not have reserved one -- to do so would be in bad faith. I don't like to preach financial advice, but if someone can't afford it now, what makes them think they can afford it in another 3 or 6 months? Granted, if they have a potential job in negotiations now, not related to the RED purchase, that could help pay for it, that's one thing.... But I question the logic of someone reserving one if they have trouble scraping up the reservation fee.

...Which now leads me to another question. What happens to all the serial numbers (seeing how they are pre-assigned) that are not purchased? Do the first group of reservation people get to keep their Titanium R's even if they don't buy the camera? I'm assigned #1110, but let's say 100 reservation holders don't follow through and buy the camera before it's my turn... Do I get offered #1010 or do I still get #1110 and we simply end up with several serial #s that are just never produced? Or are cameras badged with unclaimed serial #s after all reservations are addressed and then sold at the later date? ....I'm just imagining the scenario where a couple hundred collectors-item Titanium R's are out there in the hands of people who didn't buy the camera. Or we end up with 10% or more registration holders that pass when their # comes up...

[digitalinnovations]

It must be nice...

[Ronnie Silos]

I would think that for those who have the Rs, they keep that and get the matching serial number of red One. For those who are unable to buy, they have to return the Ti R to get thier deposit back. So if you have a reservation past the Rs, I would think you may actually get one after all when it's your turn.

I just spoke with my partner who brought up a good point. If you cannot afford this camera now, how are you suppose to buid up from it? Remember, based on your configuration, this could run you up 25, 40, 80k.

[Chris Gearhart]

In order to get your deposit refunded, you have to send in your R. Unclaimed cameras are kept by RED.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So if you have a reservation past the Rs, I would think you may actually get one after all when it's your turn.

So I might get an R after all? Hehe... ;)



I just spoke with my partner who brought up a good point. If you cannot afford this camera now, how are you suppose to buid up from it? Remember, based on your configuration, this could run you up 25, 40, 80k.

My thoughts exactly. We know the body is $17.5K and not much else. I guess we know the intended prices for the two RED lens options and RED DRIVE, which aren't necessary... Well, at least one RED DRIVE is in most situations. But I don't think too many people realize the computing power needed to handle 2K and 4K video. Let alone the costs of backup and archival of what they shoot. Not to mention other accessories and gear needed to build a solid foundation to work with. Anyway, I'm going to leave it at that because I see where this thread is headed... It ain't pretty.

[donatello b]

i think the REDs that are not bought go into a "pool" ..
that pool might be used for demo's , could also be used as loaners in case any REDS go down ? ...
also i think that if there are too many REDs end up in the pool some could be sold to rental houses so more persons have access to RED ...

what percent of the reservations can't come up with the $$ we will not know till RED starts shipping ...

[david farland]

I think a lot of people are missing the point on this one.

Firstly, NAB doesn’t come out and say their event will be held sometime this year…we’ll give you 30 days notice when it’s going to be ! The wife doesn’t say I’m pregnant, thanks for the deposit, it’s coming sometime in the next ten months…..I’ll give you thirty days notice!!! Just be on standby! Imagine the disruption. Hold all your other plans.

Now, RED, as innovators must.

Their marketing plan isn’t (hopefully) we’re shipping a camera in Apr ‘08, place an order now and you’ll definitely receive it then.

It’s…. when we’re ready you’ll have it.

That’s the approach that hopefully will get us a RED camera quickest.

So I guess it all hands to the pumps down at the RED factory.

Trouble with all this uncertainty is, it’s against human nature.

When we plan, we try to get as much information as possible and try to sway the variables to our favour, blah blah… in order to ensure something is going to happen when we want it to.

Some of us work much better knowing it’s definitely the Apr 08. Most of us see the advantage of having a RED camera and want to be an early adopter. Trouble is we don’t know when and that’s what really bothers us.
Add to this RED hasn’t been used in a thousand ‘real life’ shooting situations.
It’s variables/unknowns that don’t easily fit into our hard plans.

This comes with being an early adopter and not someone who walks into WalMart.

How can we put some variables in our favour? I guess the obvious ones are:

Continue to save / invest your money.
Gather knowledge on RED and accessories.
Share or swap your RED camera with other Res holders.
Say to Jim, “please, please can you hold on to my camera until I can afford it”?

Still, I think it all boils down to: 1. Impatience as we can’t begin to experience RED & 2. We can’t begin to make money from RED.

That’s life…damn it!

DF

[Holosynthetic]

someone could make a poll at the top of this thread letting people vote whether or not they could at least pay for it straight up right now just to see the outcome.

[Jeremy Neish]

Based on this thread, I am curious as to just how many people will NOT be able to afford their Red, when available?

I'm about 50/50. I certainly don't have that kind of cash on hand. My business may be able to come up with it if we aren't having cash flow problems at that time, otherwise it's off to the bank. If I'm turned down at the bank, then no camera for me. :(

30 days is understandable, but knowing how slow financing can be, 60 would certainly would have been more comforting. Oh well, fingers crossed.

And for the record, I don't have any specific plans for the camera, I'm buying it because I'm a technology nut. Much like why I bought the first Video Toaster to hit my state. In the end it was a very profitable decision, and I think the same will be true here as well.

Jeremy
Red #63

[Justin Anderson]

In order to get your deposit refunded, you have to send in your R.

but it's shiny. :(