Getting Into Commercials

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I wasn't sure where to post this so I defaulted to the Off Topic forum I love so much :biggrin:

My big question is how do DP's get into shooting commercials? I've done 3 regional spots, but how I got those gigs was a bit of random luck really. I'm curious to hear how some of the DP's on this board got into commercials. Also, I've heard that its hard for a feature DP to get commercial work and vice versa. Is this true? I've always envisioned primarily shooting features and then shooting commercials as my "bread and butter" type work, you know, to fill in the gaps or so to speak, but I'm not sure that its really possible.

[Obin Olson]

I think the first thing is you must be really really good. THen you gotta hang out with people that can and will hire you. 3rd you need to market yourself, show em your stuff...

[Chris Nuzzaco]

THen you gotta hang out with people that can and will hire you.

This is the part I'm having a hard time with. I'm confident in my skills, and my ability to show off the work (all of my work to date has been directly related to people seeing my demo reel, and that includes my 3 Court TV spots), but finding people who shoot commercials isn't as easy. Keep in mind, I live near Washington DC... of all places.

[Bruce Allen]

Chris, here's my 2c:

Finally, here are my notes on your website:

1. REEL should be first and foremost. Don't make me click on Gallery, then Film & TV. I'd never know you had a reel then...

2. Your reel takes too long to get going.

3. Everything in your reel is locked off shots. Personally I like locked off shots but I know a bunch of people are seduced by the dolly / jib ;) Maybe stick some of that in.

4. Something is screwy with the aspect ratio of your reel. I think you are not taking into account the ol' 0.9 vs square pixels thing? Everything looks vertically squashed by 10% to me...

5. More amazing shots needed. Your photography gallery is nice. If your reel looked like your photography gallery, but moving in slow motion, you'd be getting a stack of calls, I bet.

Okay, now, once you make your reel kick ass a little more, you need to scour the area like a madman for local production companies / producers / directors / agencies and sent them your nicely-packaged reel, etc.

Maybe next I'd say try to make personal contact with people - find out the local events, etc. Not just the high-up people, they're probably a little inaccessible to you. Try to figure out who the up-and-coming people are. In LA the whole theory is to make friends with the bright people in the mail room - in 5 years' time some of them will be in positions of power ;)

If you aren't getting any luck then you need to do more spec stuff. It will serve the dual purpose of improving your network and also you might get more diversity of kick-ass work on your reel.

Try to do spec stuff for people who look like they might be in a position to help you get paying jobs later.

Although it's weird how that happens. Sometimes you're doing a spec for someone big and you never hear from them again. Or you're doing something really low budget and suddenly one of the PAs has a well-budgeted shoot they hook you up with.

Cheers and good luck!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Hans von Sonntag]

Hi Chris,

I never shot commercials for the US industrie but I assume it's everywhere the same.

Hopefully you are young... Young chaps get a chance, the industrie loves young flesh. If you are trendy, selfconfident, visionary and got a funny, modern showreel with a lot of zeitgeist you will get into it, assumed you live where tons of commercial filmproductions are. Otherwise you have to move.

For a DP it's clever to work with a young director who is already on the go. Commercial work is a lot about vision and not much about technical matters. No one cares which lens on which camera you used. The style and look is what they are after.

There are many fields in the commercial world: people, storytelling, packshots, kids, pets you name it. DPs and directors tend to get sorted into one or the other field.

Dont't worry if they say: your lighting is nice but since you haven't shot pets yet we doubt you've got fur competence which we really need for this great storyboard. There are zillions of excuses not to work with you but also there are zillions of illogical reasons to work with you...

If you have got ambitions towards directing that's even better since many lowbudget boards need a director/DP.

Remember that a priest never becomes bishop in the same country...


Hans

[Chris Nuzzaco]

3. Everything in your reel is locked off shots. Personally I like locked off shots but I know a bunch of people are seduced by the dolly / jib ;) Maybe stick some of that in.

4. Something is screwy with the aspect ratio of your reel. I think you are not taking into account the ol' 0.9 vs square pixels thing? Everything looks vertically squashed by 10% to me...

5. More amazing shots needed. Your photography gallery is nice. If your reel looked like your photography gallery, but moving in slow motion, you'd be getting a stack of calls, I bet.


Thanks for the tips! I'm not sure what you mean about #4 though, it looks fine on every monitor I've ever seen it on. It's a 16:9 aspect ratio using square pixels (all footage is set to square pixels as well).

I know what you mean by amazing shots, I'm actually slowly turning my photography gallery into motion as it were.... Thats one of the troublesome things about only ever shooting narrative stuff, not every narrative demands super flashy looking lighting, so I've been slowly shooting my own little clips here and there to try and fill in that gap, but not just single shots, mini montages rather. I think its important to see an ability to match different shots seamlessly. It's also hard to produce the really slick photos I've taken on a narrative film shoot as well due to time, budget, etc.. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I have wondered about the reels pacing being too slow, thanks for confirming it, I'm gonna re-edit and put that little logo card at the end, and maybe just leap into the reel. Faster song perhaps?

I have considered putting my reel front and center on the site, I think I'll look into that one. I monitor my sites traffic, and it gets the second highest number of hits, but maybe I can get more if I make a few changes :)

Thanks!

[Lexicon]

This is the part I'm having a hard time with. I'm confident in my skills, and my ability to show off the work (all of my work to date has been directly related to people seeing my demo reel, and that includes my 3 Court TV spots), but finding people who shoot commercials isn't as easy. Keep in mind, I live near Washington DC... of all places.

You're in the wrong location if you want to get in on real commercial work. It's just car dealership and small business ads around here. The occasional government spot. That stuff is all shot on low-end prosumer/news camcorder gear and it's done quick and dirty with no finesse or "money shots". If you can slide your way into one of the few feature productions that comes through every so often, consider yourself lucky, but you're definitely not in a position to get any serious commercial work around here. There's a small indie filmmaker community made up of people who shoot much of what is shot around here but I've honestly seen nothing but self-indulgent crap coming from them.

[donatello b]

somebody is doing commercials in/near the DC area ...
find out which company's are doing them and make personal contact ...
if helps if you have spots on your reel ...
i know several cameraman that worked their way up thru special effects/animation houses ... they got to work on pieces of spots/projects and that helps build the reel ... sometimes these houses will shoot the whole spot and there might be a live action section that the house DP will shoot - it takes time - might take 2 years to build a decent reel ...
Producer/Directors tend to pass names along to each other vs. looking at reels sent into to them ... you send a reel in it will probably sit for long time ... if you meant somebody at the company or have a friend that know somebody that will usually get your reel viewed ...
gotta network ...

[Dominic Cochran]

Try to do spec stuff for people who look like they might be in a position to help you get paying jobs later.




IMO this is the most valuable advice in the thread.

And now it's way more likely to get this done since you can shoot on RED instead of 35 for this spec work.

[Greg Greene]

maybe we can get a RED Business section ?

g

[Nick Gardner]

Hi Chris,

The one thing no one has mentioned here is that to even be considered on any kind of real spot you need to be Local 600. It is a very difficult field to break into.

Cheers,
Nick

[Finner]

Hi Chris,

The one thing no one has mentioned here is that to even be considered on any kind of real spot you need to be Local 600. It is a very difficult field to break into.

Cheers,
Nick

No you don't. There are tons of top commercial and music video DP's that are not IATSE.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the tips and suggestions thus far. DC is certainly a weird market. I won't say it doesn't exist, it does, its just really small. I suppose the upside is that you don't find too many guys like me in the DC area who are concentrating full time on this type of work. The competition is small in terms of people, but when you consider the number of gigs available that actually pay and are professional, the competition is suddenly tight again.

Maybe I'm just a little frustrated and venting online, but it sometimes feels like I live and work in a vacuum. Does anyone know anything about the Richmond area? I've heard that Richmond VA is quite an ad town, but I haven't really been able to verify this yet.

I have actually shot one spec spot so far, featuring the voice of MCI (if you use MCI, you know what lady I'm talking about). As for how I got my 3 court TV spots (they were promos for several popular court TV shows in the US, think "Judge Judy")... I once posted a crewing ad all over the big film list serves in the area, as well as craigslist (it can't hurt right?) and a guy who knew a director saw my ad and went to my website. He saw my reel and was impressed by it, and even better, I was relatively local (we shot around Baltimore). He sent my reel to the director and the director hired me. It was a combination of two things really, 1.) luck and 2.) being prepared for that lucky moment. I guess living in DC means needing a whole bunch of #1!

One question I haven't gotten much insight into yet is about shooting both features and commercials. Is this ever done? I hear so much about "commercial DPs" and "music video DPs", is it uncommon to shoot both features and commercials? I suppose commercial people and feature people run in different circles....

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Hopefully you are young... Young chaps get a chance, the industrie loves young flesh.


I do certainly have youth on my side... young, healthy, and unattached (and happily not in debt). I'm using those for all their worth!

[Bruce Allen]

It's not uncommon at all for feature DPs to do commercials during downtime.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Matt Gottshalk]

I do certainly have youth on my side... young, healthy, and unattached (and happily not in debt). I'm using those for all their worth!

I can vouch for this...Chris looks like he hardly is old enough to SHAVE! :bleh:

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I can vouch for this...Chris looks like he hardly is old enough to SHAVE! :bleh:

LOL... Are you going to the VA State of the Industry Expo next week? I'm going to have a both setup at it.

[Matthew Bennett]

Chris,

I was reading an interview with a DP named Chris Soos not too long ago, he was saying some interesting things about DP reels. He said that a good reel is full of interesting and unique camera movement. he also said that anyone can light well.. its not rocket science and it doesn;t impress production companies as much as you'd think..
You should search cinematography.com for the link to that interview its actually really inspiring. Once you read it you'll understand why innovative camera-movers like Matthew Libatique get jobs quickly while others that can only light stay in the same place...
seriously look it up.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I do have some jib shots laying around... I guess I'll start throwing them into the mix, and a few dolly moves as well. I don't however agree with the idea that anyone can light well. Thats a bit far in my book, if it were true, everyone would have Oscar winning demo reels.

[Matthew Bennett]

I dug up the interview Chris...

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=26920

Scroll a bit down the page, its pasted into the thread. I often think of things from this interview when it comes time to thinking about my own reel.

It's not my place to try to 'push' you to greatness or anything like that, but I think a good move for you would be to really expand your idea of interesting and Unique camera movement... everyone has a dolly or a jib, right? Everyone has cranes, circle tracks... etc.
If you want to have a chance of being competitive i think you have to start inventing stuff... I think if you have 10 different camera moves that are completely unique, on your reel, you would become very interesting to production houses...
Just my opinion..

[Matthew Bennett]

Here's a direct quote:

Chris Soos:

Put together a reel of extremely original, full of attitude, edgy, subtle/extreme images, something with unique camera movement. As long as its something interesting and different that catches the eye of someone at a production company, no matter how small the budget, no matter where it's from, no matter what language, whatever the quality, 1/2 or Digi Beta-- it doesn't matter.. Production companies, directors, producers, are always looking for interesting people, not boring people. Boring people are a dime-a-dozen, particularly in Hollywood. What's not interesting is a show reel full of boring dull commercials and generic music videos.

Proving you can light doesn't mean shit. First of all, lighting is easy; it's not rocket science. If good lighting and smooth camera work sparked interest in show reels, the industry masses would probably be populated by gaffers, they work harder than DPs anyway, but it's not the case. Remember, lighting is easy and practice makes perfect, so breaking into the craft is simple. A basic digital camera and 35mm SLR, as well as all those how-to books out there, make it pretty easy to figure out the basics.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I actually don't have any jib or dolly gear :(

But.... I do have a friend with a real steadicam (think 20 grand steadicam)! I actually got it working with my Andromeda. The trouble though is getting good shots out of it. Steadicam is a serious skill. Till I can find a good way of moving my camera, I just gotta stick with really really nice lighting, interesting compositions, etc... I did read the interview by the way, very interesting stuff.

[Yannick Hagman]

I actually don't have any jib or dolly gear :(

Same here. :)

What is the commercials town in the States?

[Paris Remillard]

One question I haven't gotten much insight into yet is about shooting both features and commercials. Is this ever done? I hear so much about "commercial DPs" and "music video DPs", is it uncommon to shoot both features and commercials? I suppose commercial people and feature people run in different circles....

A friend of mine is a very much working music video and commercial director and he works with Matthew Libatique a lot. So, I don't think that people are necessarily "type cast" as one or the other.

[Chris Nuzzaco]

Same here. :)

What is the commercials town in the States?

Funny you ask, thats basically what I'm trying to figure out with this post :)

I have heard Richmond VA is an ad town. I heard this from an older photographer at one of northern VA's biggest photo equipment suppliers. It might only pertain to print ads though. It's just hear say though...

[Paris Remillard]

What is the commercials town in the States?

New York and L.A.