Scarlet to compete with Sony CineAlta F23 ?

[GiBi]

All the specs everybody is expecting from Scarlet could make it an alternative even to the Sony CineAlta F23:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/sony-intros-cinealta-f23-highend-hd-camera-for-pro-filmmakers-221786.php

I know that this camera precie point should be more a competitor very pricey (More than 120k dollars) to the RED ONE but the specs make thing... if so really RED is changing every parameter here...

help me :usd:

GiBi

[Graeme Nattress]

But the big question is can you fit an F23 in your pocket? :-) And if so, what kind of jacket do you need to be wearing?

[GiBi]

For sure will be a totally different beast

Really what I was wondering... if in terms of image quality we really can imagine something going closer to those cameras or something well under that.

Maybe we have just to wait ;-)

Ciao

[Jeremy Hughes]

And I'm guessing nobody will be calling Scarlet a monster.

[GiBi]

And I hope Scarlet will help me drop my shootgun so they will not call me again a killer. :biggrin:

[Mitch Gross]

I would say it is more a competitor to the Silicon Imaging Mini.

[GiBi]

Is this a niche application camera?

I was thinking at Scarlet more as a lower-priced, lower featured and compact RED ONE for the indi cinema market that todays uses 35mm optics adapters and HD camera.

This is, by the way, my need.

[Christian Edwards]

maybe i could take scarlet on my family picnic

[Finner]

All the specs everybody is expecting from Scarlet could make it an alternative even to the Sony CineAlta F23:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/sony-intros-cinealta-f23-highend-hd-camera-for-pro-filmmakers-221786.php

I know that this camera precie point should be more a competitor very pricey (More than 120k dollars) to the RED ONE but the specs make thing... if so really RED is changing every parameter here...

help me :usd:

GiBi

In a head to head test the red got its ass handed to it by the F23! Now all of a sudden the scarlet is going to compete with the f23?????? I don't think so.

[Noah Kadner]

Also no fixed lens camera is ever going to beat the optics quality on the F23. Let's keep it real please...

Noah

[John Wee]

If scarlet can fit in my pocket and uses a fixed lens, I am out.

[Andrew Hewlett]

In a head to head test the red got its ass handed to it by the F23! Now all of a sudden the scarlet is going to compete with the f23?????? I don't think so.

Do you have any links that might pertain to this "ass handing"? It would be great to read about a comparison of a $17000 4K camera with an unpriced (but probably outrageously priced) 1080P camera. Its hard to tell from just reading spec what does better.

[Jaron Berman]

The problem with comparisons against RED is that RED is a moving target. You could read whatever you want about head to head tests, but until RED is fully enabled, these comparisons are pretty useless if you're trying to crown a "winner" overall. The F23 has more dynamic range and a lot more reliability this week, but who knows what will happen with RED in the coming weeks. Eventually, RED will be reliable enough for A-cam usage, and eventually (hopefully) the gremlins holding the picture back will disappear. Hopefully.

And in person, the picture from the F23 is pretty incredible color and dynamic-range wise. It's beyond anything I've seen from an electronic camera.

[Finner]

Do you have any links that might pertain to this "ass handing"? It would be great to read about a comparison of a $17000 4K camera with an unpriced (but probably outrageously priced) 1080P camera. Its hard to tell from just reading spec what does better.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6503

Read this Thread it will explain a lot.

Pretty much a few of the complete "IDIOTS" that are here could not take hearing the truth so Claudio pulled his findings and still images of the test.

The red was indeed outperformed.

[GiBi]

In a head to head test the red got its ass handed to it by the F23! Now all of a sudden the scarlet is going to compete with the f23?????? I don't think so.

Ok interesting!

Do you have a direct link for this test?

From the beginning I have seen RED as a very very nice opportunity / evolution but I can not see the "massive revolution" the buzz everybody is talking about.

With Sony and the others R&D and know-how for me it was difficult to understand such a giant leap, or a leap impossible to cover with such resources behind.


So the bottom line is always that. Make the best product in a price range and try to update it to keep it competitive.

We will see!

GiBi

PS: Got my provocation? :innocent:

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6503

Read this Thread it will explain a lot.

Pretty much a few of the complete "IDIOTS" that are here could not take hearing the truth so Claudio pulled his findings and still images of the test.

The red was indeed outperformed.


Probably Claudio pulled his test because of the complete "IDIOTS" :) .

And the complete "IDIOTS" and "politics" go together :).

He pulled the test because it was not accurate done and "too political" comparison.

What was about he explained here (http://www.claudiomiranda.com/redvsf23/redvsf23.html).

[RicanJoe]

Probably Claudio pulled his test because of the complete "IDIOTS" :) .

And the complete "IDIOTS" and "politics" go together :).

He pulled the test because it was not accurate done and "too political" comparison.

What was about he explained here (http://www.claudiomiranda.com/redvsf23/redvsf23.html).

Or maybe cause Jim pulled his belt off..:biggrin:

[Finner]

Probably Claudio pulled his test because of the complete "IDIOTS" :) .

And the complete "IDIOTS" and "politics" go together :).

He pulled the test because it was not accurate done and "too political" comparison.

What was about he explained here (http://www.claudiomiranda.com/redvsf23/redvsf23.html).

Claudio did the test accurately and well. Jim even said himself that the test was done right. Claudio even had to fix the wrongly collimated PL mounts red sent him. They were wrongly collimated by red on the first test so that test was no good. Then when red supplied Claudio with a different camera the next week they again sent him a wrongly collimated camera except this time he caught it and had technicians fix the problem before the test so that test was fine.

I was not going to come out and point fingers sanjin but you must be drunk 99% of the time you are here because you add nothing to this forum. Everyone wishes you would leave. You and bassamalate with your uneducated rants and calling down of Claudios character were the reason he left and pulled the test. The test was done right and the F23 beat the red. You just are way to clueless to realize it. The "political" reason for pulling the test was YOU sanjin, are you really to dense to comprehend that?

[Andrew Hewlett]

Well both cameras have their PROs and CONs. One pro for the Red One is I can afford it and use it on a production with excellent results. The F23 on the other hand might be harder to get my hands on and the PROs of the F23 do not imperially out weigh the CONs of the RED. I don't think anyone including Claudio stated it was an ass kicking/handling. They are both very different beasts. Personally I'd put my money behind a Red, cause its an attainable camera and usable for my productions.

As for Scarlet...I don't think its meant to compete with the F23, I think thats big brother's job.

[Finner]

Well both cameras have their PROs and CONs. One pro for the Red One is I can afford it and use it on a production with excellent results. The F23 on the other hand might be harder to get my hands on

I agree 100% and that is why I am getting a red. It is really the smarter decision.


I don't think anyone including Claudio stated it was an ass kicking/handling.

You call it what you want but being beat by 2.5 stops or more of DR, I know what I call it.



They are both very different beasts.

How are they really so different? They both are high end digital cameras that create moving images. Sure the f23 is a lot more expensive but when you break it down they are both trying to achieve high end cine/brodcast images so in my books they are very close.

Don't get me wrong I love the red and think it is great I just never expected it to beat the F23 and think it did very well to even be able to compete with it. The f23 is a very good very expensive camera, is it worth all the extra $$$$ not to me.


As for Scarlet...I don't think its meant to compete with the F23, I think thats big brother's job.
Agreed

[Andrew Hewlett]

I agree 100% and that is why I am getting a red. It is really the smarter decision.



You call it what you want but being beat by 2.5 stops or more of DR, I know what I call it.




How are they really so different? They both are high end digital cameras that create moving images. Sure the f23 is a lot more expensive but when you break it down they are both trying to achieve high end cine/brodcast images so in my books they are very close.

Don't get me wrong I love the red and think it is great I just never expected it to beat the F23 and think it did very well to even be able to compete with it. The f23 is a very good very expensive camera, is it worth all the extra $$$$ not to me.


Agreed

I agree with what you're saying, but my argument with them being different beasts is due to Cinealta being an established cinema camera line from a company that has years in the game releasing a camera and then comparing it to Red One which is still in beta status from a young company thats only released one camera aimed at making it modular and able to grow through its life span. I also think we need to look at where Red is headed and what Sony has delivered. I think Red is messing with people's heads and stepping on "established" toes.

[LighthouseMEdia]

Finner,
This may be one of the fewer times I agree wholeheartedly with you. Somewhere in this process people have lost the ability to be objective about things.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I was not going to come out and point fingers sanjin but you must be drunk 99% of the time you are here because you add nothing to this forum. Everyone wishes you would leave. You and bassamalate with your uneducated rants and calling down of Claudios character were the reason he left and pulled the test. The test was done right and the F23 beat the red. You just are way to clueless to realize it. The "political" reason for pulling the test was YOU sanjin, are you really to dense to comprehend that?

Finner if somebody would read your writings here about me could maybe conclude that you are obviously not a civilly polite and educated person.

You cannot use the facts properly and even to write the names with the (C)apitals.

Could be that you deal with sort of a bigotry and hate.

Sorry to say that but that's my first impression about you.

Hope I'm wrong here.

[Andrew Hewlett]

Lets leave the personal stuff at the door. I think its all too silly to play a "this is better than that" game. The real question we all need to answer is, can we use the tool given to its best use. For me, I know I can't, yet...for me its no use to own a Ferrari when I still can't park my Saturn without hitting the parking curb.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yup, let's keep things factual, and not get into personal stuff. RED, and all of you, have built a nice community here. Let's keep it that way - helpful, factual and friendly.

Graeme

[Adam Ings]

This stuff is classic!

Anyone want an argument about George Foreman grills? I'll fight you all.

I'm willing to put my new iGrill up against any of your inferior Tefal products.

Seriously chaps, it's only a lump of metal with some circuit boards and glass inside. Yes, it's very exciting for us geeks. But to rant and rave at people about this thing is silly.

I'm drunk.

[Kreisky]

Jim please fix this bevore people get hurt !
What is it ? Say a Number ! 2 or 4 or F23 !
you can say 3 instead of 2 and 5 instead of 4.
give us a hint men. some quiz or something !
pleaze

[Kreisky]

@Sanjin
Scheiss auf die trotteln Sanjin, mach dein ding !

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hoffentlich Kreisky Ära in Österreich ist längst fertig :biggrin: .

[Kreisky]

genossen gibts immer noch sanjin !
Kreisky ära ist zwar zuende, aber 2008 könntest du eine neue einleiten.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hallo und herzlich Willkommen im neuen Jahr 2008, liebe Kreisky :bleh: :) .

[skarz]

spreche nicht Deutch.

this thread in English please make the effort or i goona speak french too!!

petit bonjour à tous les amoureux de la RED!et à tous les africains dans la place!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

OK.

Bonjour Madagascar. (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=135570600)

[Jeff Brue]

Have to chime in here, as I severely doubt many of you have seen Red vs F23 in a professional DI bay (where you can actually tell what the differences are). Reg gives an F23 a run for its money (forgive the pun). However in all of our testing the F23 is showing more dynamic range than the latest camera build. Of course that could all very easily change with an updated firmware.

We have both and we really like both, but saying a camera with a fixed lens on a 1/3rd chip is going to whip even sony's new EX1 well... if you can put it up in a DI bay and see for yourself :-)

Also on a seperate note, marketable films get graded just like a term paper, and digital hits, noise, and over compression can cause the price tag of your film to drop like a stone.

[Omnius]

All the specs everybody is expecting from Scarlet could make it an alternative even to the Sony CineAlta F23

Oh My.

Then what does that make the RED ONE in comparison?

[killfilm]

but sony wouldnt like it very much if scarlet was competition:shifty:

[Joseph Hutson]

I believe it already will be.

[sparkhope]

I believe it already will be.

Scarlet, competition for pros? Doubt it. It may be used for some unconventional shoots (a high flying fight or maybe skateboard cam or even a "doggy" cam) but not as the A camera. I'm starting to wonder how much more Graeme and co. can squeeze out of this camera. Can we really expect 2 more stops? What about the jello footage is that being addressed at all?

[killfilm]

after reading up on the f23, my conclusion

-If scarlet has 35mm DOF
-and a nice dynamic range
-4:4:4 sampling at 2k res

then you can say: What is an F23? Isnt that a race car?

[Finner]

after reading up on the f23, my conclusion

-If scarlet has 35mm DOF
-and a nice dynamic range
-4:4:4 sampling at 2k res

then you can say: What is an F23? Isnt that a race car?

Are all of you smokin skunk bud in here? If scarlet is going to be better then the F23 then I want one really bad and will not take delivery of my red one because it would mean the scarlet is a better camera.

Head to head tests of the F23 and red one have already taken place by an A-List DP and the F23 was the clear winner.

[SF Geek]

Wow. This thread really solidifies why I don't look in the scarlet forum. But this header was just too much.

[Ethan Cooper]

Head to head tests of the F23 and red one have already taken place by an A-List DP and the F23 was the clear winner.

Yeah, I don't get all the talk in here either. Guys, listen please. Red stated that Scarlet would not compete with the Red One in any way and the Red One (at it's current firmware build) has been proven to be a step behind the F23 in most areas but price and resolution. How is it that you can deduce that Scarlet will compete with the F23? It more likely will compete with the EX1 and that range of camera.
________
Sterling heights assembly (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Sterling_Heights_Assembly)

[killfilm]

Are all of you smokin skunk bud in here? If scarlet is going to be better then the F23 then I want one really bad and will not take delivery of my red one because it would mean the scarlet is a better camera.

Head to head tests of the F23 and red one have already taken place by an A-List DP and the F23 was the clear winner.

But then again, red owners get priority of the scarlet, maybe they want you guys to be happy first.