<Suggestion> RAM Buffer.

[Andreas Fernbrant]

As I wrote in another thread I would like to bring my suggestion up for discussion again.

My suggestion is a RAM buffer that could be plugged in to the same port as the RAW or Flash unit.
RED One records the data to ordinary RAM memory when the memory is filled it dumps the data in
a slower rate to the RED-Drive. This would enable a burst of 2K 120FPS to be used without a RAID or
a big fridge of hardware.

It's not that often you need to record 120fps for a longer period of time and a burst mode would work
in most of the slow motion situations I could think of.

Is this feature possible or did I disregard some information?
Is this somthing the RED team would do or is this a fature left for the 3rd parties?

Kind Regards
/A

[Evin Grant]

Seems like a job better suited to Red Ram/flash.

[Chris Gearhart]

Seems like a job better suited to Red Ram/flash.

Sounds like a new comic book superhero.


Interesting idea, though. Seems like it should work in theory.

[Andreas Fernbrant]

RED-RAM still in development?
I got the feeling the RED-RAM was dropped?
Is this the intended function of the RED-RAM?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I was thinking RED RAM / RED FLASH were the same thing, maybe not. Anyway, a RAM capture system like Andreas suggests shouldn't be too difficult. It would definitely require a battery system of its own, possibly even a DC power brick. ...Although, I think the FLASH module could handle this very application if/when FLASH speeds can brought up to snuff. RAM might be a good interim solution though for a 4K or 2K RAW burst ability at high FPS. 16GB of RAM would give about 18 seconds of 4K RAW uncompressed record ability.

[Rocco Schult]

according to my talk on the IBC last year thats exactly what they intend to do to keep it reasonably priced. The big stuff is way too expensive.
Record to RAM for this or that amount of time (whatever resolution and RAM-pricing at that time allow for RED to build-in) and after the shot dump it to disk.
So no 14-disk raid to get the minimum sustained data rate, just ram.
Don't forget the UPS though.
Better not be in that one situation: "We made it, that was THAT shot! Hey - who switched off the lights ?"

[Mike the beginner]

As I wrote in another thread I would like to bring my suggestion up for discussion again.

My suggestion is a RAM buffer that could be plugged in to the same port as the RAW or Flash unit.
RED One records the data to ordinary RAM memory when the memory is filled it dumps the data in
a slower rate to the RED-Drive. This would enable a burst of 2K 120FPS to be used without a RAID or
a big fridge of hardware.

It's not that often you need to record 120fps for a longer period of time and a burst mode would work
in most of the slow motion situations I could think of.

Is this feature possible or did I disregard some information?
Is this somthing the RED team would do or is this a fature left for the 3rd parties?

Kind Regards
/A

Pleased you have brought this up for discussion again. I have harped on about this for some time now when we were all over at DVXuser. For me it was mainly to do with Pre-Record. I just felt this was an absolute necessity for those of us involved in nature or wildlife capturing etc or ENG who would not want to miss the vital action.

Someone suggested though that we could also have 1gb of flash buffering included onto the red drive unit to enable us who want to record for longer periods out on the field but require pre-record facility whilst using the red drive. You have suggested another great reason for having flash buffering up to 16gb to be included or used when selecting red drive for filming.

What you have suggested would be brilliant to have a sudden 120 fps slow motion even for 5 seconds would be great.

How would that work if you were recording at 2k or 1080p assuming red dont manage to squeeze in 1080p at 120fps (the situation so far). Would the format suddenly switch to 720p.

Hey remember i am all theory so might not understand:innocent:

Mike the beginner

[TimothyD]

I have a suggestion that seems pretty important to consider, what about using the RAM as a buffer and including a motion sensor like in the Apple laptops to avoid damaging the hard drive. That way if you are running and gunning you don't need to worry unless you don't ever stop to steady your shot. Every time you stopped moving, the camera/drive would know, and would burst the data from the RAM to the HD.

This seems crucial to me given the price of the Red Drive per gig compared to an off the shelf SATA 3.5 or even 2.5 inch drive.

Also, on a somewhat related note, what about the capability of capturing to a non-Red external SATA box? I think this could be pretty handy anytime you might want to do high-res shooting from a tripod for prolonged periods of time (I'm thinking concert shoots or other events that don't leave time to dump to a new disc.)

Tim

[Tom Lowe]

I was thinking RED RAM / RED FLASH were the same thing, maybe not. Anyway, a RAM capture system like Andreas suggests shouldn't be too difficult. It would definitely require a battery system of its own, possibly even a DC power brick. ...Although, I think the FLASH module could handle this very application if/when FLASH speeds can brought up to snuff. RAM might be a good interim solution though for a 4K or 2K RAW burst ability at high FPS. 16GB of RAM would give about 18 seconds of 4K RAW uncompressed record ability.

Why not just go 32GBs and you could record 4K at high FPS overcranked (going off your math) for around 30 seconds. 18 seconds might not cover a scene, but 30 seconds is more reasonable.

30 seconds at a time, then the thing slowly offloads to REDCODE RAW at 27MB/s to the main drive? or maybe a laptop standing by can dump the 32GB flash cards and process them to REDCODE at its own pace?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Why not just go 32GBs and you could record 4K at high FPS overcranked (going off your math) for around 30 seconds. 18 seconds might not cover a scene, but 30 seconds is more reasonable.

30 seconds at a time, then the thing slowly offloads to REDCODE RAW at 27MB/s to the main drive? or maybe a laptop standing by can dump the 32GB flash cards and process them to REDCODE at its own pace?

I was just using the 16GB = 18 secs of uncompressed RAW as a frame of reference. IMO, if you're going to build such a RAM buffer, it would make sense to pack 64GB or more in there. Expensive, yes, but 4GB DIMMs aren't all that expensive these days. 16GB FB-DIMMs would be the way to go, but they are rather expensive. FLASH memory still isn't fast enough unless we go with NAND FLASH, but that's still super expensive.

[Tom Lowe]

The more overcranking the better! I have said all along that this is the one glaring Achilles Heel of the Red - a lack of ability to overcrank at 4K "onboard."

Take a look at any music video, and probably 50% of it will be overcranked, not to mention how popular overcranking and ramping have become with filmmakers. Probably half of the entire movie 300 is overcranked and/or ramped.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Using RAM for overcranking is a great idea and it's probably just a matter of time when it's going to be adopted, but at this price range I think we can forget huge amounts of RAM inside RED.

It would be a really good upgrade option, though.

[TimothyD]

I can see why all the filmmakers want to overcrank, and I do see how that is a very important issue.

For those of us who run and gun doing ENG/EFP style though, I think a RAM buffer of a gig or two is essential to protect the drive. A grand for a 320 gig drive is pretty spendy, so I want to make sure mine lasts for many years.

On a side note, does anyone else here second a vote that the Red Drive should really have a hot-swappable tray so we can buy our own drives and keep a few with us to use in the Red Drive?

Tim

[Mike the beginner]

I can see why all the filmmakers want to overcrank, and I do see how that is a very important issue.

For those of us who run and gun doing ENG/EFP style though, I think a RAM buffer of a gig or two is essential to protect the drive. A grand for a 320 gig drive is pretty spendy, so I want to make sure mine lasts for many years.

On a side note, does anyone else here second a vote that the Red Drive should really have a hot-swappable tray so we can buy our own drives and keep a few with us to use in the Red Drive?

Tim

Hi Timothy. The question of spare drives other than red drive was asked a while back. The reply from red team was (at that time) was that you would not be able to use another drive other than the red drive. However you could use a lap top with spare drives.

Thats not much use to me but will help others. I can understand the reason though. It was pointed out that red drive is not just two drives stuck together. I also understand that the red drive unit will be an enclosed unit able to withstand some knocking about.

At around $1,000 i just hope it has some flash buffering inside the unit that can be exchanged for larger flash at a later date. It would be terrible to buy two red drive units and find they are "Obsolete" within 12 months. Then again i suppose by then we will have larger and possibly faster hard drives out anyway. It does make you think though:umm:

Alternativeley the red drive might well cummunicate in some way to the separate red flash. That would seem a better method, but i am only guessing i know so little:blush:

I just want to be able to have pre-record for that vital few seconds when a sudden burst of action or event takes place but still be able to record with the red drive without switching the red flash and then switching red drive on, that would be a hassle and a drain on resources especially if red flash works out quite expensive and limited storage.

Was there a limitation on the sensor processor that prevented the use of 120fps at larger formats? or am i mixing this up with the transfer speeds of footage, i cant remember now? I do remember something said about the limitation of the processor.

Mike the beginner