It's not the cart, it's the person behind the cart

[Von Thomas]

Lately I've noticed a kind of same level skills associated with DIT's We are not all alike! Today a client said to me, "hey were you a musician, or a roadie, because I see a lot of those guys working as DIT's". Since the digital age has leaped to the fore, quite a few people have jumped into the DIT world, some to keep working because their other position was being phased out, some because of the pay rate, but very few because it was a passion. There is no truth in this business (for most). A would be DIT will say anything to get the job, which when he/she fails leaves a bad taste in a producers mouth about DIT's. Now we are all reduced to that failures level, and subject to the BS the follows. There should be a certification for DIT's, a certification for digital loaders, and a certification for digital utility. Plus there needs to be a firm understanding of how these jobs differ.

If you know your way around a computer, that's great, but it does not make you a DIT. A DIT should be not only camera skilled, but photography skilled. If you cannot advise a DP on exposure (not just by looking at scopes scopes are very important, but also by experience) then you are not a true DIT. You should know the ends and out of the digital file. Be able to explain why you suggest the DP open up a 1/3 stop, or caution why to close down to guard against blown highlights. You should KNOW this, it should not be a guessing game, otherwise you are a fraud, and taking up space for REAL technicians to do good work. You should always be learning to improve your craft.

This business is getting out of hand, and becoming dumbed down. Those with a laptop, and a card reader are calling themselves DIT, WTF. The discounted Hollywood environment is breeding a lesser than industry, where image quality is secondary to who you know, and how low can I buy your service.

There are those that want to shadow me. What does that mean, you want me to teach you everything I know in a day, and you can replace me? Hardly. If anything, you will hang yourself, and your production, then they'll blame all DIT's, because they hired a discount dude.

There used to be integrity in this business, somehow it's slipped away (maybe I'm niave). If you understand what I'm talking about, you're a DIT, if you don't you're a poser. And for posers, you will be found out, because you are forever standing still, never moving forward, just getting in the way and being a road block to true artists.

With the expanding roles of a on-set DIT, you need to know Resolve, Scratch as starters, plus, Photoshop, verification software, dailies creation, the needs of both your DP and that of the post house. There should be a continuos connection between set and post, with you the liaison.

A cart does not make a DIT!

If you never use a gray card, guess what, you don't know why you should use a gray card, and you sir/madam are not a DIT.

If you cannot read a histogram, you are not a DIT.

If you can't advise on exposure, you are not a DIT.

If your DP does not respect your opinion, you are not a DIT.

If you sit there dragging and dropping to transfer files, you are not a DIT.

If you don't know color theory, you are not a DIT.

If you color on set, yet don't/can't calibrate your own monitor, you are not a DIT.

If you are not the consultant on set for your camera crew, you are not a DIT.

If producers are more excited over your rate than your work, you are not a DIT.

If you do 3 or 4 different jobs (DP, AC, MIXER, GAFFER, oh and DIT), you are not a DIT.

If you took a 3 hour workshop on a DIT cart, you are not a DIT.

If you panic under pressure, you sir, are NOT a DIT

A DIT is a skill set, one acquired over time.

If all this is foreign to you, you are not a DIT.

Not to piss off any more than I have, but a true DIT is a safety net on a production. If you see a problem, you act, or else there could be financial, artistic, and career consequences at stake. It's you and your DP.

Von

Oh, my background, 30+ years as an advertising and fashion photographer (check my website), 14 years as a leader in digital still capture in New York City, teacher, lecturer, it's in my blood, and I'm still learning how to be better.

[Kwan Khan]

Those with a laptop, and a card reader + REDDIT FRONT ZIP HOODIE are calling themselves DIT

http://1.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/4/-/bustedtees.0bd1b5a4-25e1-46d9-b60f-d7602ff185b3.jpg

[Von Thomas]

Those with a laptop, and a card reader + REDDIT FRONT ZIP HOODIE are calling themselves DIT

http://1.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/4/-/bustedtees.0bd1b5a4-25e1-46d9-b60f-d7602ff185b3.jpg

Don't give them fuel, the hoodie is sort of nice (NOT), could be better considering you're a New Yorker. Maybe a Prada RED Hoodie.

Von

[Kwan Khan]

Don't give them fuel, the hoodie is sort of nice (NOT), could be better considering you're a New Yorker. Maybe a Prada RED Hoodie.

Von

LOL @ Prada Hoodie.
Yes indeed I'ma New York Film Maker. NY still has more of this unexpected quality around every corner than any place else. It's something quite extraordinary.

Few more...
If you can't setups like detail, noise reduction, secondary color correction in the camera in every scene, you are not a DIT.
If you can't match whole material on set instead of "fixing everything in post", you are not a DIT.
If you can't record the proper RAW signal - so you could use as much information in post as you can, you are not a DIT.

LUTs R US....




If you cannot read a histogram, you are not a DIT.

I'm still laughin' on this and its so true

[Nick Pasquariello]

As much as I agree with what you guys are saying, I do also want that RED|DIT hoodie now . . . 'course, I highly doubt I'd wear it to set.

On set, I'm comfortable with probably 80% of your list of requirements. Very actively trying to learn/master the rest, and even more beyond that. I'm sure you'd agree that it's understandably difficult for a 26 year old to match up to your 30+ years of experience.

[M Most]

I would add that anyone who either calls or thinks of themself as a "Red DIT" is not a DIT. You can substitute the words Alexa, F65, or anything else and the statement still applies.

[Scott Crawley]

These are excellent reminders gents, but with all of the visitors still lingering after the Great Zacuto thread this one could quickly turn into a Red User:white trash rant if we are not careful about where we point the finger. Just a thought. :-)


I would add that anyone who either calls or thinks of themself as a "Red DIT" is not a DIT. You can substitute the words Alexa, F65, or anything else and the statement still applies.

[Kemalettin Sert]

if you are not Dino G you are not a DIT..
this is thread is like saying Wally Pfister didnt shot digital so he is not real DP.Please dont turn this into self advertorial

[Alex Frausto]

Heh, this thread is great. I'll play (my stuff applies to raw & non-raw productions)

Don't know how to do lens shading on a camera? Not a DIT.

Don't know how to solder/build/repair cables? Not a DIT.

Don't know how to operate/read a WFM/vectorscope/arrowhead/lightning/diamond display? Not a DIT.

[Matthew Riggieri]

Von

I think this is very true. There are a lot of people out there who claim to be DIT's and they are nothing more than just a digital loader. I have tried my best to educate Producers on the difference between DIT and Digital Loader. Some producers do not even know that Digital Loader was placed back into the commercial contract. The more we educate producers on what they need, the less bad DIT stories i am hoping to hear. And i have heard a lot of them.

Matt Riggieri
IATSE Local 600 DIT

[Milan Spasic]

You forgot an important one:

If you don't have a HUGE ego, you are NOT a DIT.


Apparently.

But all kidding aside, it's the effect digital age had on all aspects of production. (see 'my mom bought me a Red camera and now I'm a DP')
If you are good at what you do, that's all that should matter. Worrying about what others are doing is kind of pointless.

[Gunleik Groven]

Thanks Von!

I never call myself DIT, whatever I do...

People seems to think that is some sort of cardreader automation...

Lately I have chosen not to DIT, but rather set up the workflows with the production, DP and DIT, because of all the misunderstandings around the role...

[Scott Crawley]

Worrying about what others are doing is kind of pointless.

That's largely true. However if you are part of a collective bargaining group or trade organization it becomes a relevant discussion once again.

[Milan Spasic]

That's largely true. However if you are part of a collective bargaining group or trade organization it becomes a relevant discussion once again.

True. I'm just saying that there's no turning back the clock. It's the same negative effect that digital revolution caused in many similar areas, graphic design (computer), stills photography (digital camera), film and music distribution (Napster and torrents), cinematography (5D, Red)........ etc.

By democratizing these tools and making them accessible to everyone, these changes are inevitable. One can adjust to the market weirdness and move on, or keep pondering about it.

The most productive thing in this case IMHO is to concentrate on your own craft and most importantly to embrace the change instead of fight it.
Because regardless of what you do, the faux DPs and DITs will be doing their thing.

Cheers,

Milan

[Matthew Love]

Ha on the Dino G comment. I love Dino.

Von, I hear ya man. I may be newer into the DIT world but have been a photography (understanding all aspects of it) nerd from the start and came from a background of ACing (1st and 2nd).

While I always try to bring more to the shoot with my knowledge of things it seems like more and more I come across DPs who just don't respect what we do. NOW, if this is a DP I've worked with a few times they grow to love me and my input. But it also seems that with the new age all DPs think we just typically download, ie " where are you downloading ? You done downloading yet .". It bums me out.

I want to be in the fray with my camera crew, dialing everything in with my guys. Not being treated like an out cast.

I just recently did a job one couple of epics and blew the DPs mind when I not only took control of the cameras on set from the ill experienced ACs but gave him the exact image he wanted.

It felt good.

My own personal rant: since when did DITs become 2nd assistant editors ? I was on a job recently where not only did I setup both EPiCS, setup exposure with the DP when lit, one light color correct prores dailies but they then asked if I'd log all the footage in bins in final cut and rename the clips by scene/take as well as save the FCP projects. What the shit is that ?

Are DITs now assistant editors ? I know we are the freeway to post but common, am I missing something?

[Mark Toia]

I shoot million dollar Tv commercials... a lot.. I don't think we have ever had a full blown DIT on set. ?

Why do I need one? Am I missing something. All I want is on set multiple backups for me to take home each night... not someone to tell me how to expose, how to color or hold me up with the toy trolley or edit anything ?

Am I missing something. Is shooting digital becoming harder than shooting film.. or easier. ? Just a question.

PS... and not saying the world doesn't need a DIT that does all this stuff... as there are a lot of lazy, non tech savvy people out there that need support in this areas.

[Robert Hart]

DIT cart, SI2K destitute West Aussie style. Western Digital Passport drives in top pocket of Castro jacket with USB cables sticking out. Yep I know, I should flayed, expurgated, excommunicated, subject to examination by torture for seditious incantation of that heathenous acronym, "SI2K".

[Matthew Love]

Hey Mark, one thing I will never do is slow down my guys or step on anyone's toes. So I see what you're saying. Last thing I'd want is a DIT dragging behind the dolly. I just feel that shooting with these cameras may be easier than film, but with how fast they are advancing and changing ( evolving ) it's nice to have someone on set who knows them threw and threw.

[Von Thomas]

Not every shoot requires a DIT, that said, it's not a bad idea to have a DIT around. A skilled and experienced DIT knows more about the digital file than anyone else on set, and that can be a asset to a DP when he wants to under light a scene. One look a the blue channel from an under exposed clip (shot tungsten), should be proof enough for a DP to open up, or put more light on it (gel the light). I find a lot of DP shoot with the fix it in post mentality, which is like driving your car into a wall, it can be fixed, but never as good as it could have been, if only you steer clear of the wall.

Digital on looks easy, but it take more discipline that shooting film. Film, you can be a bit sloppy, and if you've ever shoot reversal film, you know your exposure latitude is small, just like digital. Still photographers have learn this, I know, I taught a lot of them in the past 13 years in the film to digital transition in that industry. Most DP's shooting digital still do not understand that by exposing more to the middle, will give them a more superior file, with better color information, but who cares, fix it in post.

So to say don't don't want a good knowledgable tech on set, to assist you in your masterpiece, we'll......

On and yes, the rules are changing fast, a DIT today, is different that a DIT 3 years ago, it's evolving along with technology. On-set dailies, even creating Avid or FCP bins, will be on the menu, just make sure you are getting PAID for it.



Von

[Nick Pasquariello]

Mark, I'm the on-set DIT for the $100k shoots of the company I work for.

For us, we don't do a lot of look generation. Sometimes the agency/brand team/producer want to see how the footage looks, sometimes they don't. Primarily, our DIT role, whether it's me or someone else, is thought of as a digital loader. For us, and our closed-loop-system, and our workflow, that's usually fine. Our DIT role, if anything, does move more towards an assistant editor than a camera assist.

Just this week, we used a motion controlled rig for a time-lapse shot. The shot was separated into three pieces, so they did the first third of the time-lapse, then reset, did the second third, reset, final third. In this instance, as DIT, it was most important to see whether or not the separate MoCo'ed time-lapses lined up properly. It wasn't working, so I called over the producer and agency. Still wasn't working after their suggestions, so called over the director. Then it finally got to work after his suggestions. From there, while the shoot was still going on, the agency and brand team had an H264 of the most-crucial shot working, on their laptops.

In between all that I had a conversation with the guy that will be color grading it, keying him in to a few things to note about the footage when we get picture lock.

Our workflow is certainly not the standard to be aspired to. What I'm noticing is, the more I learn about every part of the process, the better I get as a DIT. The better I get as a DIT, the more invisible I become on set, and also the less issues we have with the footage in post. I feel like if I'm doing my job right, no one knows I'm even doing my job at all, which makes it hard to justify my being there or justify us trying to do more with the DIT role (on set iPad dailies, for example).

[Nick Pasquariello]

Not every shoot requires a DIT, that said, it's not a bad idea to have a DIT around. A skilled and experienced DIT knows more about the digital file than anyone else on set, and that can be a asset to a DP when he wants to under light a scene. One look a the blue channel from an under exposed clip (shot tungsten), should be proof enough for a DP to open up, or put more light on it (gel the light). I find a lot of DP shoot with the fix it in post mentality, which is like driving your car into a wall, it can be fixed, but never as good as it could have been, if only you steer clear of the wall.

Digital on looks easy, but it take more discipline that shooting film. Film, you can be a bit sloppy, and if you've ever shoot reversal film, you know your exposure latitude is small, just like digital. Still photographers have learn this, I know, I taught a lot of them in the past 13 years in the film to digital transition in that industry. Most DP's shooting digital still do not understand that by exposing more to the middle, will give them a more superior file, with better color information, but who cares, fix it in post.

So to say don't don't want a good knowledgable tech on set, to assist you in your masterpiece, we'll......

But in Mark's case, if he knows all of that (as he seems to know quite a bit about how digital cameras and especially Red cameras work), does he need a DIT? I'm playing Devil's Advocate; I'm fascinated to hear how you'd each respond to this question.

[Mike P.]

Yeah, I was going to say that if your budget allows for a pro DIT than you're production is only going to be better because of it. HOWEVER, if your budget doesn't allow for the luxury, I can see why people choose to forgo a real DIT (or treat them like a new-age film loader, just dumping cards.)

[Mark Toia]

But in Mark's case, if he knows all of that (as he seems to know quite a bit about how digital cameras and especially Red cameras work), does he need a DIT? I'm playing Devil's Advocate; I'm fascinated to hear how you'd each respond to this question.

I've had a long hard think about this...
Good DITs are necessary on big jobs, like movies etc.. That's 100% for sure.
TVAD's how ever... I tend to think about how those individual jobs are managed, budgeted, how gorilla they may be.. how huge they maybe... They are all so different and call for different needs on all fronts.
For instance.. I finished a job last year, 6 country shoot, 12 days.. DIT was me... Huge job it was as well. Why.. because I did not need to drag around someone just to manage files. Was easy for me to do at the end of each day, and playback came directly from the camera.

Next job, multiple camera, motion control, 200 hundred crew, 6 different types of cameras... feeds going everywhere.. DIT was a must !

Different countries as well. I know when I'm bought in as a director to shoot in the US. A huge army turns up. Everything to slow you down turns up, trucks line up down the streets, shots take for ever to set up... complete over kill..
So what I'm saying is, in the States were there is a lot more monetary waste, and productions come with everything, then why not have a DIT as well... The job is already choked full of techs, may as well have one more.
I take the opportunity and use them to there fullest. Why not, if they are skilled and are there and can offer benefits to the production, then that's a good thing right.

Over all I cannot really say that I will ever need highly qualified DIT's in my productions with huge carts filled with the latest greatest gizmo's. Only because I like to manage all my own edits, grading etc... and what I want to show clients on set I show them through PLAYBACK from the camera (edited in the playback function, so they only see what I want to show them) I'm a control freak. All I want to know is from a DIT.. are the R3D's good (not corrupt) and back them up at least 3 times and hand a copy to myself , producer, and post house each day. But that's me... I certainly don't answer for everyone on this forum. Reason is that a majority of directors / DP's / Producers don't have a clue how any of this stuff works. how to post, how to do anything technical... hence the need for good DITS to be on set is imperative. I do hear of many crazy backup systems in place... Were a producer will supply some cheap little USB 2 pocket drive for the rushes.... that's it. no backups nothing. No onset quality control... just crazy stuff. But they only do this becuase they are not educated on what a good DIT can do and supply.

So in short... DITS are a much needed asset, I 100% believe this... But should sculpt there business models to at least 3 different scales. Small, medium and large to suite each and every production. Modern day Loader, what ever you want to call it's a real job and needs to be setup to suite many different situations.. Bit like a SOUND guy... I have sound engineers come in all different capacities. from small fanny bag set ups to huge trollies of gear. You are the same.

Oh.. and remember... everyone is looking for the cheapest way out.

[Meryem Ersoz]

What I dislike about DIT discussions is th e distinction between DIT and data wrangler.

What I want from the person who I hire to fill this spot is three good, clean checked copies. Obtaining these copies takes time. I have done this job myself, frequently, so I understand exactly how much time and focus it takes to do a proper job.

Somehow the perception has emerged that this is not enough...that the DIT has to do all these other things to justify the job's existence or to pay that person a living wage. If the DIT is nt color correcting camera exposing, cable soldering, then somehow we think our disdain is somehow warranted?

Ridiculous. Your data is you MOVIE, for gosh sakes...your data is the sum of all that labor, resource, and investment.

I don't care if it is done with laptops or Scratch trolleys. You can have all the bells and whistles in the world and still lack the meticulous nature which the DIT needs, first and foremost....

More than a great cart or even an exceptional skill set, give me someone meticulous, who can troubleshoot, is a team player, who can be entrusted with the entire production's most valuable asset, the data. I really don't care I'd they can color or expose a camera. Hopefully, I have hired smart in my camera operator, AC, and in the editorial pipeline. If a DIT can do all these other things, that is great but I don't want them thinking that copying files and bomb proofing the film is dull or secondary...at the end of the day, it is important to have a dedicated set of eyeballs on this task, someone knowledgeable who can identify things like IR pollution or banding or sensor issues or other potentially destructive landmines to the sanctity of the data....

This stuff MATTERS, so I always dislike when these discussions eclipse the most important aspect of the job, as if it is somehow the least important, when in fact, the opposite is true.

Everything else is secondary to that....

[Nick Pasquariello]

...If a DIT can do all these other things, that is great but I don't want them thinking that copying files and bomb proofing the film is dull or secondary...at the end of the day, it is important to have a dedicated set of eyeballs on this task, someone knowledgeable who can identify things like IR pollution or banding or sensor issues or other potentially destructive landmines to the sanctity of the data....

These are two different things though. A good data wrangler understands checksums and the nature of data integrity, but doesn't necessarily know anything about image quality. He or she would not recognize IR pollution, banding, artifacts, etc. A data wrangler only knows that the Ones and Zeroes from the Red Mag made their way over to the destination drives in the same order in which they were sent.

A DIT knows more about colors and digital imaging, however, and would be able to spot problems like under-exposure, IR pollution, too much noise, etc., and would have some suggestions as to have to fix if asked, in addition to knowing about checksums and data integrity.


And Mark, you continue to be one of my favorite posters. I'd kill to spend a day on one of your sets, if you're ever shooting in the North East of the USA.

[Justin Marx]

A DIT is a person who is competent in data management, look creation, and giving knowledgable advice to the DP on ways to get the best image possible (when appropriate). I think when you become DIT MAN and know it all and are always right, you might not be made for a a lot of jobs.. It's a very responsible job, but it's a skill. I don't think you need to be a former cinematographer to be a DIT.

[ericyoung]

What I dislike about DIT discussions is th e distinction between DIT and data wrangler.

What I want from the person who I hire to fill this spot is three good, clean checked copies. Obtaining these copies takes time. I have done this job myself, frequently, so I understand exactly how much time and focus it takes to do a proper job.

Somehow the perception has emerged that this is not enough...that the DIT has to do all these other things to justify the job's existence or to pay that person a living wage. If the DIT is nt color correcting camera exposing, cable soldering, then somehow we think our disdain is somehow warranted?

Ridiculous. Your data is you MOVIE, for gosh sakes...your data is the sum of all that labor, resource, and investment.

I don't care if it is done with laptops or Scratch trolleys. You can have all the bells and whistles in the world and still lack the meticulous nature which the DIT needs, first and foremost....

More than a great cart or even an exceptional skill set, give me someone meticulous, who can troubleshoot, is a team player, who can be entrusted with the entire production's most valuable asset, the data. I really don't care I'd they can color or expose a camera. Hopefully, I have hired smart in my camera operator, AC, and in the editorial pipeline. If a DIT can do all these other things, that is great but I don't want them thinking that copying files and bomb proofing the film is dull or secondary...at the end of the day, it is important to have a dedicated set of eyeballs on this task, someone knowledgeable who can identify things like IR pollution or banding or sensor issues or other potentially destructive landmines to the sanctity of the data....

This stuff MATTERS, so I always dislike when these discussions eclipse the most important aspect of the job, as if it is somehow the least important, when in fact, the opposite is true.

Everything else is secondary to that....

I agree.

[Scott Crawley]

This discussion has veered into familiar territory. It always seems to lead here; loader v. DIT.

We all want to keep this position in the Camera Department and not cede it to Editorial, right? It would seem ideal to flex the position as budget allows: on bigger jobs call him a DIT and give him the bigger paycheck and on the smaller jobs limit his responsibilities and pay him less, but at least we can still pay a camera person.

The inherent danger in minimizing the duties of a loader is that in limiting his camera specific expertise we open the door for Production to move the job to Editorial Department, since they can then claim that he is serving as more of an Assistant Editor. Is that what we want to do, or is it better to maintain a higher standard and require more of a loader than file management?

It seems to me that the conversation is always going to end up here. If we loose sight of the forest for the trees and forget to stand together, good camera people are going to loose jobs.

Does anyone with a larger perspective agree?

[Meryem Ersoz]

These are two different things though. A good data wrangler understands checksums and the nature of data integrity, but doesn't necessarily know anything about image quality. He or she would not recognize IR pollution, banding, artifacts, etc. A data wrangler only knows that the Ones and Zeroes from the Red Mag made their way over to the destination drives in the same order in which they were sent.

A DIT knows more about colors and digital imaging, however, and would be able to spot problems like under-exposure, IR pollution, too much noise, etc., and would have some suggestions as to have to fix if asked, in addition to knowing about checksums and data integrity.

I am just talking about what I want, as a producer, from the position. The DIT may want to be other things or aspire to more. Or it may be important for union rules to define the position one way or another. My point is, these competing desires create a lot of convoluted perceptions and confusions about what the job entails -- once again, my post was about working against the perception that copying is somehow the least of what a DIT does - to me, it is the essential function. Bomb-proof my data...

Instead of saying that the DIT should be this or should be that - we should be saying that getting good clean copies in triplicate is an exacting, meticulous, time-intensive, and essential job. Somehow that always ends up at the bottom of the priority list, or somewhere in the middle. Doing this is exacting work and something the DIT should be able to take pride in.

That should be all that is required to justify the pay and the existence of the DIT - ...just my opinion -

[Chuck Z]

A real thug is a thug that's hush.