Making handheld not suck

[Brook Willard]

By now we all know that Element Technica is working on a few handheld systems. I have faith in the product they're working on and can't wait to see it, but in the mean time... there still needs to be a handheld solution.

As it stands, people have been getting cranky about the handheld system that RED makes. Yes, the handles slip and the shoulder pad leaves much to be desired... but it is possible to get it working. For many people, the RED system will be adequate.

Not being a camera owner, I live in a wonderful world where I can make demands constantly but I never have to pay for them. I can throw advice out all day, but since I never pay the bills... use your own judgement. I've had the fantastic opportunity to try every piece of equipment that RED and Element Technica makes for months - in many cases before the products are even done. I can work 15 RED productions in a month and rent something different every time... getting a lot of access to and experience with a lot of different equipment. Things that are a "given" to me as a result may not be a "given" to everybody.

Simply put, living in a 15mm Studio world, RED's stuff is not great for me.

Here's what I built today at Clairmont. It's made up of the ET bridge plate, some no-name super simple shoulder pad and a "Spyder" rod-mounted rosette-based handle system that I'm quite enamored with.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455890.jpg
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455903.jpg
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455916.jpg

[Brook Willard]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455929.jpg
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455941.jpg
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1202455953.jpg

The camera is Evin's - it still has RED's 19mm top mounts but I used ET's Ultra Rods to save weight. This package [as pictured] weighed less than an equivalently built Arri 235 with video tap, onboard battery and shoulder magazine. Don't ever let somebody tell you that the RED is too heavy.

The most important thing about a handheld system is the balance - the fore/aft balance needs to be spot on. Your hands don't do the work, they aim the camera. You should be able to support the camera with a few fingers on the handles; don't front-load your handheld setup! If your arms are tired after operating the camera, you rigged it wrong.

This setup was balanced. Every time I changed a lens [for example, to the Ultra Prime 10mm that was much heavier], I would balance the camera by sliding the battery/Quick Plate forwards or backwards. Again, balance!

This shoulder pad sucked big time. I like that it wraps so far around the front and back [giving you something to press against], but it's too flimsy, the shoulder curve diameter is too large, the padding sucks and it doesn't inspire confidence. I personally prefer a formed rubber like an Arricam LT's shoulder pad with the rubbery tackiness of the RED shoulder pad. I want it to wrap all the way around my shoulder... and I want it to be soft enough to somewhat "cup" my shoulder. I don't want to have to fight to keep the stinkin' camera level... let the shoulder pad do some work. Shoulders aren't flat! Put more mass on the outside than the inside. Accessory builders, are you listening!?

But for a few bucks and a patch-job handheld rig, this pad will make it through the shoot. I'd prefer to have the shoulder pad a little farther back than this one allowed, but it worked. If the pad sat farther back, the battery would have to go back as well to counterweight the increased frontal mass of the system.

The handle system is one I've posted before. It's simple, lightweight, easily adjustable and quite solid. It doesn't take up much rod real estate and is just generally a nice piece of equipment. I wish it was clip-on like what Element Technica is working on... but again, this is a patch-job until accessory companies start making RED rigs.

The LCD is another thing to think about. While I can't wait to spend some more time with the EVF and ET's EVF bracket handheld, I'm not upset with using the LCD in this manner. Putting the NOGA arm into the end of the top handle gave me a nice "reach" forward without interfering with the lens. My visibility was great and I had plenty of room to move the LCD [though I do wish I had an LCD cable with 90 degree LEMOs on each end]. Those that have dealt with the RED handheld up until now know how much of a victory good LCD placement is. This one actually worked. I'll try to get a picture of me operating the camera tomorrow to put some perspective on it.

Long story short:

The RED can function today as a handheld camera. These are TEMPORARY WORKAROUNDS right now and should NOT be considered as a "good" handheld system. When companies finish their work on their handheld accessories, everything will improve. The final accessories will turn this puppy into an Arri 235 or LT... not some goofy looking contraption like this one is.

But as of today, if somebody tells you that the RED sucks for handheld work... they're just not doing it right.

[Andrew Benz]

Brook, thanks for the great write up, pictures and break down of your set up. I have been stressing out on this and want to spend wisely for my needs.

How soon do you think we will be seeing some solid hand held solutions?

Thanks again Brook.

[Mark Pedersen]

Great post Brook. Thanks!

Look forward to what ET has in store. They always do it right.

BTW, any real weight issues with the Ultra Prime for handheld? Or just noticed it on the changeover?

M

[Arnaud Paris]

Could you tell us where to find this "no-name super simple shoulder pad".
Thanks

[Robert Frank]

I've impressed with the Zacuto/RED setup, but never having used any RED setup yet, have no idea what's good or not.

Brook, what's your opinion of the Zacuto/RED configuration?

Link--> http://zacuto.com/RED.htm

[David Birdy]

Great Work Brook! Nice photos.

Can you have some one that lives with a camera on their shoulder take it for a test drive?
Thanks for keeping the spirit of "We are all in this Together alive"

Dave

[sceneeast]

Brook Great Job!

When you are satisfied with your setup. Could you please list all the parts plus the total weight?

Thanks Bob

[Brook Willard]

How soon do you think we will be seeing some solid hand held solutions?

Thanks again Brook.
I'd guess in a few weeks. I'll post pictures of prototypes as I'm allowed to.


TW, any real weight issues with the Ultra Prime for handheld? Or just noticed it on the changeover?

M

No weight issues at all - I actually prefer larger lenses on the RED as they balance the body better [and I prefer Ultra Primes to Master Primes for handheld use as they are just easier to handle]. It's just easy to notice the difference from the 10mm Ultra Prime [with its giant front element] to the tiny Super Speed [with an 80mm front]. It was a 5-second adjustment.

The funny thing is that with a film camera, there is no weight adjustment like this. Because the camera body, magazine and viewfinder are one unit, nobody thinks about shifting the weight. If people get cranky about the RED being in so many parts... remind them that it's a feature, not a bug! :) You have more control than you would with a film camera on a dovetail. This is bad news if you don't take the time to think out your setup and do it right... but if you do think it out, the modularity of the camera can be a huge advantage.


Could you tell us where to find this "no-name super simple shoulder pad".
Thanks

Just something I rented from Clairmont. Like I said, it's not great. I wouldn't buy it. But it's still a decent solution for the next few weeks...


Brook, what's your opinion of the Zacuto/RED configuration?

Link--> http://zacuto.com/RED.htm

I think it's great for what it is, but I look at that and see video camera accessories strapped to a cinema camera. Nothing against Zacuto - they make great stuff. Nothing against those that want to use the RED outside of the narrative cinema field either - I'm not saying it's not possible or functional. I just work in what is ultimately a very narrow spectrum of what this camera is able to do. Zacuto's handheld system? Great for lots of people. Haven't had a chance to try it - maybe it'd be amazing for me too - but I just see video camera all over the place.

That said, the accessories I strapped onto the RED are dinky compared to what I almost used [parts borrowed from a 435 and 535].

I'll probably never be totally satisfied with the handheld solution because unlike a film camera, I can keep throwing new parts at it until I am happy. With an Arricam LT, what you see is what you get. The LT is awesome and is still my second-favorite camera to operate [behind a 235], but you pretty much have to take what Arri gives you. Now what they give you is very very good... but there's no room to keep innovating. With the RED you can keep changing it forever. Eventually I'll find a solution that's "good enough" to "purchase" [read: tell some of the Ninjas to purchase for their cameras... :ninja:] but until then... I'm gonna keep playing.


Great Work Brook! Nice photos.

Can you have some one that lives with a camera on their shoulder take it for a test drive?

I do work as a camera operator [among other things, of course]. I'll post back after today's impressions.

Of course, plopping this camera on the shoulder of a 30-year veteran operator would yield a "get this thing off of me" response. Like I said, it's rough, but functional.


Brook Great Job!

When you are satisfied with your setup. Could you please list all the parts plus the total weight?

Thanks Bob

Will do. I'm not satisfied today [remember, this setup is just a temporary solution that "doesn't suck"], but when I'm close... I'll let everybody know.

[Chris Burket]

Try a 535B handheld rig. Pad, handles, and everything snap onto the bridge plate. Might not work, but it would be worth a try.

[Matt Uhry]

Nice work, Brook ! I have a lot of faith in the Element Technica solution on this one...

Any one remember this old Aaton ad ?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/10_1202488673.gif

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Brook Willard]

The 535B helicopter doesn't balance the RED well at all... Tried it and don't recommend it.

[Finner]

Nice work, Brook ! I have a lot of faith in the Element Technica solution on this one...

Any one remember this old Aaton ad ?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/10_1202488673.gif

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Thats cool Matt. So from what I can tell you just use the cat to cushion between your shoulder and the camera? I would assume an extremely obese cat should be your best comfort option. Is the cat rated to handle a decked out red with a hawk lens and 6x6 MB14?

Stephen at Element Technica has some really cool hand held options on the horizion that are going to be the number 1 choice for most sets. We all know red is working hard but the guys at Element Technica are putting in just as much time to get things ready for us. It is not unusual to Have Stephen return an e-mail of mine at 1 or 2AM.

[Anthony Gratl]

Stephen at Element Technica has some really cool hand held options on the horizion that are going to be the number 1 choice for most sets

WHAT!!!!! Better than an obese cat????!!!!!

[Steve Sherrick]

Thats cool Matt. So from what I can tell you just use the cat to cushion between your shoulder and the camera? I would assume an extremely obese cat should be your best comfort option. Is the cat rated to handle a decked out red with a hawk lens and 6x6 MB14?

Stephen at Element Technica has some really cool hand held options on the horizion that are going to be the number 1 choice for most sets. We all know red is working hard but the guys at Element Technica are putting in just as much time to get things ready for us. It is not unusual to Have Stephen return an e-mail of mine at 1 or 2AM.

Yeah, the folks at ET have been great to deal with. And you are right on about the emails. Like the Red team, they don't seem to take too much time off.

I can't wait to see what they come up with for the handheld setups. Gonna be fun.

Steve

[Jason Wingrove]

Zakuto red kit does look good, although whats up with the wierd double rod MB setup?, like the red stuff it looks a little flimsy no? has anyone used one?

If your doing combat type moves or following fast action, your really throwing around a lot of weight, even with LW matte boxes and Follows, filter glass etc all adds up and start swinging it all about and you don't want any whip or twisting at all.

An ideal setup can also be configured so you dont need to have your battery and drive onboard, thats what grips are for :-)

[Harry Clark]

Marty Oppenheimer makes a pretty nice handheld set too. See below. Seems like a tough go to make 15mm lightweight rods work on the bottom of the camera without more weight and extra brackets though.
I wanted to try some Arri stuff at CSC yesterday but ran out of time. I'll try again next week.
Cheers,
Harry

[Jaron Berman]

Actually, the Element bridge plate is available in 15mm. So not only can you have lightweight rods at the base, you can also fit the standard Arri dovetail... and make room for their new accessories. And FYI - the element bridge has a rosette on the right side, for integration into standard handheld acc's like handles, grips, etc...

The big hurdle right now with handheld is the EVF. It's HUGE. Amazing piece, but the thing is as heavy and large as many consumer cameras. The problem is in getting it far enough forward on the camera to balance on the shoulder without obscuring the lens. Considering the EVF is about 8" long, that's not an easy task. LCD just isn't an option in a lot of situations, so once they solve this riddle, handheld will "not suck."

[Steve Sherrick]

Marty Oppenheimer makes a pretty nice handheld set too. See below. Seems like a tough go to make 15mm lightweight rods work on the bottom of the camera without more weight and extra brackets though.
I wanted to try some Arri stuff at CSC yesterday but ran out of time. I'll try again next week.
Cheers,
Harry

Hey those got taken off my old bicycle. I want them back. :sarcasm:

Steve

[Harry Clark]

HA!
Everyone says the same thing when they see that photo...
Cheers,
Harry

[Brook Willard]

While I agree that the EVF is an interesting challenge on its own...
LCD just isn't an option in a lot of situations, so once they solve this riddle, handheld will "not suck."

I'm curious about which situations the LCD would not work in? I'm not saying I don't prefer a viewfinder over the LCD, I'm just not sure when the LCD wouldn't work.

[Evin Grant]

Here are some photos of the Red not sucking handheld with a Angie 25-250 HR!
http://www.4kninjas.net/Eric10-1.jpg
http://www.4kninjas.net/Brook10-1.jpg
And the LCD worked great for all of this.

[Brook Willard]

Yes, it's pretty ridiculous to have that lens handheld... but we had 4 cameras on the shoot and only 2 heads.

The funny thing is that the camera is so light that adding a lens like that is actually "reasonable" weight wise. Throwing the battery a little farther back on the top rods made it balance well enough that it wasn't the end of the world. The front handles were way too far out for these pictures, but you can still get an idea of how it was working.

The spot was a very twitchy/fast/lens-flare-y production... hence the lack of a matte box.

[Mike Prevette]

Marty's Handles are good, but I don't think they can beat the Tango Blue handles. They are hands down my favorite. Especially with the microforce handle on one side.

[Kenn Michael]

great pics!

[Brook Willard]

Tend to agree with you, Mike. I still wish that the Microforce was a little smaller/more similar to a normal handle shape... but that's another thread. :wink:

Still wish the blue handles were clip-on.