Apple Shipping 8 Core 3.2GHz with NVIDIA GeForce 8800!

[David Cox]

Just got email notice.

Ordered the first day. Will receive on monday.

Dave Cox
Highway Definition (http://www.highwaydefinition.com)

[R Fogg]

Be prepared to buy a new video card if you are planning on working with redcine :sad:

[Vigen Vartanov]

I can change you 8 core to old one :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Be prepared to buy a new video card if you are planning on working with redcine :sad:

We don't know that yet...

REDCINE works fine on Macbook Pros and the current (now over 6 months old) model has an nVidia GPU. Unless Apple completely flubs the drivers, it will work and given how slow the ATI 2600HD is, I can't believe the 8800GT would be any slower, even with crap drivers.

[R Fogg]

I didn't realize that the NVIDA gpus were working with redcine on mac - my mistake.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, at least on the Macbook Pro and I believe the FX4500 works. Performance is a lot better with the ATI X1900 in Mac land though. Apple has some issues with their nVidia drivers that are causing poor performance in REDCINE. RED Alert doesn't use the GPU and it doesn't care, it will run on a Macbook or Mac Mini if you want.

[R Fogg]

I don't think Stu Maschwitz ever was able to get redcine working properly on a macbook using the gforce 8600, which makes me think there will be issues with the 8800 as well.

In fact if anyone is having success with the gforce nvidia card series please speak up!

[Rob Lohman]

I'm hoping mine shows up next week as well... we'll see :)

[C.H.Haskell]

Also waiting to here back about as I wait for my g5 to finish rendering! I dont want to pull the trigger until I know for sure the situation on the Nvidia performance issues. The speed performance even in the new imacs are incredible. Hope all works out.

[David Cox]

We will do some testing on monday a post response.

Dave Cox
Highway Definition (http://www.highwaydefinition.com)

[Rob Lohman]

I should be getting this system with both cards really soon!

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

I should be getting this system with both cards really soon!

please Rob i need your fast test reply . i waited your tests so long .
thanks

[Rob Lohman]

Me too... it's so hectic here that it took a while to order... as soon as I have results I will post

[C.H.Haskell]

1781 does not arrive until april but I really want to go ahead with the new 8 core mac, any reason I should wait until april? Standing by for Rob's results. :)

[Steve Sherrick]

I'd say wait Haskell unless you need it right away for other apps. Not so much that they'll come out with a new Mac but I'd wait to see how things are shaking out performance wise across the platforms. As with all tools, you should go with what gets the job done best. I don't know that we have a clear picture yet on this. Still a lot to be worked out. But if you need the Mac now, you'll probably be fine down the road when you get the camera.

Steve

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm surprised we haven't heard more info from anyone about the Mac Pro w/ 8800GT card. I ordered one less than 2 weeks ago. That system is shipping today or tomorrow, Apple says it's prepared for shipping and they've charged me.

Has anyone done any further testing? Anyone? Dave?

I guess I'll be the one to do some testing when it gets here in a few days.

[sceneeast]

Just got email notice.

Ordered the first day. Will receive on monday.

Dave Cox
Highway Definition (http://www.highwaydefinition.com)

I did the same got mine on Friday with 2 GB of RAM, 16GB of Ram comes Tuesday with two TB hard drives from third party.

Bob

[sharon diaz]

We have two of the new 8 cores, one has the NVIDIA Quadro FX5600 with 16GB of RAM. The other has NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 16GB of RAM.
We just finished a RED shoot and I did a test with both of the machines using redcine processing 91,000 frames into multiple h264 quicktimes with window burn. The NVIDIA Quadro FX5600 was faster in processing the footage. I haven't had a chance to test it again. We weren't sure which card to purchase initially though now I'm thinking the NVIDIA Quadro FX5600 is the way to go.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks sharon! That's good to know. It would be reasonable to expect the FX5600 to be faster as it has 3X as much RAM and a faster core clock speed. I'm not sure if I can justify the extra expense though just for REDCINE, especially for most users here who may not have other apps to justify it. For just a little more than the Quadro upgrade, you can buy a second Mac Pro system for processing.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

. The NVIDIA Quadro FX5600 was faster in processing the footage. I haven't had a chance to test it again. .

one test isn't enough especialy you didn't compare it with the second unite you have with 8800

[sharon diaz]

Yes one test isn't enough, though it is something. I only posted the information because I found it useful. As a user I like to know what others in the industry are experiencing.
Also I would agree not buying the FX5600 just for Redcine, we purchased it for our other apps. The FX5600 smoked the 8800GT by a few hours. In my world of commercials two or three hours means pleasing clients.

[Poi Boy]

I'm leaning towards the 8800 but would really like to know if multiple 2600s might be faster. Any educated guesses from all the mensa people out there ?
Aloha
-A

[Poi Boy]

Just got an e mail back from Rob at barefeats and he said that multiple 2600s will not speed up the graphics processing. It only helps if you have more displays. So I guess I can order my new Mac now.
Aloha
-A

[David Cox]

Sorry guys,

Its been a little crazy around here too. Minimal testing on both Red Alert and Red Cine seem to work with no issues. Rob, if there is a benchmark test you would like me to run, let me know.

Mac Pro 3.2 GHz 8 core 16 GB Ram - (FW800 source) render to boot drive.
Test: RedAlert
Debayer - full
Output - DPX
Size - 311 frames
2k 2048 x 1152
Time - 124 seconds
Denoise - mild

Hope this gives you a feel.

Dave

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks Dave, any info is good info.

Apple did ship mine and FedEx has it... I get it tomorrow and will commence on some testing on thursday or friday once I get the thing all set up.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

So Your Render Rate is Something like 10 to 1 ? right ?:excl:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Roughly 0.39 seconds to render each of those 2K frames. Was the input file also 2K or is that being scaled from 4K (or 3K)?

Anyway, kinda slow for those used to a video workflow. Comparing with a DI workflow, this is super fast in contrast to having film developed and scanned. It's also fast for those of us used to a CG / animation workflow. I used to be stoked when I could keep my animation frames rendering at 5min per frame or less. :)

I think in a few more software generations with better optimization, we'll see some big improvements. Faster computers in the next couple years too... It will be real-time on a notebook at some point. The wait for that day to come is going to seem a lot longer than it really is.

[David Cox]

Here's a few more. Obviously, processing time will take a hit with scaling.

Test: RedAlert
Debayer - full
Input: 2k 2048 x 1152
Output - 2k ProRes HQ - No Scale
Size - 311 frames
Time - 51 seconds
Denoise - mild

Scaling:

Test: RedAlert
Debayer - full
Input: 4k 2:1
Output - 2k ProRes HQ 2048 x 1024 - Scale
Size - 311 frames
Time - 210 seconds
Denoise - mild

Dave

[Adrian T.]

Dave, as far as I know RedAlert doesn't use the graphics card for processing, it's all processor based. So if you want to test the NVIDIA performance, you need to use RedCine.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That is correct. RED Alert does not make use of the GPU and I don't think it's as capable in other areas. Need REDCINE benchmarks. I guess my brain ignored RED Alert being mentioned on the other previous post.

It's still a good test though... I'm also going to be doing some serious testing with REDLine and various ways to configure it.

[David Cox]

REDCINE is being tested now. Will post shortly.

Dave

[David Cox]

RedCine - Nvidia 8800 Test

4k to 2K 50% scale
312 frames (24fps)
Apple ProRes HQ
Detail: High
NR: Low
Quality: High
Filter: linear
Process: Full
Elapsed time 201 seconds
Quicktime info:
309.43 mb
Rate: 199 mbit second
13 seconds of footage (24fps)

Dave

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Correct me if i am wrong Dave . i see(fast reading ) that your Red alert is faster processing tan redcine ? is that correct ?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The way I'm reading his tests so far is that the REDCINE test is 9 seconds faster than the same operation in RED Alert.

REDCINE - 0.644 seconds per frame

REDALERT - 0.673 seconds per frame.

Apparently the GPU doesn't make much difference, but something is happening. Even if the difference is slight (8~9 seconds over 300 frames), that can be a big deal. Let's say you have to process 2 hours worth of footage shot at 24fps, that's 172800 frames. With the current benchmarks we get:

RED ALERT = 32.3 hours

REDCINE = 30.912 hours

Dave mentioned above that he's using a FW800 source and rendering to the boot drive. I wonder how much of an impact we might see if disk I/O is on a fast RAID?

[David Cox]

RedCine: No Scale

2K 2048x1152
312 frames (24fps)
Apple ProRes HQ
Detail: Med
NR: Low
Quality: High
Filter: linear
Process: Full
Elapsed time 73 seconds
Quicktime info:
308.59 mb
Rate: 199 mbit second
13 seconds of footage (24fps)

This seems to take longer than RedAlert as well. I could be a little more scientific about this, but just trying to get something to you all. I will try a 3 drive internal raid0 tomorrow and see if things change.
I checked my read performance with Quickbench and only seeing about 25mb/sec on my hardware Raid1 enclosure (FW800). Maybe that's a bottleneck? Write is at about 55mb/sec however.
I'd be interested in other users results as well. Jeff your up tomorrow!

Dave

[Andrew Madu]

I checked my read performance with Quickbench and only seeing about 25mb/sec on my hardware Raid1 enclosure (FW800). Maybe that's a bottleneck? Write is at about 55mb/sec however.
I'd be interested in other users results as well. Jeff your up tomorrow!

Hmmm...seems a few of the new Memoright 2.5 128GB SSD's (100MB/s read, >100MB/s write, .1ms access) may ease the burden somewhat:

http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=dvnation&product_name=Memoright+2.5+128GB+SATA+SSD&exact_match=exact

I intend to get a few of these puppies myself. The SATA II based SSD devices, due out some time in April, will be even faster.

Here is the main page: http://www.dvnation.com/nand-flash-ssd.html

---
Peace & Love

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Thanks a lot Dave we will be waiting .for your valuable test

[Gunleik Groven]

I had (unofficially) pretty much 1 minute pr 100 frames from 4k 16:9 to 2k prores.

No processing to the image No NR or sharpening) every setting @ highest possible. Having a timer and firefox running in the background.

As I said: No science, but a lot better than when I started...

MP 2,8X8
8 gb RAM
ATI
3x750 GB sata internal RAID 0 for read & write

Gunleik

[Poi Boy]

Gunleik,
What ATI card ?
-A

[Adrian T.]

Gunleik,
are you running under 10.5.2 now?
but still QT 7.3, right?

[Gunleik Groven]

The standard ATI, 10.5.2, qt 7.3.1

I think I'll rather buy more 8-cores than big GPU's, for now.
I'll have to test DPX renders as well, but things improved quite a bit with more RAM and a RAID-0

I though I'd need 8-20 of these machines, now I'm thinking maybe more like 5-10...

+ RAIDS etc.

So, if we only could make RedCine or FCP play out to a Kona @ SR rates...

But things are moving along nicely.

Gunleik

[David Cox]

Jeff,

Noticed your quietly running Quicktime7.4.1

How are things going with this update. Any other issues with the 8800 or in general?

Dave

[Matt Steinauer]

Did Rob Lohman post any results on which Mac card works best for RC/RA?

[Jeff Coatney]

Hey Rob,

What type of Mac Pro system should I buy? What configuration is testing best right now?

[Rob Lohman]

I've done prelimenary testing with both the latest ATI & NVidia in the Mac Pro and they seem to perform about the same with REDCINE!

On a different note QuickTime 7.4.5 seems to have resolved our issue with the white movies on Tiger!

[Curran Giddens]

Thanks for that Rob. That is about all I really wanted to know.

[Adrian T.]

Rob, what about the poor proxy performance on the new Mac Pros?

Remember these posts:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=138560&postcount=3 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=138560&postcount=3)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139148&postcount=13 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139148&postcount=13)

And the last we heard from you there:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139024&postcount=7 (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139024&postcount=7)

Funny thing is that the proxies run smoothly in Final Cut Pro, but they still use up almost all 8 cores.