View Full Version : Nikon 10.5mm DX fisheye
Teague Kennedy
03-10-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm still looking for the best way to get ultra wide or fisheye out of RED. (at a reasonable price). I will probably get a nikkor 17-35, but that will not do me for wide angle. Does the 10.5 (which is a DLSR lens- so should be MUCH wider than a 10mm SLR lens) have a manual aperature? If not, is there a Nikon DSLR(with DSLR coverage) ultra wide that does have manual controls?
chuck colburn
03-10-2007, 08:55 PM
I'm still looking for the best way to get ultra wide or fisheye out of RED. (at a reasonable price). I will probably get a nikkor 17-35, but that will not do me for wide angle. Does the 10.5 (which is a DLSR lens- so should be MUCH wider than a 10mm SLR lens) have a manual aperature? If not, is there a Nikon DSLR(with DSLR coverage) ultra wide that does have manual controls?
FOR WHAT FORMAT.
Nikon made an 8mm fisheye lens. That lens has manual apperature control and is super wide and bendy. It isn't optically great but has an interesting look. Many companies manufactured different housings for them making them a cine style lens with gearing and better marks. They aren't hard to find.
-mjc
Mick van Rossum nsc
03-11-2007, 01:34 AM
There is a cheap and bargain-for-its-price peleng 8mm fish eye. They go for 350-400 US $ with PL mount on ebay. Manual aperture. When using it on a 24x36 camera the round edge are very poor, but with the smaller FOV of the red these are not visible.
Teague Kennedy
03-11-2007, 08:14 AM
FOR WHAT FORMAT.
For 4k. Brook posted some sensor size informationt that showed the Nikon DSLR coverage is very similar in size to Red 4k. It seems to me that using a regular 35 mm lens in 8mm to get the equivalent FOV of 12mm on Red 4k, you are going to loose some optical quality -- better to use an 11mm DSLR lens to get same FOV....
Dominic Jones
03-11-2007, 10:07 AM
It seems to me that using a regular 35 mm lens in 8mm to get the equivalent FOV of 12mm on Red 4k, you are going to loose some optical quality -- better to use an 11mm DSLR lens to get same FOV....
Whoa, hold on - an 8mm lens is an 8mm lens, regardless of gate size - an 11mm DX lens on Red *will not* give you the same FoV as an 8mm SLR lens on Red. The only lens that will give you an 8mm FoV on Red (or any format) is an 8mm lens. The different systems lenses are designed for only affect their area of acceptable coverage, FoV does not change for a given lens on a given system, regardless of coverage.
As a point of reference, an 11mm DX lens on Red would give you the equivalent FoV of about a 17mm SLR lens on an SLR.
The confusion is in the conversion factors - an 8mm lens on Red will give you an equivalent FoV to around a 12mm lens on an SLR, but that does not change the lens needed for a given FoV on the Red - 8mm is 8mm, end of story.
You might get faster, or less distorted, lenses for the smaller coverage systems like DX (as compared to 135 lenses), but the length of lens required for a given FoV will not be different...
Teague Kennedy
03-11-2007, 10:38 AM
Whoa, hold on - an 8mm lens is an 8mm lens, regardless of gate size - an 11mm DX lens on Red *will not* give you the same FoV as an 8mm SLR lens on Red. The only lens that will give you an 8mm FoV on Red (or any format) is an 8mm lens. The different systems lenses are designed for only affect their area of acceptable coverage, FoV does not change for a given lens on a given system, regardless of coverage.
As a point of reference, an 11mm DX lens on Red would give you the equivalent FoV of about a 17mm SLR lens on an SLR.
The confusion is in the conversion factors - an 8mm lens on Red will give you an equivalent FoV to around a 12mm lens on an SLR, but that does not change the lens needed for a given FoV on the Red - 8mm is 8mm, end of story.
You might get faster, or less distorted, lenses for the smaller coverage systems like DX (as compared to 135 lenses), but the length of lens required for a given FoV will not be different...
Here is my problem: I need EXTREME wide. If I use an SLR 35mm lens that is 17mm it will NOT be nearly as wide as it is on the 35mm. So I may have mixed up my wording -- you are right that the 11mm on the DX would give same fov as about 17mm SLR lens on SLR, but a 180 degree DSLR lens would yield nearly 180 degrees on the red at 4k, while a 180 degree SLR lens would yield nowhere near 180 degrees on Red at 4k... this is why I am thinking it would be a better choice to go with a NIKON DSLR lens instead of NIKON SLR lens for super wide. (If they make one with manual controls.)
Jim Arthurs
03-11-2007, 11:11 AM
There is a cheap and bargain-for-its-price peleng 8mm fish eye. They go for 350-400 US $ with PL mount on ebay. Manual aperture. When using it on a 24x36 camera the round edge are very poor, but with the smaller FOV of the red these are not visible.
I've used the Peleng to great effect on my 35mm film cameras with Nikon mounts (my Peleng has a Nikon mount currently). Here is the FOV one gives to an average exterior scene.
http://www.timelapsesource.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=27
The mm size of the scanned area in this case is 21.94mm by 12.34mm.
I hope this helps...
Teague Kennedy
03-11-2007, 11:22 AM
That looks nice Jim. If the scanned area we are seeing is 21.94x12.34 then it is close to what we can expect at 4K. Do you find this lens delivers a high enough resolution for 4k? or at least for finishing at 1080p?
Jim Arthurs
03-11-2007, 12:08 PM
The lens is surprisingly good... I don't see why not. Somewhere, someone on this forum posted actual test results with line pairs.
In my case, I want to have it re-mounted to either PL or Nikon... right now it has a universal mount and a Nikon adapter ring that doesn't deliver perfect flange depth...
Anyone have suggestions on where I could send it for re-mounting?
Jeff Kilgroe
03-11-2007, 01:54 PM
Peleng fisheyes keep showing up on ebay with Nikon mounts for $250. You may do best just to buy one of those instead of going for a re-mount. I've been looking for one in a PL mount as I've heard they exist, but so far nothing. I'll probably pick up a Nikon mount one though since I plan on using all my Nikon glass with RED anyway, even if I do buy the RED zoom.
Jim Arthurs
03-11-2007, 02:49 PM
Thanks Jeff... interestingly, all the e-bay kits are exactly like mine... the lens has a native bayonet "N" mount with an m42 (or other model) adapter... and it's that adapter that's the bad guy... maybe I can find a different adapter made to better standards. Perhaps the PL mount versions are true re-mounts...
BTW, here are some interesting links on the Peleng and other circular fisheye solutions for our smaller than full still sized target sensors...
http://www.naturfotograf.com/D1_fisheye_1,html.htm
http://www.muellerworld.com/peleng/
http://www.nearfield.com/%7Edan/Photo/wide/fish/
http://www.pauck.de/marco/photo/stuff/peleng_fisheye/peleng_fisheye.html
Jim Arthurs
03-11-2007, 03:08 PM
Ah, here we go... PL conversion info...
http://www.longvalleyequip.com/lens.php
Evin Grant
03-11-2007, 04:05 PM
Seems you can buy the Nikon mount version here...
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/peleng_fisheye_nikon_lens.htm
as well as a better adapter.
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/nikon_lens_adapter_with_lens.htm
Teague Kennedy
03-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Nice searching, guys. I'm very excited about that! Now I'm ready for my Red.
Jim Arthurs
03-11-2007, 05:05 PM
Thanks Evin... I'll get that Nikon adapter for my lens... the current crappy one puts infinity focus at 6" from the lens front!
Jeff Kilgroe
03-11-2007, 08:15 PM
Jim,
I took a look at ebay... You're right about them not being true Nikon mount versions. Although, there have been such on there before - I almost bought one about a month ago. And I see Evin's rugfit link shows them. i might grab one of these to play around with. The guys with teh PL conversion sell the Peleng on a PL mount for $800 so that my be an option too.
Edit> Nevermind, the Peleng from Rugfit also includes a Nikon adapter.
Teague Kennedy
03-16-2007, 11:47 AM
something I didn't think of... I wonder how hard it will be to get an ND on this peleng. It will bring in alot of light in the daytime. Will wide matte box work without vignetting?
Jim Arthurs
03-16-2007, 01:30 PM
something I didn't think of... I wonder how hard it will be to get an ND on this peleng. It will bring in alot of light in the daytime. Will wide matte box work without vignetting?
No way, no how on full frame 35mm, as it puts the whole circle on the frame...
Your best bet would be to get some behind the lens filters from the company listed earlier that sells the PL mounted versions... My gut is telling me matte boxes will have issues, even on the tighter FOV of the RED/DSLR sized sensors. I might be wrong, having not checked or done the math...
BTW, I did order one of the higher quality Nikon mounting adapters for the Peleng that Evin reported on... I'll follow up when I get it. It took the whole week to get a confirmation that they got my PayPal info and were ready to ship... strange...
Martin Drew
03-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Anyone have suggestions on where I could send it for re-mounting?
I know Les Bosher (http://www.lesbosher.co.uk/) does them in the UK. That's probably a bit out of the way for you Jim, but it might be worth sending him an email, he may be able to recommend someone in the US.
M
I wrote this and then realised I hadn't read half the posts on the thread... Doh!!
Martin Drew
03-16-2007, 01:48 PM
RAF Camera sell it with the PL mount
http://rafcamera.com/8mm-circular-fisheye-lens-peleng-p-131.html (http://rafcamera.com/8mm-circular-fisheye-lens-peleng-p-131.html) for $449
M
Jim Arthurs
03-16-2007, 03:36 PM
Thanks Martin... they also sell what seems to be custom behind the lens filters in 85 and 85/ND's... which was the link I was referring to in my earlier post. You MUST have at least the clear UV filter for focus to go to infinity.
I can't wait to try the new Nikon mount with my lens... hopefully I'll finally be able to hit infinity...