Which LCD?

[Ivan G]

Can I get some Pros and Cons feedback on these units? I've tried searching for older posts I know I've seen but had no luck finding them.

[Tonaci Tran]

Primary benefit right now for the panny onboard is that it has hd-sdi loopthrough which is currently the only workaround (unless you have an EVF) to get a working onboard monitor and extra output for the director's monitor.

RED LCD: lightweight and lower power consumption. To me, essential for handheld work as the other monitors are larger and heavy.

Multiple outputs is around the corner so factor that in as well.

I don't think you can loop the hd-sdi output on the marshall to go to another monitor, but I could be wrong.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

VOTED for red .:bleh:

[Ivan G]

Although I've heard it's been tough getting a sharp focus from the RED LCD and as I will be working alone sometimes this is a critical part.

[Vigen Vartanov]

Cinema Display With DeckLInk HD :) Cheaper solution. Add it please to Vote

[Alexander Nikishin]

Marshall V-R70P-HDSDI
800H x 480V
$1,500

Panasonic BT-LH900A
1024 x 768
$4,000

Both have a loop-through in/out hd-sdi feed so you can send a signal to the director's monitor.

I wouldn't go without the RED monitor because it's just that good. Very light, great price, low power consumption.

Between the Panasonic and the Marshall.....The Panasonic is obviosuly a better monitor, but at the cost of $2,500 more.

Also, neither are native 720P, so I wouldn't be surprised if they both looked nearly the same. I've worked with both and found the Panasonic to be waaaay too heavy but liked the waveform feature, then again, the RED has a built-in waveform. I own a Marshall 7" but it's the non-hd-sdi model. It's been dropped a million times but still works and looks great.

IMO, you should go down to the nearest shop and take a look at both before you purchase one.

[Ivan G]

Both have a loop-through in/out hd-sdi feed so you can send a signal to the director's monitor.

Isn't simultaneous output supposed to be added with next Build (15)?
If not then it is wise to purchase an LCD with a I/O loop.

Thanks for the feedback Alex!

[Ivan G]

Cinema Display With DeckLInk HD :) Cheaper solution. Add it please to Vote

I'm talking about onboard LCD's. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Dominic Jones]

Should still add the Carrion series though - they look good and are well priced. Not sure about loop-through on those though?

[Alexis Vanier]

Can anyone share their experience with TransVideo monitors? If I'm not mistaken they're the stock ones on the new Steadicams.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

One thing to keep in mind about the RED LCD that most people never mention... It communicates with the camera. You can push the button on top of the LCD to change display modes, do zoom in for focus assist, etc.. Hopefully, LCD, EVF buttons will all be assignable to any function.

The RED LCD is small and light. Great visibility (for an LCD) when in sunlight. IMO, if you're not getting the RED EVF, you have to get the RED LCD. The Panasonic 900A is great for a compact SDI interface monitor. It would be a great choice in place of the RED LCD if you're getting the EVF. But, IMO, you have to have either the RED LCD or EVF on your camera to take advantage of all the camera functions.

[Ivan G]

I am definitely getting the EVF but also like a sharp LCD when 4K shooting.

[siniarch]

You can try my monitor "The Carrion"
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5170&highlight=carrion

I tried it with Red #41 (Manny) a while back and it performed excellent. and I also brought it to a shoot that used the red.


and yes it does HD-SDI pass through. It also has HDMI input, component HD, etc.. (see the specs) Hope it helps.
Luis

[Barry Green]

Hey siniarch, if your Carrion could support 1280x848 mode in HDMI, you'd really have something that a Red user could use. Did you try it that way? Does it support that mode?

[Ivan G]

You can try my monitor "The Carrion"
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5170&highlight=carrion

I tried it with Red #41 (Manny) a while back and it performed excellent. and I also brought it to a shoot that used the red.


and yes it does HD-SDI pass through. It also has HDMI input, component HD, etc.. (see the specs) Hope it helps.
Luis

Who sells this unit and how much?

[siniarch]

Hi Barry,
What do you mean 1280x848 in HDMI. I came out of the RED HDMI into the carrion DVI by using a simple HMDI to DVi cable.
the monitor Physical resolution is 1024x768, but it can handle up to 1900x1200 images in DVI and all the HD footage you can throw at it.

[siniarch]

Hi Abu,
I sell the units you can check out my website below.

[Barry Green]

Hi Barry,
What do you mean 1280x848 in HDMI. I came out of the RED HDMI into the carrion DVI by using a simple HMDI to DVi cable.
the monitor Physical resolution is 1024x768, but it can handle up to 1900x1200 images in DVI and all the HD footage you can throw at it.

The Red outputs a signal on its HDMI connection that is 1280x848. It's not a "video" signal, it's a computer-compatible mode and it includes all the menus and focus assist and waveform and such. In the 1280x720 mode it doesn't include all the "goodness" so it's really only usable as a client monitor, not as an operator's monitor.

I'm asking if your monitor can receive and display that 1280x848 HDMI signal. (obviously it'd need to be scaled, but the question is can it even do it at all? Not all monitors can display that mode).

[siniarch]

Barry,
is there a setting in the red to send out 1280x720 vs. 1280x848, or does it always send out 1280x848?

[Barry Green]

Yes, but 1280x720 is not useful for an operator. That mode only shows the picture, but not really any of the menu stuff or waveform or assists. You really, really, really want 1280x848 on your HDMI monitor. That's where it becomes useful for the operator.

Without that, it could be used as a client's monitor or director's monitor, but the camera operator MUST have a Red LCD or EVF at that point. But if the Carrion (or other HDMI monitor) supports the 1280x848, then the operator could use that *instead* of a Red LCD or EVF. (not that I'm advising someone to do that, but pointing out that it becomes possible).

If someone were to entertain buying an LCD other than the Red's LCD or EVF, that LCD must support 1280x848 from HDMI (or HDMI->DVI) or else it's functionally useless as a camera operator's monitor.

[siniarch]

well, I'll have to check next time I'm near a red. (of if there are any reds in LA i'd come by with my monitor to try it out)

At the shoot we had the Red outputing 1280x768 so no menus, but I didn't know there was an option on the menu to change that.

My monitor supports almost any mode you throw at it from a computer, so I'm guessing it should handle this 1280x848. But I can't claim that unti I test it. So, I'll keep you posted.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Barry, i'm not quite sure about this statement but to my knowledge the menu system is only fed out through the lemo connector, key phrase being not quite sure.

If it is possible to see the menu system through a 1280x848 hdmi feed, that would be great though!

Siniarch, I wouldn't mind coming by and checking out the Carrion, pm me your contact info and we'll setup a meeting.

*Edit, thinking about it now, I don't believe that would be possible Barry, the hdmi feed is only a preview feed (1280x720) dvi-based.

With the release of the forthcoming 1080P firmware, it may then be possible to utilize the menu feed, until then, I believe it's a no-go.

[Barry Green]

Barry, i'm not quite sure about this statement but to my knowledge the menu system is only fed out through the lemo connector, key phrase being not quite sure.
No, they go out the HDMI as well when you have the cam in "HDMI (DVI)" mode.


If it is possible to see the menu system through a 1280x848 hdmi feed, that would be great though!
It does, but again, only in HDMI (DVI) mode. When you have the cam set to PVW (or EVF+PVW) then it outputs a 720p signal. But in HDMI mode it outputs a computer-compatible 1280x848 with all menus and overlays.


*Edit, thinking about it now, I don't believe that would be possible Barry, the hdmi feed is only a preview feed (1280x720) dvi-based.
Trust me, it works. I've got it piped out to a Dell 2405 and it works fine. But I tried it to Obin's monitor and it didn't work at all. So not all monitors can display this mode. The Red operations guide mentions this as well, that it works to some monitors but not all.

[siniarch]

This makes a lot of sense Barry since we had the Red set up for PVW. next time I'll test it with HDMI(DVI) mode.

Alexander, I sent you a PM with my info so we can coordinate getting together. :)

[Alexander Nikishin]

Sounds good Siniarch.

Thanks for the clarification Barry.

[albert rudnicki]

Siniarch,
please post or pm me on the progress in testing the hdmi.
How long is the order to ship process?
Thanks

Thanks Barry for pointing this out.

[Chris Gearhart]

Although I've heard it's been tough getting a sharp focus from the RED LCD and as I will be working alone sometimes this is a critical part.

I dunno. A few times I pulled focus off it with no magnification, no focus assist, no measuring--just a quick and dirty eye (for SD downcoversion)--and I was really surprised. I thought I'd buzz them all in 4k, but it wasn't bad at all. I'd not recommend this for a big gig, but I also wouldn't scrap consideration for the LCD out of hand.

[Ivan G]

Since I'm purchasing a steadicam another situation arised in regards to viewing angle. After speaking to a pro on the boards he informed that the RED has a very narrow viewing angle. IMO I think I might just wait on getting my camera until NAB.

[siniarch]

Hey Barry,
So I tested last night with #81 and yes, I was able to get all the menus and zebras on the monitor through HDMI from camera to DVI in on the CARRION.

WOHHHoooo!!!!

It works!!!

I want to thank Sam Druckerman (owner of #81) for allowing me to conduct my test. He is a great guy and I would highly recommend anyone to rent from him. Very knowledgeable about the camera, but most importantly a great person. (I like to keep my circle of friends surrounded by people like him, if I can be so lucky!!!)

[Barry Green]

Well... grrr... man, I wish I woulda known about this before I torched the dough on the Panasonic!

[albert rudnicki]

Siniarch, great news !
Was there any cropping on the overlaid menus ?
Thanks

[Vigen Vartanov]

Please add Cinema Display . + HDMI to DVI converter ,
And Also add DeckLink HD + Apple Cinema Display
i will vote :)

[siniarch]

Hi Albert,

I don't believe there was any cropping. I think you are referring to seeing the top of the menu, but not able to see when you click on something. that is what I experience in the past because the red was set to PVW. and only outputting 1280x720

Last night we Sam set the camera to HDMI mode (1280x848) and it showed the whole menu. battery life, etc...

So this is great news for Red users. :) (oh yeah, and hopefully for me too.)

[Vigen Vartanov]

HDMI mode is very nice. but you can not youse long cabels . I get 7 meters HDMI to HDMI cabel + converter HDMI to DVI , It nice. But there is 1 way for me , i can get FiberChannel DVI to DVI cavel :) and will youse long distance.

[donatello b]

"HDMI mode is very nice. but you can not youse long cabels "

i use a 35ft HDMI and there is no picture breakup on Red ...
i have a 100 ft HDMI and it needs a little power ( power supply came with the HDMI cable )...without the power the RED picture has some lines running thru it ...

[Vigen Vartanov]

Thanks , what was price of 100Ft cabel. On forum they found wireless HDMI solution. 699 for 35 F .

[siniarch]

Hey guys,
I'm trying to put together a meeting to show my monitor to the local Los Angeles Red Users. Here is the thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=167885&postcount=68
Please take a look.
thanks,
Luis

[albert rudnicki]

I think it's a great idea Siniarch, it'll give a lot of people chance to see and test
the unit.
Albert

[Ivan G]

I just received my Carrion LCD yesterday. This is thing is a tank! Very well built, bright, wide viewing angle. Although i have yet to attach a red, I should be receiving mine early next week. Right hoover? Hoover: FOR SURE!

[siniarch]

Abu,
Hey, I'm glad you got it. Thank you for your comments. Please do report back when you plug it to your red. I think you will be very happy with the results.

Also I wasn't able to get a meeting together in LA for RED users. Seems like you guys are too busy, hahahahah. But if anyone would like to come by and plug their unit to it, I'd be more than happy to show it.

Also, I will be at NAB and its going to be at the Redrock Booth. I will also be walking around with a demo, so if you want to meet at NAB, just PM me and I'll send you my Cell number. :)

[Prem Edpuganti]

Abu,
Also, I will be at NAB and its going to be at the Redrock Booth. I will also be walking around with a demo, so if you want to meet at NAB, just PM me and I'll send you my Cell number. :)

Siniarch:

You are going to win lot of friends, and probably sell lot of these Carrion units because you are sincere, honest and above all humble in your comments.

I am a long ways off from buying my stuff, but I will certainly look you up when I am ready. I am planning on attending NAB and will stop by at the Redrock Booth.

Thanks for all the research and coming up with an alternative. That is what makes the Red system viable.

[Bruce Allen]

Just want to add my 2c here:

I've been involved on several shoots with the Carrion. It's superb.

The Red LCD is nice and light but is only 6-bit (has banding / dithering issues), plus very narrow viewing angles.

The Carrion is amazingly better in terms of brightness, color depth and viewing angles. Yes it's heavier, but you can configure it for handheld if you're clever.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the Marshall or Panasonic.

As you guys know I build my own monitors too. I've had about 20+ people waiting for me to sell me their monitor and recently sent out a group email telling them to stop bugging me and buy the Carrion instead ;)

Not that mine is bad, just that I never have time to build them - if there's something else good in production and it's good, I see no problem recommending it.

Oh, and Luis is a top-rate guy. Very smart and very honest, down-the-line genuine fellow.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[siniarch]

Prem Edpuganti:

Thanks for the post. I do hope to make lots of friends, and one enemy ( like a nemisis you know. I mean where would Superman be without Lex Luthor? he'd be at the circus as a strong man, thats where)

but seriously, if anyone wants to meet, please PM me. this is my first year attending and I would love to make the best of it by meeting fellow film makers. :)

Bruce:

What can I say? it has been my honor meeting you. Funny that we met before we even knew we were both making monitors. (I didn't want you to be my nemisis. I'd be too scared. hahahah) But I always knew we'd end up being friends even if we were competing for sales. (we were in a different market anyway)

So, thank you for your kind words and for mentioning my monitor.

To anyone that is contemplating working with Bruce, he is a great guy with alot alot of talent and a pleasure to work with and work for. Hopefully he will clear up some time of his busy schedule so that we may collaborate on something soon.

[Ivan G]

Does anyone else have the Carrion LCD? I hooked mine up today but could not figure out how to get info to display on the LCD. It works when I set it to bars but not camera signal.

[siniarch]

abu,
When you say info, do you mean the menu, or an image at all?
When you say you hooked it up, was it through HD-SDI or through the HDMI to the carrion DVI?
if you want the menus to show up on the monitor you have to do it through HDMI to the DVI of the CARRION. and I think you have to tell the RED to show HDMI display, which shoots out a non standard signal. instead of 1280x768, it shoots out 1280x848 or something like that.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the RED can chime in on where this setting is. if you keep having problems, let me know and I'll send you my cell number and we can get it resolved. I have a few friends with a red that we can firgure out your problem.

[Ivan G]

Sorry, I should of gave more detail. The GUI overlay isn't coming up on the LCD after trying to connect to both HDSDI and the preview. I have not tried the hdmi port. However I do get the title/action safe markers.

[siniarch]

Yes Abu,

Like I said on my post above, the GUI will not show up unless you use the HDMI port. and then you still have to set the menu on the RED to HDMI to shoot out the menus through that port.

Unfortunately, the GUI is not shown through the HD-SDI or the Preview, but its not an issue with the Monitor, the RED does not shoot out the GUI out of those connections.

I hope that makes sense.

What do you think of the image so far though?

[donatello b]

"you still have to set the menu on the RED to HDMI "

that depends on which firmware you are using ...
i believe with firmware 15 (HDMI) you have to set it to the "DVI menu" ...
if 13 then HDMI ... 14 ??

[siniarch]

Thanks Donatello,
I'm not very familiar with the RED Menus, and with all the updates and since I don't own one :( , its hard to keep up.
Luis

[mpallikonda]

Siniarch,
I have been reading reviews about your monitors from DVX user group days.
Now that, I have Red and my EVF arm is not so great, I want to look at the Carrion option. Can you suggest,
1. What model monitor (a/b/c) would I need for Red using HDMI (HDMI/DVI) connection.
2. What battery mount should I go for ? I have Pana HVX200 and two batteries including one from DVXuser.
3. How do I mount this on to Red ?
Please also let me know what would be the total weight with batteries.
Would really appreciate if you could PM me the price also.

Thanks very much.

[Michael Lindsay]

I've got an Astro DM 3010 with a Vlock (with spare D-tap) on the back...

I think it is the best reasonably price 8inch out there...
It does a 2:1 anamorphic as well..

Michael

PS You also need one of the red LCDs as well

[Lee Dashiell]

One thing no one has mentioned is the new RED 7" LCD monitor.

RED 7"
It's Contrast: 400:1
Brightness: 1000 nits
Viewing angle: 130 degrees H, 110 degrees V

RED 5"
Contrast: 250:1
Brightness: 550 nits
Viewing angle: 60 degrees H, 50 degrees V

The new 7inch RED LCD will be twice as bright with twice the angle view which is very helpful when you're shooting outside.