Assimilate Red Plugin for Premiere and After Effects

[Steve Freebairn]

Luki,

Would Assimilate ever make a Red plug-in to sell to Adobe users? I'm thinking of a plug-in that would allow for direct import of R3D files into Premiere and After Effects.

I think there would be a huge market for that kind of simple workflow, especially without the need for proxies.

[Maz Mawlawi]

I second that!

[Jay A. Kelley]

Ok, first off, Luki and his company would not do it. That would be handled by RED.

Can they do it? Sure... Unlike FCP, Adobe allows programmers into the Guts of Premiere so that they can write their own applications.. It's pretty cool.

Will it happen? Nope, not anytime soon. Their agreement with Apple makes it kind of tough.

The POTENTIAL of the software is incredible, but the politics of the company, at this time, severly limit the potential.

Things will change at NAB when they release it

Jay

[Ariana]

A friend at Adobe says they are working on RED support but have not spent much time on it due to other priorities.

[Paris Remillard]

How about .R3D import into Aperture/Lightroom/Photoshop. That'd be great. Thanks.

[Jay A. Kelley]

As I said, Adobe offers NO DIRECT support of any one codec (99.9% of the time) because they do not have too. They have an open platform program so vendors can install whatever they wish.

It's a very smart way to go

Jay

[Ariana]

Maybe REDcode support will be the .01% :)

At least thats what the inside info is alluding to.
Maybe no one is allowed to talk about this yet but it's
pretty exciting.

[Greg David]

Adobe still does not even support DVC PRO.

[Joel Kaye]

The Cineform guys will likely be the conduit to Adobe R3D access. I'm not sure if PC based Premiere is easier for them to deal with than the OSX version though. Maybe David can clue us in a little.

I'm still on the fence about buying a new Mac. Perhaps I'll get it and run XP on it.

[Ariana]

Why would adobe go through cineform if they could support redcode directly?

I wouldn't want to pay for a cineform license to use Premier.

[Joel Kaye]

Why would adobe go through cineform if they could support redcode directly?


Because Adobe wouldn't have to spend any time or money figuring out how to support .002% of their customer base.

If Cineform produces a superior solution to the one that ends up in Final Cut a lot of people will pay for it. If not, then no one will. If Cineform figures out how to get R3D's working in After Effects for compositing then they'll really have something.

[vsv]

Real working solution for Premiere is r3d2CineformRAW:
http://cineform.blogspot.com/2008/01/cineforms-red-one-footage-convertor.html

[Lucas Wilson]

Luki,

Would Assimilate ever make a Red plug-in to sell to Adobe users? I'm thinking of a plug-in that would allow for direct import of R3D files into Premiere and After Effects.

I think there would be a huge market for that kind of simple workflow, especially without the need for proxies.

Hi,

Short answer - no.

We don't own the R3D format, we don't own the IP behind it, and we are not a plugin company. I believe that there is a great market for it... for someone else.

Thanks for thinking of us, though. : )

Lucas

[Evin Grant]

For the foreseeable future the only non Red Apps. that can/will natively handle R3ds are Scratch and FCP. At least from my understanding.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Evin,

Foreseeable meaning up until April. So long as Mr. Jannard keeps his promise, which I fully expect he will.

Jay

[Mark L. Pederson]

For the foreseeable future the only non Red Apps. that can/will natively handle R3ds are Scratch and FCP. At least from my understanding.
Well Evin - that depends on what's you define as the "foreseeable" future?

If you ask me what I "foresee" - I'd tell you Apple, Adobe, Quantel and some others - will natively handle R3ds sooner than you think.

That is my OPINION. I don't have an understanding of this subject (although would love to - but I go to sleep at night trusting in Jim decisions. He has done pretty damn good so far.)

And I know Assimilate has made significant contributions to Red - and although everyone knows I think Scratch is the greatest things since beautiful women and rock & roll - I think the folks that can't afford Scratch will have SEVERAL options -

My 2 cents.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Mark,

Remember you owe me a phone call because you were mean to me.

-sniff

:)

Jay

[Mark L. Pederson]

Mark,

Remember you owe me a phone call because you were mean to me.

-sniff

:)

Jay
PM'd you.

[Ariana]

Evin,

Foreseeable meaning up until April. So long as Mr. Jannard keeps his promise, which I fully expect he will.

Jay

That reads much like a barbed double edged comment filled with spite.

I would expect Mr. Jannard would do what's best for all the customers for both short and long term. The timing of when things happen should be contrasted to us receiving these fantastic cameras in 2012 if Jannard had not the bravery to build this camera. They deserve some trust for thinking about the customer a 1000 times more than any other company.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I would expect Mr. Jannard would do what's best for all the customers for both short and long term. The timing of when things happen should be contrasted to us receiving these fantastic cameras in 2012 if Jannard had not the bravery to build this camera. They deserve some trust for thinking about the customer a 1000 times more than any other company.
Post of Year so far.

[Jay A. Kelley]

That reads much like a barbed double edged comment filled with spite.

I would expect Mr. Jannard would do what's best for all the customers for both short and long term. The timing of when things happen should be contrasted to us receiving these fantastic cameras in 2012 if Jannard had not the bravery to build this camera. They deserve some trust for thinking about the customer a 1000 times more than any other company.

It should read with no subtext. Jim and I are fine. He said he's have the hooks released on or about NAB and I firmly believe him.

How wonderful Jim is has nothing to do with the timeline he's given us.

He know's how important the release of REDCode is to everyone, he's on it. He's told me this himself.

Please don't make trouble where there is none. A review of my past posts will show, when I have a problem with something I make is crystal clear.

:)

Jay

[laguun]

Adobe still does not even support DVC PRO.

Wrong.
Adobe does support DVCPRO in the current CS3 with Premiere/Aftereffects/Flash/Photoshop/Encore etc.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Laguun,

I think what the poster meant is that ADOBE ITSELF does not support the codec, rather the people at Panasonic have written the support for it INTO Adobe, and then it's released, just like with everyone else.

Jay

[laguun]

Laguun,

I think what the poster meant is that ADOBE ITSELF does not support the codec, rather the people at Panasonic have written the support for it INTO Adobe, and then it's released, just like with everyone else.

Jay

Ah, ok - then i misunderstood.
I just wanted to point out that Adobe meanwhile has an pretty impressive support for panasonic:
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/p2workflowguide.pdf

[Steve Freebairn]

If Adobe could do what they did for P2, but with R3D, I'd be way excited. We need to keep voicing our wants for Adobe so that they get heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Zach Hilton]

Squeak. Squeak.

[sparkhope]

If Adobe could do what they did for P2, but with R3D, I'd be way excited. We need to keep voicing our wants for Adobe so that they get heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

this sounds like it's not necessarily an Adobe issue as much as it is a Red issue. If adobe maintains an open architecture then it would be up to Red to develop the hooks...correct? But with all the FCP/RED fanfare, I wonder if there might be an exclusivity deal that may prevent further development? However, the recent rumors about FCP shopping ProApps around my change everything regarding any future development. Bottom line any inroads we see with Adobe will have to come from Red since they're the only one's that know Redcode (unless of course they open that up for others to develop)...

[Steve Freebairn]

this sounds like it's not necessarily an Adobe issue as much as it is a Red issue. If adobe maintains an open architecture then it would be up to Red to develop the hooks...correct? But with all the FCP/RED fanfare, I wonder if there might be an exclusivity deal that may prevent further development? However, the recent rumors about FCP shopping ProApps around my change everything regarding any future development. Bottom line any inroads we see with Adobe will have to come from Red since they're the only one's that know Redcode (unless of course they open that up for others to develop)...

Sorry I wasn't super clear, I was more thinking along the lines of Red working with Adobe like panasonic worked with Adobe.

Are you saying that Apple is trying to sell their pro apps to another company?

[laguun]

this sounds like it's not necessarily an Adobe issue as much as it is a Red issue. If adobe maintains an open architecture then it would be up to Red to develop the hooks...correct? But with all the FCP/RED fanfare, I wonder if there might be an exclusivity deal that may prevent further development?

Red confirmed that they have an exclusive deal with apple and assimilate and dont want adobe, avid, quantel, cineform, iridas, dvs, sony, thomson/CV, discreet, filmlight, pogle, da vinci, matrix etc to support redcode now. That was a mayor concern for many buyers.

However they also said that they will end this policy this april, which is dearly necessary as all workflows today are much more complicated and slow than the existing tape or film basing methods - you even need two different computers and os today. Most customers are hoping that things are evolving fast once the redraw fileformat is able to gain the industries support.



However, the recent rumors about FCP shopping ProApps around my change everything regarding any future development. Bottom line any inroads we see with Adobe will have to come from Red since they're the only one's that know Redcode (unless of course they open that up for others to develop)...
Once the fileformat is specified it will be rather logical that several 3hrd parties will offer native (and fast/topquality) redcode raw support plugins.

Adobe CS3 is indeed an pretty impressive product series, and most important, is able to work with reds maximum qaulity which FCS sadly isn´t.

[laguun]

Sorry I wasn't super clear, I was more thinking along the lines of Red working with Adobe like panasonic worked with Adobe.

Are you saying that Apple is trying to sell their pro apps to another company?
rumors in the internet, yes.
thomson/gv was mentioned as an interested party.

But as with all speculations in the web.......

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

If Adobe could do what they did for P2, but with R3D, I'd be way excited. We need to keep voicing our wants for Adobe so that they get heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Squeak. Squeak.

LOL. :)

[Dj Joofa]

Once the fileformat is specified it will be rather logical that several 3hrd parties will offer native (and fast/topquality) redcode raw support plugins.



Can you load those QT proxies in Adobe Products today?

[Zach Hilton]

Can you load those QT proxies in Adobe Products today?

I loaded the QT proxies into AE, and Premiere on a Mac Pro 8 core and it worked just fine for the most part. I say for the most part because on Premiere (at the time of testing, haven't done it since) there was what looked like a split screen in the footage where one part was darker than the other. Ae didn't have this issue.

[Lucas Wilson]

... you even need two different computers and os today. Most customers are hoping that things are evolving fast once the redraw fileformat is able to gain the industries support.

Laguun, do you have Final Cut Pro loaded on your Clipster? Do you have Media Composer loaded on your Clipster?

I don't know why you keep talking about two computers for two completely different functions as a bad thing.

One computer for editorial. One for finishing. It's really not a big deal. And when people are looking at the workflow, this concern is very far down on the list, if it even is a concern.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Dj Joofa]

I loaded the QT proxies into AE, and Premiere on a Mac Pro 8 core and it worked just fine for the most part. I say for the most part because on Premiere (at the time of testing, haven't done it since) there was what looked like a split screen in the footage where one part was darker than the other. Ae didn't have this issue.

Thanks for the information. Well, then it means for Adobe products people may not have to wait for the native import to work in the meantime, as Adobe can load them through Quicktime architecture.

[Rainer Fritz]

Will be interesting to work then with the _F.mov proxies in FCP and AE. At the moment AE opens the proxies well.

[laguun]

Laguun, do you have Final Cut Pro loaded on your Clipster? Do you have Media Composer loaded on your Clipster?

No, for one stop finishing we rather use XPRI Cobra for HDCAM, smoke or avid/speedgrade for 2K. Or simply Adobe CS3.



I don't know why you keep talking about two computers for two completely different functions as a bad thing.

Not only two computer but also two operation systems.

Not one source of human error, but two. Not one system to administrate but two. No instant changes on the system but always turnaround with potential errors. It requires time, doubled investments in audio/image monitoring/power etc, the workforce has to learn two applications and two operating systems instead of one etc etc.

You know, in former times, there were even separate computers for titling...



One computer for editorial. One for finishing. It's really not a big deal.

Offline editorial has only the reason that the computer isn´t up to the task and the computer who would is to expensive.

Offline editing will disappear once computers are powerful enough.

Its just an expression of the weaknesses of actual PCs for 2K/4K. Nobody would premaster audio on mp3, nobodoy would design print in 25dpi. In the world of moving images many still do as many computers are still not up to the task. Remember AVR3s?



And when people are looking at the workflow, this concern is very far down on the list, if it even is a concern.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Not here, we offer a one-stop solution, as its faster, cheaper and more creative.

Let me ask me a question - do you think that the discreet smoke would be as popular as it is in the commercial/series market if you couldn´t edit with it?

[laguun]

I loaded the QT proxies into AE, and Premiere on a Mac Pro 8 core and it worked just fine for the most part. I say for the most part because on Premiere (at the time of testing, haven't done it since) there was what looked like a split screen in the footage where one part was darker than the other. Ae didn't have this issue.

I didn´t test Adobe CS3 on osx yet, and would like to know how many frames per second you got with the QT-proxies in Premiere Pro.

[Zach Hilton]

I didn´t test Adobe CS3 on osx yet, and would like to know how many frames per second you got with the QT-proxies in Premiere Pro.

I'll have to check that in the morning. It wasn't a very scientific test, so there are a bunch of factors that play into it. My friend got real time off of 1/2k and 1k proxies if I remember right. But I'll check and post back when I get back to work.

[Lucas Wilson]

No, for one stop finishing we rather use XPRI Cobra for HDCAM, smoke or avid/speedgrade for 2K. Or simply Adobe CS3.

Not only two computer but also two operation systems. Not one source of human error, but two. Not one system to administrate but two. No instant changes on the system but always turnaround with potential errors. It requires time, doubled investments in audio/image monitoring/power etc, the workforce has to learn two applications and two operating systems instead of one etc etc.

Quite a few facilities view this as a *plus*. You point out the negatives. But you could also look at it this way:

1) Two computers means spreading catastrophic data loss risk
2) Two computers = twice the work. While SystemB is finishing, SystemA can be starting the next job
3) More tools = more offerings to make to clients

And learning two applications and two operating systems just really isn't a valid argument at all. Probably just about everybody on this forum and certainly most of the post professionals I work with are versatile if not fluent in OSX and XP. IT departments at any major facility work fluidly with XP, OSX, Linux, and (usually) Irix.

One stop finishing is a great offering and absolutely has its advantages and its place in a post pipeline.

But it is not the only way to do business, and for a LOT of jobs, it is also not the best way to do business.


Offline editing will disappear once computers are powerful enough.

I used to believe that as well. I've changed my mind over the years. Offline is such a different task with different skills and different timeframes that I believe they will always be fundamentally separate. Especially for feature work, which can be in editorial for months at a time.


Not here, we offer a one-stop solution, as its faster, cheaper and more creative.

And I'm sure you do it very well and it works for your business. I'm just pointing out that because you are successful with it does not mean that model is the only model and applies to everyone and every market.


Let me ask me a question - do you think that the discreet smoke would be as popular as it is in the commercial/series market if you couldn´t edit with it?

No doubt. Smoke's success is due to its all-in-one capability. But at least in LA, Chicago, London, and NYC - the four biggest commercial markets in the world - offline editing is not done on Smoke. The vast majority of commercial editing is done at editorial boutiques and the online and finishing are done on Smoke. Look at any edition of Creativity, AdWeek, Shoot, etc. The credits for major ads are *always* split with editorial at one facility and finishing at another.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Maz Mawlawi]

I really think once Cineform is "allowed" to continue development and support for RED files, it will most likely be the easiest and most robust workflow for its pricepoint. The problem is we have to wait for RED to finish their code...hopefully this won't take for ever. As it stands currently, Redcine is pretty much unusable for some of us...

[laguun]

Quite a few facilities view this as a *plus*. You point out the negatives. But you could also look at it this way:

1) Two computers means spreading catastrophic data loss risk

If one has the finishing (FC) and the other the editing (scratch), crashing one will crash the project. so indeed its double the risk.
Same as with raids, the more disk one adds, the higher the failure quota.
IT 101.

IF your argument should be correct, then both system would need redundant functionality, being able to do the same. But that is the opposite of what is needed now.



2) Two computers = twice the work. While SystemB is finishing, SystemA can be starting the next job

Once more, that would be possible if both systems could perform the same tasks. But you are indeed once more in the opposite situation. If you have to go back to re-edit something on the OSX/FCS / WIN/SC combi, both systems are blocked. If both could do the same, that would be no problem.

Furthermore, in the FCS/Scratch combi tons of stuff have to be done specific. How do you output an webstream or bluray master from scratch, or how do you import the finished 10bit VFX into FCS? All that is pretty limiting and certainly not -adding- productivity, but requiring logistics and supervision.



3) More tools = more offerings to make to clients

You neither need two OS nor two computers for more tools.



And learning two applications and two operating systems just really isn't a valid argument at all. Probably just about everybody on this forum and certainly most of the post professionals I work with are versatile if not fluent in OSX and XP.

Certainly not. Any editor i know personally who has had more than once the #1 in the cinemaboxoffice is a -single platform- user. And most of them are well above 50 and completly unwilling to learn the respective "other" OS.



IT departments at any major facility work fluidly with XP, OSX, Linux, and (usually) Irix.

Sure, but the average indie and the average agency doenßt want to have to contact or consult the -IT dept-, they want to have, an easy straightforward solution. And work with the partners they prefer, not with the one who has the matching NLE or DI, as 35mm, hdcam SR, Thomson Viper, 65mm, heck even digibeta work with all standard workflows.



I used to believe that as well. I've changed my mind over the years. Offline is such a different task with different skills and different timeframes that I believe they will always be fundamentally separate. Especially for feature work, which can be in editorial for months at a time.

There are editing systems and DI, and there are offline and online -quality-.
What was the last time you saw someone editing DV offline? Or sound? Have you come across -any- broadcast workflow which isnßt online anymore? Have you -ever- seen Avid editors using AVR3s in the last decade? Why are the lowest codecs of avid and apple all promoted as online, even dnaxh is above manybroadcast formats.

Nono, offline will go away. In -any- media industy which started offline in order to use computer which are not up to task, once the computer were powerful enough, offline went away. SD editing, Audio, and meanwhile also mostly 1080p.

editing systems which do not do DI, but edit for months, shure, they will still exist. But offline -quality- will fade away even further. 15 years ago, almost -any- spot/feature was offlined, i would be surprised if its still 50% today.





No doubt. Smoke's success is due to its all-in-one capability. But at least in LA, Chicago, London, and NYC - the four biggest commercial markets in the world - offline editing is not done on Smoke. The vast majority of commercial editing is done at editorial boutiques and the online and finishing are done on Smoke. Look at any edition of Creativity, AdWeek, Shoot, etc. The credits for major ads are *always* split with editorial at one facility and finishing at another.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

almost any market was 100% offline. for spots there are still many offliners, but they meanwhile often "offline" at 1080p. For broadcast they almost disappeared - and once the 10 Terrabyte disk is at 99$ we will see how many offline editing will remain. Many of the most succesful editors i know are now buying Adrenaline HDs for their Avids... because they want to edit in 1080p, simply as -everyone- likes is better.

my position is clear: offline makes sense, but -only- if the used computer is to weak.

[Thomas Mathai]

I have worked in a multi-platform environment for years. There are advantages and disadvantages to every platform.

While I think it's fine to have a preference for one over the other, it doesn't make sense to be completely one platform centric anymore.

If the bleeding edge is making you feel uncomfortable, come back in a year or so after your competition has figured it all out.

[laguun]

I have worked in a multi-platform environment for years. There are advantages and disadvantages to every platform.
While I think it's fine to have a preference for one over the other, it doesn't make sense to be completely one platform centric anymore.

we use irix, linux, osx and windows. irix is fading away here, osx is rather an island (mainly as compability FCS stations), linux is most of the backbone and the sony, discreet, adobe (and realviz, avid etcs) system are all windows basing.



If the bleeding edge is making you feel uncomfortable, come back in a year or so after your competition has figured it all out.
Thanks for the advice Mathai, but that wasnt why we ordered our reds in 2006.

furthermore we have had -already then- 4k workflows in the house, and they were not bleeding edge even back then. for any usual tradeshows $$$.$$$ or $.$$$.$$$ budget, you usually do large multiscreens, even 8K was no exception back then. I think we did a 9600*1080 for daimler chrysler in 2002.

Its not about the bleeding edge function, red has them mostly worked out (4K, S35mm sensor, raw recording format, >24/25p digital hir-res etc). Its about the -total- basics as Timecode and EDLs and an open fileformat. These don´t work good yet.

And if you consider speedgrade, fcs, scratch or adobe CS3 the edge, then you maybe should have a look at the systems which offer a full class more power, as clipster, baselight etc. They are years ahead in terms of sheer computation, bandwidth and dsp power and deliver functions most midlevel di systems (as the bespoken speedgrade or scratch) didn´t even announce yet, such as multistream, realtime, uncompressed, colorcorrected 4K with input and output to screens and data, networked and solid realtimeFX.

[Lucas Wilson]

Same as with raids, the more disk one adds, the higher the failure quota. IT 101.

IF your argument should be correct, then both system would need redundant functionality, being able to do the same. But that is the opposite of what is needed now.

Laguun, this particular thread has just worn me out. No time to respond... too busy selling SCRATCH to people to people who are pretty happy with the workflow as it stands - two OS, two machines and all. :)

Lucas

[laguun]

Laguun, this particular thread has just worn me out. No time to respond...

so, if i understand you correctly: assimilate recommends 3hrd parties to implement an redcode raw in Adobes, Avids, Discreets, Quantels and is not interested?
I am asking because we have several customers asking which route they should go, and we told them that you guys are not interested to offer an windows basing editorial integration with Avid in 2008.




too busy selling SCRATCH to people to people who are pretty happy with the workflow as it stands - two OS, two machines and all. :)
Lucas
congrats.
enjoy it while its lasting.

BTW: do you think that scratch will be popular for the online finishing/editing in 24-48 months? or you think that is to long as business cycle to predict?

[Lucas Wilson]

so, if i understand you correctly: assimilate recommends 3hrd parties to implement an redcode raw in Adobes, Avids, Discreets, Quantels and is not interested

Laguun,

You haven't met me yet, and it's so hard to tell moods over email, but I'm just messing with you, dude. :)

Lucas

[Thomas Mathai]

we use irix, linux, osx and windows. irix is fading away here, osx is rather an island (mainly as compability FCS stations), linux is most of the backbone and the sony, discreet, adobe (and realviz, avid etcs) system are all windows basing.


Thanks for the advice Mathai, but that wasnt why we ordered our reds in 2006.

furthermore we have had -already then- 4k workflows in the house, and they were not bleeding edge even back then. for any usual tradeshows $$$.$$$ or $.$$$.$$$ budget, you usually do large multiscreens, even 8K was no exception back then. I think we did a 9600*1080 for daimler chrysler in 2002.

Its not about the bleeding edge function, red has them mostly worked out (4K, S35mm sensor, raw recording format, >24/25p digital hir-res etc). Its about the -total- basics as Timecode and EDLs and an open fileformat. These don´t work good yet.

And if you consider speedgrade, fcs, scratch or adobe CS3 the edge, then you maybe should have a look at the systems which offer a full class more power, as clipster, baselight etc. They are years ahead in terms of sheer computation, bandwidth and dsp power and deliver functions most midlevel di systems (as the bespoken speedgrade or scratch) didn´t even announce yet, such as multistream, realtime, uncompressed, colorcorrected 4K with input and output to screens and data, networked and solid realtimeFX.

I'm well aware of what's out there. You're not the only one who keeps up on the new toys.

But then I don't whine as much about it... would you like some cheese?

[laguun]

I'm well aware of what's out there. You're not the only one who keeps up on the new toys.

But then I don't whine as much about it... would you like some cheese?

Mr. Mathai,

besides a certain lack of basic manners i have the impression that you furthermore dont understand what this thread is mainly about.

its not us who have the problems - our workflow is functional.
its the regular customers for our 3 red cameras who are having problems planning their inhouse workflow for april and may.

I am certain that you might tell your customers "don't whine as much about it... " - our customers however have a somewhat higher service experience usually.

[laguun]

Laguun,

You haven't met me yet, and it's so hard to tell moods over email, but I'm just messing with you, dude. :)

Lucas

hrrhrr, yeah, i certainly miss certain ironies here and there... i also suppose if we meet once at nab/ibc cannes/berlinale 08/09 or one of the usual come together we might have some rather entertaining exchanges :)

[buster]

Laguun, this particular thread has just worn me out. No time to respond... too busy selling SCRATCH to people to people who are pretty happy with the workflow as it stands - two OS, two machines and all. :)

Lucas

Your arrogance is just overwhelming and is a powerful argument for someone
to come forward with a solution - someone other than SCRATCH.

[Lucas Wilson]

Your arrogance is just overwhelming and is a powerful argument for someone to come forward with a solution - someone other than SCRATCH.

Nice first post, Buster. Most people who stand behind what they say publish their real names instead of hiding behind a pseudonym.

Or perhaps you're just trolling... nah... couldn't be...

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Maz Mawlawi]

Some other 3rd party will fill that void soon anyway, no offense intended here, but I don't think Assimilate would be the right company to come up with such a plugin. I believe they have a different customer in mind as far as who they are targeting (and there is nothing wrong with that). After giving it some thought, I think I would rather have a company (beside Assimilate) who specialized in this kind of market, do the plugin as they would most likely better understand what we ware looking for and price it accordingly.
Currently the hold up is the RED team. Nobody can do anything until they are finished with their code

[Jay A. Kelley]

While I know this can get a little rough at times, I am happy to see this subject continue to live.

Bottom line: There are a lot of customers who will not, for whatever reason, leave their PC workflow. Therefore, support for them will have to happen.

I know there are a lot of companies out there banging at the door to be allowed to work in the RED world. Right now, Assimilate and Apple are the only two "inside". I congradulate them on their ability to accomplish this. That said, as a customer I will be better served by a more open platform of support than what currently exists. I am willing to wait for this rather than purchase what the powers that be want me to purchase.

I am grateful I do not have to "guess" or "hope" an excellent worflow is out there, as I have already seen it. It makes the waiting much easier.

Come NAB '08 all our problems will be solved.

Jay

[Zach Hilton]

I am grateful I do not have to "guess" or "hope" an excellent worflow is out there, as I have already seen it. It makes the waiting much easier.

Come NAB '08 all our problems will be solved.

Jay

I must have missed what you have seen. Can you shed some light on your knowledge/vision?

[Barry Green]

and "cineform is the solution that will save the world / I have seen the light" posts from Jay will I have to read ...?

I suspect that as soon as a solid Windows workflow is out, you won't have to read any more of those.

Doesn't have to be Cineform. Ideally I'd like to see a video-for-windows codec released, just like FCP has the codec, and either a direct plug-in for r3d files or a quick r3d->avi conversion so we can use the footage in any system. If Red supported general DirectShow integration then they shouldn't have to support every NLE individually, which should mean one point of support rather than many, wouldn't it?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Doesn't have to be Cineform. Ideally I'd like to see a video-for-windows codec released, just like FCP has the codec, and either a direct plug-in for r3d files or a quick r3d->avi conversion so we can use the footage in any system. If Red supported general DirectShow integration then they shouldn't have to support every NLE individually, which should mean one point of support rather than many, wouldn't it?
Shhhhhhhhh ..... did someone just say DXVA ...?

[buster]

I suspect that as soon as a solid Windows workflow is out, you won't have to read any more of those.

Doesn't have to be Cineform. Ideally I'd like to see a video-for-windows codec released, just like FCP has the codec, and either a direct plug-in for r3d files or a quick r3d->avi conversion so we can use the footage in any system. If Red supported general DirectShow integration then they shouldn't have to support every NLE individually, which should mean one point of support rather than many, wouldn't it?

Yes and implemented as soon as possible. The present duopoly of FCP and SCRATCH is undesirable, unsustainable, and damaging to both Red and its customers.

[Andrew Madu]

Jay,


I am grateful I do not have to "guess" or "hope" an excellent worflow is out there, as I have already seen it. It makes the waiting much easier.

as a RED Revolutionary member, you need to share the love brother!

[Mark L. Pederson]

The present duopoly of FCP and SCRATCH is undesirable, unsustainable, and damaging to both Red and its customers.

Hmmmmm .... "undesirable, unsustainable"?

Sounds so .... familiar.

Buster, are YOU a Red customer?

Have you shot and finished ANYTHING on the Red for any client?

[Simon Blackledge]

Come NAB '08 all our problems will be solved.

Jay

Thats a big statement!

[Jay A. Kelley]

Personally, if, after NAB, Cineform was the ONLY other solution out there aside from the current players, I would be dissappointed.

I think they would be as well (Perhaps not as much! :)

The true power of the camera will be it's third party support, and the amount of third party vendors will depend heavily on the number of cameras sold/in the wild.

I know people get sick of hearing me talk about this stuff. And the truth is I don' t really need to, but I continue to "squeak" about this so that my other fellow camera users that are begging for windows support will get their wish. You all need to make sure you are heard on this subject.

The more the merrier.

Jay

[number6]

Personally, if, after NAB, Cineform was the ONLY other solution out there aside from the current players, I would be dissappointed.

I think they would be as well (Perhaps not as much! :)

The true power of the camera will be it's third party support, and the amount of third party vendors will depend heavily on the number of cameras sold/in the wild.

I know people get sick of hearing me talk about this stuff. And the truth is I don' t really need to, but I continue to "squeak" about this so that my other fellow camera users that are begging for windows support will get their wish. You all need to make sure you are heard on this subject.

The more the merrier.

Jay

You do good, Jay. You do good well.:wink:

[Kyle Mallory]

Jay,

Let's not focus on just the Windows workflow. I realize that's your passion, but there are others in your same position, who fight for yet another option. Allies Unite! :)

[Frank Weeks]

This is the Premiere- After Effects part of the forum so keep talking Jay.

I am very interested in what is out there for the PC. If you can give us hope, please do.

Frank

[Andrew M.]

So what is cooking with CineForm right now?

Can I use it to export 4K footage from REDCINE to Premiere right now or I have to wait till NAB?

I like Premiere since for my jobs right now, Premiere is more than enough but my needs are growing fast so SCRATCH Light would be an option.

SCRATCH is PC based and FCP is Mac based so both platforms are covered so far. But as FCP is relatively affordable, the SCRATCH Full price is prohibitive for independant shops.

[shashbugu]

This is a really cool thread one of the best I have seen all year. Its is really informative and shows how MUCH Red has closed the gap between the once Uber highend and the true independents.
Adobe's suite is becoming more and more powerful on all platforms its got these guys at assimilate and apple really on the defensive. I must really commend the guys at Adobe premiere and after effects, they have done and are still doing a tromendous job with these applications, and the Photoshop like Architecture just makes a lot of sense to every user. I have seen so many people within the last year send thier projects via Xml to from Avid and Final Cul pro to After Effects done all thier post effects, the opened the projects in Adobe premiere cs3 for final Conform. a lot of Red users will all be the same way. A simple pluin from dvfilm will soon have you editing realtime in PProcs3 parallel proxies and render out in full 4k res without re-capturing or recompressing, I can put my red on it.
wait I don't own a RED.
the makers of Red from day zero, made a camera for independent filmmakers, so everything will follow suit. for 30k you get a really highend camera with all the bells and whistles, free digital intermediate LUT, an fresh and powerful codec, and all the tech support you could ever need. the president of the company a billionaire is your actual tech support and public relations dude.
I will suggest every PC user excersise patience. This assimilate, Apple, off hollywood, highend shop etc etc geek squads deal are just great they help with ironing out all the kinks with the camera and codecs. They are in essence beta testers. Once they tie down the workflow, the little geeks will copy them in a smarter easier way. For now let us story tellers be patient.
at the dvxuser forum some body asked whats the difference between smoke, speed grade, scratch, etc, etc and CS3 production Premium.
the analogy was the fomer are the ferarris and bentlys of the post world, they are well built faster, more expensive,and luxurious, whilst the latter can be compared to a land rover defender county, it can get you the same destination as the above just slower and its adaptive enough to take you to even further treacherous terrain where those cars wont even dare to go.