RAVEN mattebox

[Rick Darge]

I don't know if I'm covering treaded ground, but thought I'd share..

So I've been in the market for a mattebox. I would love to buy the ARRI MB20II or even the MB-19. I checked out the LMB-5 today. All of the ARRI gear is really nice but as you all know, a tad bit expensive. My sales rep introduced me to an alternative, the RAVEN mattebox. I have never heard of them. They are built in England and have been around for 2 years. Sales rep compared them to Vocas. Very solid construction. Sturdy build. Can be setup for 15mm or 19mm standard. No side flags. No swing away. Comes with a 2-stage 4x5.65 rotating filter set. Mattebox works up to 125mm I believe. Comes with the top flag & everything you need for under $2500.

What do you guys think?

Are they worth it?

Looks solid enough for my purposes..

Here are some iphone pics I took while I was in the store..

[Laco Zamba]

It's fine but I hope that RED will introduce better and cheaper at NAB

[Rick Darge]

Me too, but for RIGHT NOW, under 2500 doesn't sound so bad..

I like the Vocas MB-450, however, unlike the ARRI MB20, the swing away adapter is not optional, even though they list their prices as such. I was under the impression that I could buy the Vocas box & purchase the $750+ swing away adapter at a later time, I was informed that the Vocas ships with the Swing-away regardless so you have to pay that extra cost..

Raven, although not swing away, is quite nice for the buck. A Red MB, I would imagine would cost 1500 & quite possibly have swing-away, but who knows when that will become available. It would be awesome if Red pulled an Apple-surprise & simultaneously announced & released their MB at this years NAB

[Jay A. Kelley]

Also that looks a tad small for the RED
Jay

[Nathan Garofalos]

RedRock if you want to wait. I want to see real pictures of that mattebox not just the ones on the site. But it a 4x4 and 2 filter trays so if you are using lenses over 100mm in diameter, the lens wont fit. Unless you upgrade from the 500$ model to whichever comes next. I wonder if there will be 6x6 with 4 filter trays like the MB20II.

[Rick Darge]

By small you mean what exactly? It's about the same size as the MB20II, a tad smaller.

That pic is of the 95mm back ring. It can be adapted up to 125mm I believe.

I'm brining the Red+zoom in on Tuesday and taking them for a spin.

[Rick Darge]

nathan,

What is 4x4? Redrock? The Raven is 4x5.65

I honestly can't wait any longer for the Redrock, sorry Brian. I'm sure it will be a great MB but I need something today, not next quarter.

[Nathan Garofalos]

The 4x4 is the filter tray size. You can go with that or a 4x5.65 but I'm assuming that the price will increase when you go up in filter tray sizes. So for 500$ you can get the 4x4 matte box.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

[J.D. Frey]

we've got a 6x6 on order from cavision- I've heard good and bad things about it but it's supposed to be all metal and it's 3 grand. I'm considering it our temporary mattebox until the red mattebox comes out.

[chuck colburn]

One thing that caught my eye was that the filter holder itself does not seem to sit even in the mattebox. Look at the picture on the right.

[Chris Bell]

I have owned a Raven for 3 years. My only complaint is the lens shade is very fragile. Even the smallest impact seems to destroy the shade. I have gone through 3 so far. Their US customer service is awful. I tried to get parts from the LA dealer and they could have cared less. I found a UK dealer who promptly sends me replacement parts when needed.

I think for the price it's a decent product, I only wish they would go with a denser materiel for the shade or do what Arri did and place a cage around it.

Arri and Chrosziel are expensive for a reason.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

http://www.hysonfilms.com/
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/3151_1203115279.jpeg:meh:
ithink it will work for 15 and 19 and around 600 $

[planet e]

Please post your findings, Richard, after you've had a chance to test-drive. I'm also looking for a less-expensive alternative and need to have something purchased by April, and I'm betting that none of the "under development" options will be in full release by then. I'd love to be proven wrong, but having a decent back-up idea would be excellent.

[chuck colburn]

The swing away looks a little flimsy and it looks like you have to unscrew the knob as opposed to a spring loaded pin like on the Arri box. Small points but they just caught my eye. Overall it looks quite nice.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The MB20Mk2 may be pricey but it works well and speeds lens/filter changes. Ask yourself if you are saving enough with a cheaper mattebox to offset the time penalty. Just sayin'

[Rick Darge]

At less than half the cost, yes, I can deal with that

[Robert Mott]

http://www.hysonfilms.com/
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/3151_1203115279.jpeg:meh:
ithink it will work for 15 and 19 and around 600 $

Are there any reactions to this and Hynson's follow focus?

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

i think this MB sound's okay but they didn't finish it yet you can check their website

[Michael Morlan]

Richard,

Your initial post describes the Petroff 45-2-W 4x5 wide angle Matte Box for sale at B&H for $1550. Add side wings. Add/remove stages. Add front mattes...

http://tinyurl.com/2gpeks

I can't understand why more people aren't recognizing the value of this excellent mid-range matte box.

Michael

[Rick Darge]

Michael,

Are you using the Petroff with your Red?

Can it be setup for 19mm?

If so, have time to post a picture ? This will help me..

Was it the Cavision or the Petroff that was giving the Red problems?

& when it says 4x5, I assume that its 4x5.65 ?

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

The MB20Mk2 may be pricey but it works well and speeds lens/filter changes. Ask yourself if you are saving enough with a cheaper mattebox to offset the time penalty. Just sayin'

Also keep in mind that an MB20II will last 20 years... If you divide it´s cost over the years it might make sense business wise.

[Luke Boyce]

I've been using the new Petroff 5x5 (with 4x5.650 filter stages) for a couple weeks now and am head over heals for it. totally love it. It's solid for a matte box that only cost about $1700. We have 2 stages but you simply have to buy an extra holder and it will expand out to 3. We have the 15mm adapter but it will clip on as well and is REALLY light. We have mostly just clipped it on. Great thing is, the top and side wings fold all the way in so we never have to take them off. We just fold them in and put it in the case.

I have to echo Michael when I say I don't know why this matte box isn't recognized more on this forum.

[Andrew Hewlett]

I wonder how many sales red rock has lost so far with their delay?

[Rick Darge]

iboyce, can you please post a pic all rigged up?

Can this adapt to 19mm for rods?

[albert rudnicki]

I wonder how many sales red rock has lost so far with their delay?

I don't think that many...but if they don't come up with it by April they'll have one less costumer.

[Tonaci Tran]

iboyce, can you please post a pic all rigged up?

Can this adapt to 19mm for rods?
Although I rather see his rig and more angles.. here is the one from the petroff:

http://www.petroff.ws/Red_Camera_Petroff.jpg

[Rick Darge]

If were basing it on looks, that pic makes the Petroff look like cheap plastic, Raven looks sturdier, but Id really just prefer to drop the ridiculous dime on the MB20II & call it a decade

[Tonaci Tran]

also the mb20 will still have great resale value..so later on..you could always resell if the RED Mattebox delivers the goods.

[Jason Mitchell]

Richard,

The Petroffs are really solid and nicely put together. For my lightweight work I go to my 4x4 Petroff before my Chrosziel (which is a CF/MB). One look at how it works and goes together and you can tell that it's pro quality. Plus, all stages rotate and (as stated) packing is a dream. I'm less crazy about their light rings and prefer the Chrosziel type of solid tube.

Tonaci ... is there a reason for mounting you handle in that direction (opposite of how I've seen most others)?

Jason

[Michael Morlan]

Michael,
Are you using the Petroff with your Red?
Can it be setup for 19mm?
If so, have time to post a picture ? This will help me..
Was it the Cavision or the Petroff that was giving the Red problems?
& when it says 4x5, I assume that its 4x5.65 ?

I have the aformentioned Petroff with both 15mm and 19mm rods mounts. The 19mm works flawlessly on the RED rods. I've used the 15mm on other lightweight setups without issue.

Yes, the 4x5 fits 4x5.65" and 4x4" filters. I wish there was a bellows for 138mm round but will manage okay. The entire thing can be disassembled without tools.

That picture isn't flattering to the Petroff. It is really very well built.

The CAVision is generally regarded as a piece of cr** and wouldn't even fit the rods system.

Michael

[Jeff Kilgroe]

One thing that caught my eye was that the filter holder itself does not seem to sit even in the mattebox. Look at the picture on the right.

I saw it too. But I think that's just due to the rotating stage being partially rotated in relation to the box. It's a 4x5.65 filter holder and that's a 95mm bellows ring. 4" is roughly 101mm and seems to be what we're seeing in that image. So, slightly rotated filter stage.

IMO, 4x565 is too small for RED if you're going to be using rotating filters... I suppose it will work with the 50-150 and probably with the 18-50, even at full wide. But it's not going to work with some of the larger primes out there. Forget 4 x anything rotating with Master Primes.

[Omnius]

The CAVision is generally regarded as a piece of cr** and wouldn't even fit the rods system.

Michael

I have to agree with Michael when it comes to what CAVision has to offer.
The Quality and Workmanship is Sh*t, and CAVision customer service is worst than their product.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

ive seen that raven before......
id stick it out just a lil longer before jumping into it.
were gunna see alot of new toys at NAB.

[Luke Boyce]

iboyce, can you please post a pic all rigged up?

Can this adapt to 19mm for rods?

Richard,
I'll take some shots tomorrow and post them. I'm going to bed, but I can say that I'm in love with this matte box. We use the 15mm adapter and the only issue with the 5x5 is that is rides lower than the red 15mm adapter so I had to flip the universal mount upside down and add some washers to lift it up to the right length. It's a little annoying, but we've mostly been using it just as a clip-on anyway since it's so lightweight. And I know that Petroff has a 19mm adapter as well, but we just haven't received it yet. It's good to hear from Michael that it works so flawlessly.

Like I said, it's no $500 Matte Box. Ours cost about $1800, but compared to $4.5k for an Arri, I'd say it's a steal!

[Rick Darge]

Thanks for the feedsback.. & that'd be awesome iboyce, seeing pictures of the petroff on the red will let me get a better feel for it overall.. thanks

Where are you guys getting your Petroff's from?

I'm going to look into this next week, but I'd like to physically handle one before deciding anything. Anyone in LA know where I could glance at this?

[Jason Mitchell]

B&H orders them in. They import through a company in LA, ste-man.com I believe. The importer was very helpful on the phone making sure everything was right ... after I had placed the order and it had shipped to them. Nice level of service.

The whole process took more than a month from paying B&H, getting through customs and all to delivery.

Jason

[Anthony Gratl]

also the mb20 will still have great resale value..so later on..you could always resell if the RED Mattebox delivers the goods.

well, no, because then everyone will buy the red mattebox, right?

edit: btw, i really like the setup you've got for your rig. Simple and looks very light. I think that with the nikon mount, it's exactly what I'm going to have.

[Rick Darge]

Evolve, I see the ARRIs always holding value. Every production has different needs - I think the best bet for peeps like me is to go with the LM-5 today and hold out for the RED full prod. Box later. That way you get a rock solid industry standard clip on for 2k, today, and a affordable, bad ass box specifically for the Red tomrrow. The LMB-5 will give you basic functionality, cutting down your light

[Tonaci Tran]

well, no, because then everyone will buy the red mattebox, right?


From a rental perspective I disagree. I have been renting my rig out and the majority of clients subrent out "Arri" gear. It is simply what they are used to and because of this I highly doubt the resale value of the mb20 will immediately plummet in price once the RED mattebox lands. The Mb20 will continue to have rental value for those who can afford it.

With that said though, I am looking to get the RED Mattebox. hopefully it comes out soon.

[Anthony Gratl]

Hi Richard,
I guess i see it differently. Like the evolution of digital cinema, so to is the evolution of the accessories. I'm pretty convinced that ARRI will have to drop their prices once, and IF, Redrock, Red, and whoever else can produce a product that does a very similar thing and has similar quality and longevity that Arri's does, at a price that is 1/8th (at least RR's is supposed to be).....or even half the price of an Arri MB. Now those are big IF's, but my sense is that MB prices aren't going to be stable for long. Same as arri cameras....

[Tonaci Tran]

Tonaci ... is there a reason for mounting you handle in that direction (opposite of how I've seen most others)?

Jason

To clarify, this was a picture directly from the Petroff website. It is interesting that the owner mounted it in reverse.

[Anthony Gratl]

From a rental perspective I disagree. I have been renting my rig out and the majority of clients subrent out "Arri" gear. It is simply what they are used to and because of this I highly doubt the resale value of the mb20 will immediately plummet in price once the RED mattebox lands. The Mb20 will continue to have rental value for those who can afford it.

With that said though, I am looking to get the RED Mattebox. hopefully it comes out soon.

Tonaci, I thought you were refering to resale value. From a rental perspective, I'm sure that you're closer to the truth, that rental prices will be more stable. But you can't compare the rental and resale markets. They're very different things. But I would wager that the resale value of the MB20, while not "plunging", will be dropping pretty fast if the Red MB is the cat's meow.
You're looking to get one yourself.

[Tonaci Tran]

Hi Richard,
I guess i see it differently. Like the evolution of digital cinema, so to is the evolution of the accessories. I'm pretty convinced that ARRI will have to drop their prices once, and IF, Redrock, Red, and whoever else can produce a product that does a very similar thing and has similar quality and longevity that Arri's does, at a price that is 1/8th (at least RR's is supposed to be).....or even half the price of an Arri MB. Now those are big IF's, but my sense is that MB prices aren't going to be stable for long. Same as arri cameras....

To ultra clarify my statement. If you buy an mb20 now you can use it until the Red Mattebox is released. The price drop you are referring to will happen over time...not over a couple days or weeks. So my point is, anyone who wants to transition to the RED Mattebox to save some coin..can sell their mb20.

As for the plummeting price prediction. The RED is out now and I don't see the Arri-d20, genesis, f23, dalsa, f900 or even the Varicam dropping down to 20,000? So in comparison, don't expect the mb20 to drop that soon even after the redrock and red releas their mattebox. I am not saying prices won't go lower, I am just merely pointing out that change takes time. I agree that at some point Sony, Arri..etc will have to restrategize their high end digital cine products and price points..however it's not going to happen fast.

[Tonaci Tran]

Tonaci, I thought you were refering to resale value. From a rental perspective, I'm sure that you're closer to the truth, that rental prices will be more stable. But you can't compare the rental and resale markets. They're very different things. But I would wager that the resale value of the MB20, while not "plunging", will be dropping pretty fast if the Red MB is the cat's meow.
You're looking to get one yourself.

Yes I was referring to resale value.. the resale value to individuals who rent out the equipment. Those who rent out Arri gear will be the ones likely to purchase Arri gear second hand because of the rentability of Arri gear. I would say the majority of buyers who look into buying ARRi gear are into the business of renting it out rather than for purely their own personal use. As with my initial statement, the resale value of the mb20 will hold even upon the release of the Red Mattebox.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one..because I just don't agree that the prices will "drop pretty fast." It hasn't so far for the digital cine cameras and it won't for matteboxes. It will just take more time for companies to get out of their denial phase.

[Anthony Gratl]

The price drop you are referring to will happen over time...not over a couple days or weeks. So my point is, anyone who wants to transition to the RED Mattebox to save some coin..can sell their mb20.

Sure. But if the RED mattebox comes out, then the resale value of ARRI MB's will drop, and fast. That's usually how prices drop in technology related items. Fast. Let's say the Red MB comes out on May the 1st (just in time for the delivery of your's truly's RED:biggrin: ). Do you believe that given the choice of buying a used arri MB or a new Red MB at a quarter of the cost (hypothetical) that people are going to opt for the Arri? What happens when you introduce a new product into this market is that you siphon off the potential buyers of the product (in this case the used ARRI MB buyers) so your price (as a used ARRI MB seller) is going to have to come down. And considerably, to re-attract people into the used Arri MB market.


As for the plummeting price prediction. The RED is out now and I don't see the Arri-d20, genesis, f23, dalsa, f900 or even the Varicam dropping down to 20,000? So in comparison, don't expect the mb20 to drop that soon even after the redrock and red releas their mattebox. I am not saying prices won't go lower, I am just merely pointing out that change takes time. I agree that at some point Sony, Arri..etc will have to restrategize their high end digital cine products and price points..however it's not going to happen fast.
Well three of the cameras you listed aren't for sale: the d-20, the genesis, and the f23 (although maybe i'm mistaken on the f23's most recent update), and I will wager a lot of money that you will see a significant drop in price in the f900 and the varicam in the next few months. Change takes time? Sure, but change is happening faster and faster, and I guarantee you, Sony and Arri and Dalsa are not sitting on the digital cinema thrones gloating, because Jim and company are kicking their asses in marketing, price, and customer loyalty. And awareness of the potential of digital cinema in general, btw.
IMO, we will see massive changes in high end digital cine products price points and flexibility in a very short period of time, or Red will totally dominate the market. So I believe you're making vast assumptions about the stability of the cinema market here: also keep in mind that by NAB there will be 2000 cameras out there looking for MB's. That's a lot of MB's, and Arri would certainly like to sell a good chunk of them.

[Anthony Gratl]

Evolve, I see the ARRIs always holding value. Every production has different needs - I think the best bet for peeps like me is to go with the LM-5 today and hold out for the RED full prod. Box later. That way you get a rock solid industry standard clip on for 2k, today, and a affordable, bad ass box specifically for the Red tomrrow. The LMB-5 will give you basic functionality, cutting down your light

Richard, you and me sound like similar peeps. Indi filmmakers with less money than time. My advice to you is not to buy a 2k arri clipon. Simply for this: lack of versatility. What will you use with the nikon mount?
As you said, the LMB gives you basic functionalilty, cutting down your light. So does cardboard. I think your best option is to check out the petroff, as it seems to have both clip on and rail mount possibilitles, as well as filter trays, which the LM 5 doesn't have, and still costs less money than the Arri. You're essentially paying for the Arri name. Anyways, best of luck with your decision.
Cheers

[Morning Glory]

To clarify, this was a picture directly from the Petroff website. It is interesting that the owner mounted it in reverse.

Gee, I didn't know there was a 'reverse' and always thought one of the benefits of Red's modular system is that it can be configured by different owners in ways that suit what they need in the moment. For those who feel it is in reverse, no need to worry, it has been switched around, a configuration that is beneficial for going from hand held to tripod, esp with the extension. I do like it in the direction pictured for low slung hand held, as the camera is very front heavy and holding it further back I find a ease of use. But to each his own. I am also waiting to see what ET and others design and may even design custom accessories to fit certain needs. Even if I do buy/commission more accessories, I doubt I will sell any of the Red one's I already own (ah, a pun) as the more versatility I can have access to, the better.

The Petroff, while not like traditional ARRI matteboxes, is very revolutionary in it's own way. It's unique take on matteboxes and modularity reminds me of another company we all love.

cheers!

Disclaimer: I do not work for Petroff or have any association with the company except that I am currently demoing his products and he asked to take pictures of my camera with said products.

[Tonaci Tran]

Well three of the cameras you listed aren't for sale: the d-20, the genesis, and the f23 (although maybe i'm mistaken on the f23's most recent update), and I will wager a lot of money that you will see a significant drop in price in the f900 and the varicam in the next few months. Change takes time? Sure, but change is happening faster and faster, and I guarantee you, Sony and Arri and Dalsa are not sitting on the digital cinema thrones gloating, because Jim and company are kicking their asses in marketing, price, and customer loyalty.

I forgot the Genesis was a panavision deal. So true, the genesis isn't for sale. As for the d-20, I haven't heard this was a rental only item, but I could be wrong. The f23 is definitely for sale.

Anyways..the Redrock follow focus has been out for some time and I haven't seen any plummeting prices on the Arri FFs? Explain that?

[Rick Darge]

Evolve, I would agree with you, except I already dropped serious dime on my entire Red rig. You will see, once you own this thing, you're going to want to make it shine. You're going to want the best equipment for it. This camera has a way of making you 'do better' if that makes sense. Every shot, every cog, every idea has to be as pristine as the footage, otherwise you're doing the Red a disservice. The Red One is akin to a high class, wealthy Barbie-doll. Now in the past, a girl like this would never even go to lunch with me because I grew up on the other side of the traintracks. I would have to rent her out for 3500/day and deal with her pain in the ass demands and she still wouldn't go home with me. She'd run off and tramp herself out to another production that could afford her.. Now I get my Red for a price I can afford and she treats me real nice. (this is disturbing) I come from the mindset that if I'm going to drop $1500 on a mattebox, I mind as well spend $2300 and buy something with name recognition, like ARRI, making it easier on rentals, etc. But then, I say to myself, if you're going to spend $2300 on a mattebox, why not spend $5000 and just have the best. $5000 is insane but I'm digging Tonaci's suggestion of buying now and selling later. I think if I paid the $5200 for the MB20II today, I could sell it for at least $4800 tomorrow, assuming the Red matte box delivers by summer. With the American dollar on a continuous decline, an investment in a German product will only increase over time, assuming John W. McCain takes over the White House. Look at the 'Jay-crew' They paid $4500~ for their MB20IIs just a few months ago, granted it was a 'group deal' but they could make a profit if they sold theirs today

A $5000 mattebox is a ludicrous idea but if you're in the market to rent & own rock-solid gear, this seems to be the only option right now.. I've been looking around a lot, the Petroff I have not seen, but the MB20II is by far the prettiest, most bad-ass of them all.

I really have to see the petroff to judge it because based on all the pics I'm seeing, it looks like a toy, and call me trivial, but I don't want to put a toy on the cam.

[Tonaci Tran]

Gee, I didn't know there was a 'reverse'

Okay.. to clarify reverse of what I have commonly seen. I never intended it to be in a negative way. Mount it upside down for all I care. I love the modularity..heck I put my cradle on the side of my RED. It's your red, do what you will with it.http://redmodz.com/images/newsimages/myred/rig8.jpg

[Anthony Gratl]

Anyways..the Redrock follow focus has been out for some time and I haven't seen any plummeting prices on the Arri FFs? Explain that?

Sure. It's not on the same quality level, not is it designed to do what the arri ff's does. We're comparing apples with apples right? That's why all of my comments have been prefaced with, IF, in regards to quality and ability to do the work.

[Anthony Gratl]

Evolve, I would agree with you, except I already dropped serious dime on my entire Red rig. You will see, once you own this thing, you're going to want to make it shine. You're going to want the best equipment for it.
Oh, I can't wait to get my rig. But I'm not buying her master primes. Doesn't matter what street she lives on. If I've got that kind of budget I'm not worried about a few bucks here or there for a MB.


This camera has a way of making you 'do better' if that makes sense. Every shot, every cog, every idea has to be as pristine as the footage, otherwise you're doing the Red a disservice. The Red One is akin to a high class, wealthy Barbie-doll. Now in the past, a girl like this would never even go to lunch with me because I grew up on the other side of the traintracks. I would have to rent her out for 3500/day and deal with her pain in the ass demands and she still wouldn't go home with me. She'd run off and tramp herself out to another production that could afford her.. Now I get my Red for a price I can afford and she treats me real nice. (this is disturbing)
It means you've found a nice reliable loyal girl, who rewards your budgets with a laugh, simplicity and ease of use, and isn't high maintenance. For my nickel far more valuable in terms of quality of life and mental fatigue.:biggrin:
I'm glad to hear about the 'making me do better' bit. Although I always strive for the best, it's nice to push yourself further, and it's rare to get that from the tools that you use.



I come from the mindset that if I'm going to drop $1500 on a mattebox, I mind as well spend $2300 and buy something with name recognition, like ARRI, making it easier on rentals, etc. But then, I say to myself, if you're going to spend $2300 on a mattebox, why not spend $5000 and just have the best. $5000 is insane but I'm digging Tonaci's suggestion of buying now and selling later. I think if I paid the $5200 for the MB20II today, I could sell it for at least $4800 tomorrow, assuming the Red matte box delivers by summer.

Sure a few more bucks for a BETTER mb no problem. But to buy something strictly for name recognition isn't wise.
I think if you paid 5200 for a MB20II today, you could sell it for 4800 tomorrow. Maybe even next week. But after the Red MB delivers, you and Tonaci are dreaming if you think the used Arri MB market isn't going to drop by a good chunk very quickly. And that's just my humble opinion. Keep in mind that because the Arri MB's last so long, the buyers market in the used Arri MB field is mostly comprised of people who are looking to buy a MB for the first time, ie. for their Red, and if they have the choice of an Arri or a Red, my money's on them buying a Red MB, unless the Arri is close enough in price that they'd rather a used Arri. And look who the buyers flooding into this new market are: are they 70 year old "well it's Arri or nothing" kind of crowd, or the younger, technology and price savvy "well, what have we got as options" kind of crowd. Anyways, best of luck with your decision.

[Luke Boyce]

Thanks for the feedsback.. & that'd be awesome iboyce, seeing pictures of the petroff on the red will let me get a better feel for it overall.. thanks

Where are you guys getting your Petroff's from?

I'm going to look into this next week, but I'd like to physically handle one before deciding anything. Anyone in LA know where I could glance at this?

We got ours from Zacuto in Chicago but I first talked to a guy at ste-man.com about it and he went above and beyond for me. He told me the best place to order was from Zacuto and that they can special order from them and they'll overnight it to me. I called Zacuto and they acted dumb about it and said they only carry the 4x4, so I called ste-man back and the guy told me to hold on. A couple hours later Zacuto calls me back, apologizes and takes my order, all of which the guy at ste-man specifically helped me pick out. The next day it was here. Best customer service I've ever had!!

I'll post pictures in a couple hours, after my wife finishes cleaning the house and lets me out of my room.

[Anthony Gratl]

I'll post pictures in a couple hours, after my wife finishes cleaning the house and lets me out of my room.

lboyce, if you don't mind my asking, what was the final price?

[Rick Darge]

Looking forward to pictures iboyce

[Luke Boyce]

Petroff Matte Box 5x5 2-Stage (4x5.650 holders and Top Flag) (P55-2) = $1,749.95
Right Flag (P55-13R) = $60
Left Flag (P55-13L) = $60
15mm Support Adapter (SS-10-15) = $90

=$2,005

Those were Zacuto prices, but i think they're almost exactly the same as the prices from Petroff.

[Anthony Gratl]

Thanks man

[Rick Darge]

Do we need the 15mm adapter for the 19?

[Tonaci Tran]

Rather than investing more time into the "Arri MB resale value will nosedive debate", I wanted to point out an idea for thought. If you can swing the budget to get one..in a few months time you will have made income from the rental of the mb-20 if rentals go well.

[Matt Gottshalk]

I love my petroff on my HVX, it is VERY well made.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w305/mcgeedigital/VIDEO/Letus7.jpg

[Morning Glory]

Okay.. to clarify reverse of what I have commonly seen. I never intended it to be in a negative way. Mount it upside down for all I care. I love the modularity..heck I put my cradle on the side of my RED. It's your red, do what you will with it.http://redmodz.com/images/newsimages/myred/rig8.jpg

like the side mount, never thought o' that!

[Rick Darge]

Hey Jim,

When's our mattebox coming out?

-R

[Steve Sherrick]

Sure a few more bucks for a BETTER mb no problem. But to buy something strictly for name recognition isn't wise.
I think if you paid 5200 for a MB20II today, you could sell it for 4800 tomorrow. Maybe even next week. But after the Red MB delivers, you and Tonaci are dreaming if you think the used Arri MB market isn't going to drop by a good chunk very quickly. And that's just my humble opinion. Keep in mind that because the Arri MB's last so long, the buyers market in the used Arri MB field is mostly comprised of people who are looking to buy a MB for the first time, ie. for their Red, and if they have the choice of an Arri or a Red, my money's on them buying a Red MB, unless the Arri is close enough in price that they'd rather a used Arri. And look who the buyers flooding into this new market are: are they 70 year old "well it's Arri or nothing" kind of crowd, or the younger, technology and price savvy "well, what have we got as options" kind of crowd. Anyways, best of luck with your decision.

Actually, name recognition is important if you are renting the camera and supporting gear out to professional productions. How many DPs and camera ops have used a Red MB? How many have used an Arri MB? Until the Red MB has been out there and established you will have a lot of people asking for another MB to put on the camera. If renting the camera out is not the objective, then of course you go with the less expensive, and possibly really good solution. It's human nature in this business to go wth the tried and true products. They last many years and hold their value because they are well built and work as advertised.

Is there room for other products? Sure, they just need to build their track record.

Steve

[Jason Mitchell]

I have had to do some selling/educating when renting out the Petroff. But everyone has been very satisfied and asked for it in subsequent rentals.

I know I'll have to do a lot more selling/educating to move the camera itself.

Jason

ps. Tonaci ... you have exposed that I was careful to not say 'reverse' in describing the handle position.

[Luke Boyce]

Sorry for the delay, and these aren't the best pics I can give you. They're with my crappy old digital camera, but I will shoot some better ones with my Rebel Xti tomorrow. It's just been a hectic day. Don't know if they do the thing justice, but trust me when I say it's really a great matte box for it's price. It's no Arri, but it's a GREAT Matte Box!

[Corrado Silveri]

Great to see Peter Gabriel in your living room...

Quick question: $$$?

[Luke Boyce]

Great to see Peter Gabriel in your living room...

Quick question: $$$?

I posted the exact price in this thread. You'll have to look. It's a couple pages back.

[Rick Darge]

Thanks for posting those pics iboyce! That helps.

What long noga arm is that?

[Corrado Silveri]

I posted the exact price in this thread. You'll have to look. It's a couple pages back.

Didn't notice, sorry. And thanks!

[Luke Boyce]

Thanks for posting those pics iboyce! That helps.

What long noga arm is that?

It's just a regular noga arm. 9 Lbs. capacity.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

is this bogen manaffroto 515 ?
did you put red base plate on quike releas 3727 (i fi this the number correct):excl:

[Luke Boyce]

515 sticks with a 516 fluid head and 3272 release plate. Yes.

It's a temporary solution. We made a last minute decision to buy the Red Lens and so we had to sacrifice a couple things for the time being. One being a decent tripod. But so far, it's worked well enough.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

I LIKE that MATTEBOX used Here it is amazing :w00t:

Also Peter Holland DoP'd "The Nothing Men" I believe all on Red.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/6395_1203157097.jpg


Dig that expensive lens shade

:love: you should have one like this Richard :biggrin:

[Rick Darge]

Yep, kinda looks like what Im currently using...
I am 80% sure I am going the MB20II route for now. Time to whip out the ol CC..

[M.Beek]

I like the Vocas MB-450, however, unlike the ARRI MB20, the swing away adapter is not optional, even though they list their prices as such. I was under the impression that I could buy the Vocas box & purchase the $750+ swing away adapter at a later time, I was informed that the Vocas ships with the Swing-away regardless so you have to pay that extra cost..


I would like to comment on this bit, just for a moment.

I am not sure were you got this information from, but you have been mis-informed.
The Vocas swing-away system is an accessory of the MB-450 and is in no way included with the base mattebox.
You can simply buy the MB-450 mattebox, and at a later date, purchase either a rail support or a swing-away system.

[Jon McCoy]

The Red One is akin to a high class, wealthy Barbie-doll...

I love that simile. :D

Frankly you can do a fair enough job with a sheet of cardboard and gaffer tape. All the units that have been talked about would do the job, and probably quite well. The mattebox debate is as much about brand worship, and "bling", as it is about technical specs.

Don't get me wrong - I'm an Arri whore, and I'm proud of it. I use a mix on HDV cams (Chrosziel to name but one), but still get a pang of lust for a sprawling German Arri MB, and will also favour Arri over the rest. There's no logic in it, I know. Human nature for you.

If it looks cheap and plastic, I'm more likely to treat it badly - throw it into a case, yank the flags back and forth... Now, if it looks strong and expensive, I'm going to treat it like gold. Can't account for the monkeys who thing anything protruding from a camera is a handle though...

Arri MB's are built like the proverbial brick shit-house, their true defining advantage. And they're really quite pretty. I like pretty. ;)

[sparkhope]

Frankly you can do a fair enough job with a sheet of cardboard and gaffer tape. All the units that have been talked about would do the job, and probably quite well. The mattebox debate is as much about brand worship, and "bling", as it is about technical specs.

Well put.

Buy the ARRI but prepare to feel okay about the nicks once it's been rented a few times.