View Factor DFF + Bonus

[JVB]

Here is a video showing the View Factor Digital FF aka INCLINO plus a little someting extra...enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hwXJe95C0

[Evin Grant]

Bitchen! Can't wait to order both!

BTW are you a "von Badinskiy" too?

[CVB]

Hehe.. yeah, there's three of us von Badinskis running around the forum.

[Michael Lindsay]

I have some cash.....:biggrin:

[Corrado Silveri]

Wow,
thanks.
You know, Curt, can't wait to buy "all" of your stuff (no, not your shirts too...).

[Poi Boy]

I want I want I want !
Aloha
-A

[Tico Llaurador]

Nice!!!

:-)

T

[JVB]

Bitchen! Can't wait to order both!

BTW are you a "von Badinskiy" too?

yup...i am!

[HD Hildebrand]

Looks great! Question though - when the ff calibrates the lens, how would it work on a Nikon 17-35mm where there are no hard stops?

[roryhinds]

is it me or does the FF look way too small.
The wheel is tiny "2 finger" operation... not good on a production.

Will VF be making a professional size FF?

[Gian Joon]

When are they coming..............

[Rick Darge]

That's rad

[CVB]

is it me or does the FF look way too small.
The wheel is tiny "2 finger" operation... not good on a production.

Will VF be making a professional size FF? As we said in the video, its a prototype. A prototype is a functional although experimental version of a final product. We wanted to show you guys what was in the works...the motor and knob we just posted are a couple generations behind what we are shipping in April.

I know that a lot of you are familiar with 60mm diameter knobs(like on Arri's), they're on conventional mechanical follow focus systems and its something that everyone is used to. The final product will be something that you should feel right at home with.

[Brook Willard]

That looks awesome. I know it's a prototype, so don't take any of this the wrong way.

I agree that the knob should be bigger... it should also have that little square port in the middle [don't know what it's called] for hooking up a whip.

The mount [for hooking the FF to a rod] should span between both rods. The rod adapter [the part that the rods go through...] should be removable [so it can work with different rod standards], but having the mount work with both rods is key. Lightweight follow focuses [that work on one rod instead of two] often slip off of the gears. While this one obviously can't slip off of the gears, the slipping would still affect the knob. This rod adapter should be clip-on rather than slide-on.

Are those Hirose connectors? Are they as weak as the ones I've used in the past on other products? You might consider Fisher or Lemo connectors... even if it increases the cost slightly. Unless it's some industry standard connector that I've just never paid attention to.

Adjustable friction/drag on the knob would be great. Also adjustable 'sensitivity" [the knob turn: lens turn ratio] is key.

I dig the design. How big is that motor? Looks heftier than most... but I could be wrong.

I'm quite impressed.

When you're working up the final designs, rent an Arri FF4 [which I'm sure you've done before] and try to figure out the ABS compounds, rubber and finish that they use on it. Dense, sturdy design makes a huge difference.

Can't wait to play with it.

[Stephen Pruitt]

. . . how soon?

. . . and how much?

Please let us know right away!

Stephen

[Poi Boy]

april sound good.. how long for wireless ?
Aloha
-A

[CVB]

That looks awesome. I know it's a prototype, so don't take any of this the wrong way. I love criticism... it makes our products better.


I agree that the knob should be bigger... it should also have that little square port in the middle [don't know what it's called] for hooking up a whip. Correct me if I'm wrong here... The point behind the square port is to be able to rotate the knob from farther away and not accidentally bump the camera. When you use the whip it adds flex and results in less control of the knob. Why wouldn't you just change out the short cable for a longer cable? If its something where its a feel thing then I understand.



The mount [for hooking the FF to a rod] should span between both rods. The rod adapter [the part that the rods go through...] should be removable [so it can work with different rod standards], but having the mount work with both rods is key. Lightweight follow focuses [that work on one rod instead of two] often slip off of the gears. While this one obviously can't slip off of the gears, the slipping would still affect the knob. This rod adapter should be clip-on rather than slide-on. Got it. Thanks for the heads up on that.



Are those Hirose connectors? Are they as weak as the ones I've used in the past on other products? You might consider Fisher or Lemo connectors... even if it increases the cost slightly. Unless it's some industry standard connector that I've just never paid attention to. They are Hirose... and yes, they suck. Its just what I had laying around when it came time to wire things. The final design has Lemo connectors.



Adjustable friction/drag on the knob would be great. Also adjustable 'sensitivity" [the knob turn: lens turn ratio] is key. Got that covered in the final design. There is a bad ass adjustment knob to tweak the friction. The ratio for the knob to motor is user definable to whatever you like... its very flexible.



I dig the design. How big is that motor? Looks heftier than most... but I could be wrong. Its hefty but very flexible... we've mounted three motors on the 18-50mm. Pays to have a flexible camera :) (See ATTACHED DIMS)


When you're working up the final designs, rent an Arri FF4 [which I'm sure you've done before] and try to figure out the ABS compounds, rubber and finish that they use on it. Dense, sturdy design makes a huge difference. We've had a lot of help from Eric over at Indie Rentals and Michael over at HD Camera Rentals... Had a ton of face time with the FF4. We'll have a few options that I think will work well.


. . . how soon?
. . . and how much?
Please let us know right away!
Stephen We will be taking orders for Inclino (the motor) and Impero (the knob) in a couple weeks. Deliveries will start at the end of April. Price for the Inclino is $900. Impero is $350. Cables are TBD, we're working on some very attractive pricing but won't know until we get a few more quotes back. You will need a power cable for the motor (uses aux port on the camera) and a shorter control cable for the FF knob.


april sound good.. how long for wireless ?
Aloha
-A Wireless will lag by a month or so... We should have protos at NAB... Hopefully we'll be able to grab a booth - we waited until the last minute :) Worst case we'll be at all the reduser parties showing stuff off.

[Poi Boy]

fantastic Curt, can't wait.
-A

[chuck colburn]

Good evening Curt,

I agree with Brook on most of his suggestions. But I see no reason why the unit can't be a single side mount if you choose to make it that way. A properly designed and manufactured split clamp for either 15 or 19mm rods is more the capable of holding the unit in place. And it gets the other side open for mounting the motor units for the zoom and iris functions. So far as a clip on as opposed to a slide on type I don't see the reason for that.

[Brook Willard]

Yeah, Chuck makes a good point... having both a single rod attachment and a double rod attachment [clip on for the double... maybe a Speedy Clamp for the single] would be good. They don't all have to come with the kit, but having all the options out there would be great.

The square focus whip port thing is more of a feel feature. Yes, pulling the FF off of the camera is a better idea... but I guarantee you ACs will complain about not being able to plug in a whip.

Don't forget to have a "witness mark" that marks on the disc line up with... an adjustable one if possible. Many ACs don't mark on the disc, but those that do will need an adjustable witness mark. Also consider a wedge ring [that is viewable from in front of or behind the FF]. If you've used Indie Rentals' FF4, you've seen the wedge ring. It may not be called a wedge ring, but I'm no AC.

I'll keep thinking. I'll ask a few ACs as well. If you ever need anybody to test your toys... *cough* :wink: :)

[Cail Young]

Correct me if I'm wrong here... The point behind the square port is to be able to rotate the knob from farther away and not accidentally bump the camera. When you use the whip it adds flex and results in less control of the knob. Why wouldn't you just change out the short cable for a longer cable? If its something where its a feel thing then I understand.

Speed cranks use the same socket; also if your knob mounts to a rod and you don't want to rip it off for a quick handheld or tight spaces situation a whip is quicker to attach...

[Brook Willard]

Oo, having just looked at your dimensions image, you'll want to put a guard around the calibrate/reset button.

[chuck colburn]

I've never understood why the control knob with it's making disc don't tilt up and down to allow for easier reading in odd positions.

[CVB]

Yeah, Chuck makes a good point... having both a single rod attachment and a double rod attachment [clip on for the double... maybe a Speedy Clamp for the single] would be good. They don't all have to come with the kit, but having all the options out there would be great.

The square focus whip port thing is more of a feel feature. Yes, pulling the FF off of the camera is a better idea... but I guarantee you ACs will complain about not being able to plug in a whip.

Don't forget to have a "witness mark" that marks on the disc line up with... an adjustable one if possible. Many ACs don't mark on the disc, but those that do will need an adjustable witness mark. Also consider a wedge ring [that is viewable from in front of or behind the FF]. If you've used Indie Rentals' FF4, you've seen the wedge ring. It may not be called a wedge ring, but I'm no AC.

I'll keep thinking. I'll ask a few ACs as well. If you ever need anybody to test your toys... *cough* :wink: :) Yeah, I'll see if we can have a few different options for mounting. The square port isn't a huge deal, I can put it in there but I just like to know why I'm adding something rather than just blindly going forward. We have a witness mark on the new design.. Also some adjustable stops. The wedge is possible, I'll look into it.

The calibration button is recessed a bit so it can't be brushed easily. It also has to be held down for two seconds to respond.


Chuck - What if we make the mount for the knob on a swivel of some sort? BTW... the knob has a 1/4-20 fastener location on the back so it can be mounted to a red arm.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Makes me feel sad that I've ordered the FF4

[Mike Prevette]

The square port needs to be there for speed cranks, and whips. The idea of pulling it off the rods for a quick handheld shot is ridiculous. Seconds matter, and no good AC worth their Panchro would be willing to slow a production down because the "non standard" FF doesn't have a stupid port.

Another must is some form of reference bump, or notch on the FF knob surround. I rarely marked the knob, instead I would use muscle memory and place my index finger or thumb on the knob so it hit the bump when the lens was at it's mark, and then do all my pulls in relation to the bump. That enabled me to "feel" where the lens was at, and I could keep watching the action and adjusting to it. IMHO it's a necessity.


It needs to be rock solid on the rods, so I'm not sure I love the idea of a tiltable wheel design.

[CVB]

The square port needs to be there for speed cranks, and whips. The idea of pulling it off the rods for a quick handheld shot is ridiculous. Seconds matter, and no good AC worth their Panchro would be willing to slow a production down because the "non standard" FF doesn't have a stupid port.

Another must is some form of reference bump, or notch on the FF knob surround. I rarely marked the knob, instead I would use muscle memory and place my index finger or thumb on the knob so it hit the bump when the lens was at it's mark, and then do all my pulls in relation to the bump. That enabled me to "feel" where the lens was at, and I could keep watching the action and adjusting to it. IMHO it's a necessity.


It needs to be rock solid on the rods, so I'm not sure I love the idea of a tiltable wheel design.Mike, there is a reference bump... it might not be visible in the pics we took. On the topic of the square port, I agree that seconds matter - on our production design the whole assembly pops out of the cradle with the flip of a lever. We'll have the square port there for everyone that wants to do it the way its currently done with FF's.

[Finner]

Hey Curt

Like mentioned the speed crank/whip port is important. I am 99% sure it is the same port size that accepts a 1/2inch rachet driver so you can just check it with the extension arm of a 1/2inch one.

Also it has the reverse and varriable movement control for stills lenses right?

The suggestions from Brook and all the others cover any issues I can see.

Looks really good Curt.

[david farland]

I love criticism... it makes our products better...Can help out there Curt.
Get yours and say an Arri FF4 and start throwing them at a brick wall.
See what part on yours brakes first. Fix it and start throwing again... probably using the same Arri ...that's machined like a handgun.
Next, Arri tell me they rarely hire out the bevelled marking disks but made them because people asked.
Also the guy kept a selection of 'no name' white disks that were inferior in some way,i.e wouldn't clean, turn yellow etc so research this real carefully.
I expect (hope) you can change the gear ration for different lens diameters and maybe incorporate a two-speed ratio & reverse setting here also.
Make sure you're got a 'fat' gear for external focus lenses.
Also the square socket on the focus knob is required for a speed lever and lastly do you need an extension for the focus knob for those big nasty matte boxes.
All the best,
Dave

[CVB]

Hey Curt

Like mentioned the speed crank/whip port is important. I am 99% sure it is the same port size that accepts a 1/2inch rachet driver so you can just check it with the extension arm of a 1/2inch one.

Also it has the reverse and varriable movement control for stills lenses right?

The suggestions from Brook and all the others cover any issues I can see.

Looks really good Curt. Yup.. The reversing and variable gearing controls are on Impero. I have the geometry all modelled up for the knob (I borrowed an Arri FF from a friend)


Can help out there Curt.
Get yours and say an Arri FF4 and start throwing them at a brick wall.
See what part on yours brakes first. Fix it and start throwing again... probably using the same Arri ...that's machined like a handgun. We're doing our own version of Mil-Spec... its a mix of dumping it in water for 10 seconds, dropping it from 6 feet on a concrete floor, and strapping it to a paint shaker. I used to work in the testing labs at a large consumer electronics company... I have my fair share of "break it until it doesn't break anymore" experience.


Next, Arri tell me they rarely hire out the bevelled marking disks but made them because people asked.
Also the guy kept a selection of 'no name' white disks that were inferior in some way,i.e wouldn't clean, turn yellow etc so research this real carefully.
Thanks for the info. Our current design path is powder coated aluminum disks - They should be really thin and the finish will be similar to that of a dry erase board. The main benefit is that we can bust them out in crazy volumes and they will be much less expensive then a machined ring of plastic. I'm also looking at a few different plastic materials in case that idea falls on its face.

I expect (hope) you can change the gear ration for different lens diameters and maybe incorporate a two-speed ratio & reverse setting here also.
[/QUOTE] The gear ratio is variable and there is an easy method for changing it on the fly... I discussed it on our forum so feel free to check it out.


Make sure you're got a 'fat' gear for external focus lenses. The motors don't ship with a wide gear but we'll make sure that we have one you can buy separately. The motors will ship with 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, and 0.8 mod gears

[Mike Prevette]

Nice work Curt!

how much and when?

[CVB]

Nice work Curt!

how much and when?

A couple options...

Wired option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Micro w/mounting bracket and comm cable: $350

Total: $1250

Wireless option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Standard and comm cable: $750

Total: $1650

Taking orders Week of Feb 25th, Starts shipping End of April 2008. The wireless impero standard will lag by about a month so the second option won't be available until the end of May.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

A couple options...

Wired option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Micro w/mounting bracket and comm cable: $350

Total: $1250

Wireless option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Standard and comm cable: $750

Total: $1650

Taking orders Week of Feb 25th, Starts shipping End of April 2008. The wireless impero standard will lag by about a month so the second option won't be available until the end of May.

Hi Curt,

Congrats it looks great! You've stated before that when ordering the Impero standard there won't be a problem of upgrading it when it's time for the Pro. Is this still the case?

Thanx

fred

[Brook Willard]

Curt, how does the total wireless setup function? Am I accurate with my cable "diagram" below?

Camera----FIZ brain----motor 1----motor 2----motor 3

Or is there anything else that has to be hooked up? Or does it have to be hooked up in a different way? Just trying to grasp the way your wireless setup is built.

[CVB]

Fred... the motors will work with any one of the Imperos... Micro, Standard or Pro.

Brook... One motor max on the aux connector on the camera. If you need to run two or three motors then you'd have to run off the D-tap on the battery (we'll have cables for that). The motors have all the brains... the impero just tells the motor where to go. They also have all necessary voltage conversion on board - you put in 12V-24V and the motors will do the rest.

So here are current the options:

1) Battery DTAP---->Motor1---->Motor2---->Motor3---->Impero_Micro
2) Battery DTAP---->Impero_Standard_Wireless_Receiver_Unit---->Motor1---->Motor2---->Motor3
3) Camera---->Motor1---->Impero_Micro
4) Camera---->Impero_Standard_Wireless_Receiver_Unit---->Motor1

Here are some pending options:

5) Camera---->Supergrip---->Motor1--->Lens_Encoder_Module (The supergrip attaches to the camera and gives you meta data on your footage)
6) Battery DTAP---->Supergrip---->Motor1---->Motor2---->Motor3 (The supergrip attaches to the camera and gives you meta data on your footage)
7) Camera---->Impero_Standard_Wireless_Receiver_Unit---->Birger Mount

The motors all have the ability to be controlled by an Impero Micro(wired) but since we only have two connectors per motor we can only run the last one in the chain with the Impero. We could probably run Y-cables to allow you to run an Impero on each motor. We will probably have a slider version of Impero at some point so it would be cool to run that on the Iris motor. The wireless Impero can run all three of the motors but one at a time.


I'm sure theres tons of options we haven't explored. Hope I haven't made things more confusing :)

[Mark L. Pederson]

Hi Curt,

Looks fantastic.

How silent are your motors?

ANY sound issues at all?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Fred... the motors will work with any one of the Imperos... Micro, Standard or Pro.

Hi Curt,

That I've understood. My question was directed to wether there will be an "upgrade" from the standard Impero to the Pro, considering you will most probably come out with the standard first (and I'll most likely get that in the wait for Pro)?

Thanks,


fred

[M. Bergeron]

ANY sound issues at all?

I would be interested to know that too. From the video it seemed quite loud.

[Brent J. Craig]

A square hole for a speed crank is essential, like Mike Prevette said a lot of us 'Zen' types pull focus by muscle memory.

Not sure I'm sold on using 6 little allen screws to adjust the motor bracket. Seems time consuming.

It would be great if the wireless version had some very simple way to hang off the rods. Basically so I can leave it there for the DP to focus when I go off to craft. It's annoying to come back from a break and see that they have pulled all your motors off because you didn't leave the focus controller nearby!

[Matthew Rogers]

Curt, two questions... Should your motor be considered the RED motor, or is it different? How will you be taking reservations next week? With a deposit or like RedRock and just signup on a list?

Looking forward to this system! I think you will be selling many to more than just RED owners.

Matthew

[philastbury]

During the "Youtube" Demo, i could hear the motor from the FF unit.
If that was running over dialogue in a confined area, it maybe an issue.

[CVB]

How silent are your motors?
ANY sound issues at all? Mark, We found that there were two major issues causing some noise, one was the aluminum gears we were using, the other was the grease filled drivetrain. We have since moved to plastic (Acetal Copolymer) gears and are now using an oil filled drivetrain. The noise should be substantially better than in the video. From my experience I'd say that the motors in the video were slightly louder than an M-One.... I think the new design should be closer to that of the Arrri Motors.


That I've understood. My question was directed to wether there will be an "upgrade" from the standard Impero to the Pro, considering you will most probably come out with the standard first (and I'll most likely get that in the wait for Pro)?
Fred, If you were asking if you could buy and add-on that would make your standard into a pro then the answer is no - the designs aren't modular in that respect. Maybe it will change though.


Not sure I'm sold on using 6 little allen screws to adjust the motor bracket. Seems time consuming.The protos have six screws to put the gears on - it was a quick way to verify the design but not representative of the final product. The final design has no screws - it pops on and is held in place by several detent pins.


Curt, two questions... Should your motor be considered the RED motor, or is it different? How will you be taking reservations next week? With a deposit or like RedRock and just signup on a list? Well, thats a good question. Our motors were originally going to be Red motors but we couldn't deliver at a price point that made sense to go forward with Red Branding. Jim still has the red motors listed on the website so maybe he's got some plans that we're not aware of. So you guys have a decision to make... wait for Jims at $1250 ea or go for ours at $900 ea. :) We will be taking orders next week on our website (with a deposit).

[chuck colburn]

And one can change the overall speed of the unit just by changing the final drive gear to one with a different number of teeth. Which is commonly done with manual units depending on the overall degree or throw of a given lens.
Curt,
The idea of being able to change the viewing angle the way you described sounds good.

[Matthew Rogers]

And one can change the overall speed of the unit just by changing the final drive gear to one with a different number of teeth. Which is commonly done with manual units depending on the overall degree or throw of a given lens.
Curt,
The idea of being able to change the viewing angle the way you described sounds good.

Actually, I think the whole reason behind changing the drive gear... Curt said somewhere that you can change the throw of the FF control wheel so lens's with smaller throws don't have such a small "control throw" (aka, lenses like the RED 18-50) That way those lenses have much finer control by just changing a small setting on the FF (or maybe motor) unit.

Matthew

[CVB]

You can adjust the gearing of the motor on the fly, adjust the lens travel range, and adjust the knob travel range by pressing a couple buttons on the knob. This allows you to take lenses with limited range and expand it so the entire range of the knob controls the limited range on the lens. You can also limit a certain range on the knob to cover the full range of the lens.

Basically you shouldn't have to change out gears for anything other than getting a different pitch for the les you're using.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Curt this looks fantastic!!! Let me know when and where to order

Jay

[SF Geek]

Do you have a wireless handset for this motor or is it only cable driven at the moment?

[Andrew Benz]

Curt this looks fantastic!!! Let me know when and where to order

Jay

I know your busy with your new baby... the info you are looking for is here in this post.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=158964&postcount=32

SF Geek, your answer is in the last line for the wireless controller.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Evin Grant]

The wireless Impero can run all three of the motors but one at a time.

Does that mean you can't do an iris pull at the same time as a focus pull?
What about zooming and focusing simultaneously? It sounds like this is not possible.

[Brook Willard]

How much amperage does the full wireless+3 motors draw? If the brain and one motor approaches the 1A maximum output from the rear Lemo... it's fairly significant?

Also, what's the "resolution" of the digital control? How many steps are there per 360˚ of gear rotation?

How simple will it be to swap out the gear on set? I'm sure you've seen the thumbscrew used on the FF4... will changing gears on these motors require 6 allen bolts?

[Andrew Benz]

...will changing gears on these motors require 6 allen bolts?

Hi Brook, hope all is well, this from Curt in a post above... "The protos have six screws to put the gears on - it was a quick way to verify the design but not representative of the final product. The final design has no screws - it pops on and is held in place by several detent pins."

I look forward to hearing from Curt on your other questions.

Cheers,

Andrew

[CVB]

Evin, The motors can do simultaneous moves and have no problems running at the same time. The Impero standard will be similar to a bartech in that you only have one input device - the knob. The difference is that you can hit a button and jump over to iris or zoom and do quick adjustments then go back to focus. I added a couple buttons for each axis that provide presets for two positions... if you are riding the focus and need to jump from preset one to preset two on the iris, then you can hit one of the buttons to jump between them. Same for the other two axis. The ramping and speed are adjustable using some pots on the back of the unit. You can override the presets so you don't accidentally hit them during normal use and you can also lock out the control so it only operates the currently selected axis.

We are using zigbee for the wireless so it uses an architecture that is digitally encrypted... no interference. The plus side is that you can map multiple Imperos to the same receiver and run focus on one unit and Iris on another - great for DP's that want to do Iris. BTW, The pro will have three input devices - a microforce-like stick for zoom, a knob for focus, and a slider for iris. It will allow you to run all three functions at the same time.


How much amperage does the full wireless+3 motors draw? If the brain and one motor approaches the 1A maximum output from the rear Lemo... it's fairly significant?
For best performance you need to run at least 12V@1.5A per motor (18W) the receiver draws about 0.25 Amps@12V(6 watts). You can run one motor and the receiver of of the rear lemo on the camera no problem, three is a no-no.



Also, what's the "resolution" of the digital control? How many steps are there per 360˚ of gear rotation?The encoder on the motor is 13bit (8192 cpr) so that gives you a resolution of .044 degrees at the motor.... then we run it through the 50:1 zero backlash harmonic drive... the resolution is limited to the harmonic drives performance which is typically +/- 3 arc minutes (.05 degrees). We are using the same encoder on the impero control knob so you have essentially no discernible cogging... it feels just like a regular follow focus and you forget that its a motor.

[Evin Grant]

Do we have pricing/availabiliy for the pro yet?
Thanks Curt.

[Mike Prevette]

EDIT: oops late!

Evin,

He says in the video that the motors are on a "bus" which means each one has an individual address and can be sent simultaneous commands. Just like having multiple firewire or USB devices hooked to a computer.

[CVB]

Do we have pricing/availabiliy for the pro yet?
Thanks Curt. The pro is going to lag about a month or two behind the standard version... mainly due to the horrendous amounts of coding we're going to have to do. Pricing is expected to be $1200 but I reserve the right to tweak that. The pro will have a full color graphical interface and lens database. We're not only getting the lens limits for displaying the zoom,focus, and iris values on screen but were also mapping out the lens performance curves to get a relation between focal length and lens breathing. All of the data will be available online so you can download the info to an SD card to use in the pro. Lots of work ahead :) - Luckily were getting some contractors soon.

[Evin Grant]

Bitchen, I want one. And Curt... feel free to call when you get to field testing :ninja:

[Poi Boy]

You really should test it in the salt air in Kailua.
Aloha
-A

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Hi Curt,

What would you say would be the best way of doing this, for us that wants the Pro? I would love to have two (for each of my cameras) Impero micro and Pro as a solution. Can your considered Pro "packaged deal" be added afterwards, if I got the Micro? They're both using same motors?

The way I see it is to get the Micro and then bite the bullet and nicely stay put and try to not buy the standard when it comes out. As the Pro gets out I would just include to the motor already purchased in the micro system? Would that that be feasible for you?

Thanks


fred

[CVB]

Fred, Let em think about that a bit... I'm sure we'll have some sort of package deals but the savings aren't going to be huge - Our margins are pretty low so there's not a lot of room for much discounting. I'll see what we can work out.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Thanks!

It's very appreciated and keep up the good work we all believe in you.:weight_lift:

Also, have you considered to make an RCU just like ARRI's?

(if you have, maybe you should consider to make it wireless)


Thanx,


Fred

[PaulClements]

Thanks for the hard work Curt and Co. It's all looking really good.

One word of friendly advice - Hit your delivery dates please :) I only wanted to add this in there because there seems to be a growing trend with 3rd party red products that seem to be missing deadlines rather a lot. And given it looks like you have the majority of your product in place it'd be sad to see it drag on. Also please make sure the reservation system works well! Sorry if this sounds patronising in any way, it's genuinely not meant too!

All this boring stuff aside though... Great work!!! You guys look like you're having a bunch of fun.

Thanks a lot
Paul

[CVB]

Paul.. thanks for the advice. I agree 100%. Like I said before, I'm finally going to have some help on the engineering side so things should move much faster in the next couple months. Much like jim I tend to put out dates that are very optimistic and assume everything goes to plan. If I have vendors that drop the ball then the dates get jacked - not much I can do about that other than pad the dates.

[Larry McKee]

Curt, I would like to echo David Farland's suggestion for the fat gear. Not an issue with my primes, but my zoom will need one.

[Adrian T.]

Will the system remember its current calibration settings when power is interrupted (camera off/battery change) or is it necessary to recalibrate the motors and mark the disk again after a power cut?

[CVB]

Larry, The fat gear shouldn't be an issue... just another part.

Currently the motor will go out of calibration on loss of power. Recalibration takes about 15 seconds. I know its a pain to have to recalibrate on battery changes but its hard for our hardware to discern between being briefly powered down and being powered down for days... the latter case might result in broken lenses or gears because of old calibration data. On the upside... you can unplug the impero micro from the motor and move the knob to the current motor position... then plug it back in and your marks will still match up.

Here's another option... What if we add a "goto last known position" button on the Impero... that way if you have to change out a battery you can just recalibrate after the change out then hit the last position button on the knob to bring the motor to the same position as the knob. Assuming you dont move the knob around while you're changing the battery.

I'll look into some options for that issue though, thanks for bringing it up.

[Finner]

Curt will you put the same beeping system on the standard and pro remote units that is on the start stop?

What batteries are planned for the remote units?

[Mark Pedersen]

The pro is going to lag about a month or two behind the standard version... mainly due to the horrendous amounts of coding we're going to have to do. Pricing is expected to be $1200 but I reserve the right to tweak that. The pro will have a full color graphical interface and lens database. We're not only getting the lens limits for displaying the zoom,focus, and iris values on screen but were also mapping out the lens performance curves to get a relation between focal length and lens breathing. All of the data will be available online so you can download the info to an SD card to use in the pro. Lots of work ahead :) - Luckily were getting some contractors soon.

Curt,

Congrats on a great design! I hope the motors are effectively silent for obvious reasons... If so, you've got a winner here.

The pro version sounds awesome. I'm a little confused by the data side of things on the Pro version. It sounds like you're providing lens databases that can be downloaded off the Web for different lenses, then uploaded via SD card to the Pro so it "knows" the characteristics of that particular lens. But can the data you describe be recorded to SD on a per shot basis? So you'd have a recording of the lens data, focal changes, iris, etc. And could that metadata be sent to the Red? In other words, could this provide a "poor man's LDS"? Or is the Lens Data Archive model more of what you are targeting?

Or am I jus smokin' crack?

Can you clarify?

M

[Gunleik Groven]

I'm in for start/stop, and FF/iris/zoom

PM me when ready to take orders.

Gunleik

[CVB]

Curt will you put the same beeping system on the standard and pro remote units that is on the start stop?
What batteries are planned for the remote units? Yup, I'm going to have the same beep-o-matic option on the wireless remotes - not on the Impero micro though. I'm looking at using a 9V battery for the remote, if you have a recommendation that makes more sense let me know.



The pro version sounds awesome. I'm a little confused by the data side of things on the Pro version. It sounds like you're providing lens databases that can be downloaded off the Web for different lenses, then uploaded via SD card to the Pro so it "knows" the characteristics of that particular lens. But can the data you describe be recorded to SD on a per shot basis? So you'd have a recording of the lens data, focal changes, iris, etc. And could that metadata be sent to the Red? In other words, could this provide a "poor man's LDS"? Or is the Lens Data Archive model more of what you are targeting? Yes, you can do you own lens calibration... you'd have to type all the marked values on the lens barrel for zoom, focus, and Iris so that the system can calculate a curve - you can't just put the beginning and end values because the values are non linear. For basic readouts this would suffice 90% of the time. That data could easily be relayed to the camera... assuming red gets/has their serial protocols squared away. We've already got some code in place for that eventuality.

The other issue is that we are mapping much more than just the values on the lens barrel, we are looking at the way the focus and zoom optically interact with one another so we can compensate for any lens breathing. Some people love this idea (poor Indies) some people think its a waste of time (rich Studios). Basically as you pull focus the zoom motor can advance or back off the zoom relative to the focus to eliminate the breathing in the lens. Its a tricky setup to get the data and definitely something that won't happen in the field but the results are really impressive. We will be able to essentially remove all the breathing but at the cost of a little zoom range at the extreme focal lengths.

[Finner]

Yup, I'm going to have the same beep-o-matic option on the wireless remotes - not on the Impero micro though.

Good news. Luv the beep-o-matic



I'm looking at using a 9V battery for the remote, if you have a recommendation that makes more sense let me know.

How long do you think a 9v would last? This thing will be in the cold. Maybe two or three 9V's instead of just one.

[Yean Loon]

.. it feels just like a regular follow focus and you forget that its a motor.

does that mean this could be the only follow focus i would need?? :)

no more stressing over whether it's the Arri or Donan or Redrock or Chrosziel.....beautiful.....i'm too simple a man to take all that stress!!:clown2:

[CVB]

I'm shooting for 12-14 hours on one set of batteries. Everything we are using is actually 3V so the 9V might not be the most effective. As I finalize the enclosure I'll run some options by you guys.

[Brook Willard]

Curt, throw it in the freezer and see how the battery holds up. That's fairly impressive life, but a replaceable rechargeable battery might take the cake.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Curt,

With manual calibration, is it possible to set the end points for lens barrels that don't have hard stops (like the Nikon 17-35)? Or if we want to restrict or confine the range of a certain zoom, etc..?

[Mark Pedersen]

Yes, you can do you own lens calibration... you'd have to type all the marked values on the lens barrel for zoom, focus, and Iris so that the system can calculate a curve - you can't just put the beginning and end values because the values are non linear. For basic readouts this would suffice 90% of the time. That data could easily be relayed to the camera... assuming red gets/has their serial protocols squared away. We've already got some code in place for that eventuality.

The other issue is that we are mapping much more than just the values on the lens barrel, we are looking at the way the focus and zoom optically interact with one another so we can compensate for any lens breathing. Some people love this idea (poor Indies) some people think its a waste of time (rich Studios). Basically as you pull focus the zoom motor can advance or back off the zoom relative to the focus to eliminate the breathing in the lens. Its a tricky setup to get the data and definitely something that won't happen in the field but the results are really impressive. We will be able to essentially remove all the breathing but at the cost of a little zoom range at the extreme focal lengths.

I wasn't wanting to do my own calibration per se... but let's say I have a set of Ultra Primes... As part of your database offering, it sounds like you guys would get a set Ultra Primes from a rental shop or whatever, calibrate the lenses, post the data to a website where I could download the "lens profiles" for Arri Ultraprimes. It then load that data into an SD card reader on your control unit, and voila, as soon as I put up the 32 and load it's "profile" data, the FF "knows" that lens's characteristics. In other words, it's "pre-calibrated." But what does that buy me? Once I run the limits on the 32, does your system then know how to "go to" say... 12.255' on the focus? So if I taped it out, and compared it, it would be bang on? Or do I still have to tape my focus points, set my marks electronically (assuming the wireless control unit here) and then it can consistently hit that mark?

Seems there would be enough variability in lenses (even top lenses like the Ultra Primes), that would make field calibration necessary no matter what. Or can you just enter a correcting offset if needed and away you go?

Hell, maybe it just makes sense to give you a call to discuss ;)

The correction for breathing sounds very interesting as well. Seems like it would be REALLY hard to do without it being visible, and again, lenses seem to vary on that count a lot depending on the inherent quality of the lenses in question.... But an interesting and worthwhile goal!


M

[CVB]

I wasn't wanting to do my own calibration per se... but let's say I have a set of Ultra Primes... As part of your database offering, it sounds like you guys would get a set Ultra Primes from a rental shop or whatever, calibrate the lenses, post the data to a website where I could download the "lens profiles" for Arri Ultraprimes. It then load that data into an SD card reader on your control unit, and voila, as soon as I put up the 32 and load it's "profile" data, the FF "knows" that lens's characteristics. In other words, it's "pre-calibrated." But what does that buy me? Once I run the limits on the 32, does your system then know how to "go to" say... 12.255' on the focus? So if I taped it out, and compared it, it would be bang on? Or do I still have to tape my focus points, set my marks electronically (assuming the wireless control unit here) and then it can consistently hit that mark?

Seems there would be enough variability in lenses (even top lenses like the Ultra Primes), that would make field calibration necessary no matter what. Or can you just enter a correcting offset if needed and away you go?

Hell, maybe it just makes sense to give you a call to discuss ;)

The correction for breathing sounds very interesting as well. Seems like it would be REALLY hard to do without it being visible, and again, lenses seem to vary on that count a lot depending on the inherent quality of the lenses in question.... But an interesting and worthwhile goal!


MMark, C-motion's $20,000 system does the same thing when they calibrate to lenses... The mechanical limits are fairly consistent so the error is minimal from one lens to another. After the motors know the limits they send that data to the controller and it calculates the Focal length, distance or t-stop and gives you a readout on the screen.

[Brook Willard]

Mark,

Every lens is different - even lenses in the same series. Your profile idea would only work if it was integrated in the way that the C-Motion system uses it: where each bit of lens data is based upon that individual lens's serial number rather than the generic series. Even then, re-calibration of the lens can throw off that data.

The solution is for the AC to build profiles for each of the lenses they're going to use on a show during the prep. Those profiles could then be recalled whenever a lens change takes place. At the end of the show, those profiles would essentially go in the trash. Even if you saved those profiles until next time and got the exact same lenses, the AC would still have to go through each lens profile to make sure it's still accurate... which would presumably take as much time as simply recreating the lens profiles at the second show's prep.

Generally after profiles on a given show have been created, the FIZ/LCS/whatever will re-identify the lens based on the amount of barrel rotation from stop to stop. There are generally slight differences between focal lengths in a given series, so the system would automatically identify which focal length you put on the camera and simply recall the profile that was used the last time that lens was on the camera. These profiles are show-specific that are created during the prep. Depending on the system [FIZ vs. LCS, model to model], the focus marks are either recalled digitally or a manually marked focus ring specific to that lens is put onto the focus knob of the remote follow focus.

The C-Motion system uses RFID tags which are attached to the lens cap to "scan" the lens before it is mounted on the camera. This will access a significant database onboard the device to identify the exact lens you are using. It can also use lens metadata [/i or LDS] from the camera body or from a lens with a proper port on it to identify the lens and its focus, iris and zoom markings. It's a great system, but the full [3-axis with all accessories] system is roughly $40,000 the last time I checked. I love the system and its features, but it isn't widely accepted for a few reasons: it's new, complicated and expensive. Most ACs would approach the idea of switching to the C-Motion with a "Just get a FIZ. It's the standard." reaction.

Curt, will the professional model of your wireless system interface with the camera's lens metadata for focus, iris and zoom marks? Even if it required a USB connection, it'd be worth it.

[Dylan Reeve]

Sounds like you'd be wanting a little app to build and modify profiles for lenses that the AC could use to build their own profiles, or tweak existing profiles.

Given that people tend to work with the same lens sets over and over again it would only be a small amount of work for a pretty big payoff.

As someone who's done a bit of broadcast vision control in the past, I was wondering if this system could be used, in conjunction with a USB input into the camera to simulate a CCU controller... Not that I'm sure there'd be much call for it, and I don't think the colour matrix info can be animated in a file, so CCU type operation wouldn't really be possible anyway. Still, that's what I wondered :)

[CVB]

Curt, will the professional model of your wireless system interface with the camera's lens metadata for focus, iris and zoom marks? Even if it required a USB connection, it'd be worth it. I think they patented that rfid thingy... all of the imperos have a usb port for upgrading firmware... It could be tweaked to send and receive lens data - let us get them out the door then we can tweak things and see what we can pull off. Shouldn't be too difficult though.

[Mark Pedersen]

Curt,

I'd love to get chance to ask few follow up questions. Too hard to have a dialog on the forum. I'll PM you with my contact info.

Are you guys exhibiting at NAB?

M

[CVB]

We're working on getting a booth right now... we're zeroing in on a nice little 10'x10' about 100' from red's tent.

[Mark Pedersen]

Great Idea. I think Arri was close by if I recall... ;)

Can't wait for this year's show. I'll probably get my camera the week before.

Cya there!

m

[Rick Darge]

Hey Curt,

Are you guys releasing some secrets this year?

I'm willing a mattebox!

Can't wait to meet you all

[Alexander Nikishin]

Looks like it's coming along perfectly Curt, can't wait to plop down my order.

[Damien Molineaux]

Curt,

With manual calibration, is it possible to set the end points for lens barrels that don't have hard stops (like the Nikon 17-35)? Or if we want to restrict or confine the range of a certain zoom, etc..?

Hi Curt & bros,

This is looking like the ultimate follow focus, congratulations, count me in. I would like to reiterate (is that english) Jeff's question : what about lenses with no hard stops (I also have a beautiful Nikon 17-35) ?

Cheers,
Damien

[dalemccready]

Nice one Curt and family. I did a shoot the other day with a Red and the client wasn't filmy, I used the 18-50mm with no focus puller or FF and I was thinking that it would've been cool to have my own motorized focus controller.

This fits the bill nicely. I'll be in for one motor, controller and short and long cables.

If it's real good I know a whole bunch of Steadicam ops that will be interested in your wireless. We're always looking for new focus bits n bobs.

Dale

[Sergei Franklin]

I am a steadicam operator and own a Bartech. I am interested in purchasing the PRO version. For the the receiver to fit on a steadicam it needs some mounting screws or bracket and controls on the side. The pictures I saw would put all the buttons on the bottom when mounted on a steadicam.
I would post your info on www.steadicamforum.com , I believe many steadicam operators would be interested in your system. ( Also Jib operators, they might also have a forum).
I would also recommend an input for data from the Cine Tape from www.cinematographyelectronics.com; a lot of AC's like to use this.
Please talk to many AC's as they are the users.
Also need marking rings as sometimes we show up for a day on a movie and there is no time to create a lens database.
Sergei Franklin
http://sergeifranklin.com/

[CVB]

Hi Curt & bros,This is looking like the ultimate follow focus, congratulations, count me in. I would like to reiterate (is that english) Jeff's question : what about lenses with no hard stops (I also have a beautiful Nikon 17-35) ?
You can override the automatic calibration by pressing the cw and ccw soft limit buttons at the same time... then move to one limit and press "cw limit" and go to the other limit and press "ccw limit" Easy as pie.


I am a steadicam operator and own a Bartech. I am interested in purchasing the PRO version. For the the receiver to fit on a steadicam it needs some mounting screws or bracket and controls on the side. The pictures I saw would put all the buttons on the bottom when mounted on a steadicam.
I would post your info on www.steadicamforum.com , I believe many steadicam operators would be interested in your system. ( Also Jib operators, they might also have a forum).
I would also recommend an input for data from the Cine Tape from www.cinematographyelectronics.com; a lot of AC's like to use this.
Please talk to many AC's as they are the users.
Also need marking rings as sometimes we show up for a day on a movie and there is no time to create a lens database.
Sergei Franklin
http://sergeifranklin.com/ Thanks for the feedback Sergei... I'll be sure to take that into account when I send out for the next round of protos on the wireless units.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You can override the automatic calibration by pressing the cw and ccw soft limit buttons at the same time... then move to one limit and press "cw limit" and go to the other limit and press "ccw limit" Easy as pie.

Great!


Thanks for the feedback Sergei... I'll be sure to take that into account when I send out for the next round of protos on the wireless units.

I will also be looking to use this unit (wirelessly) with the ActionCam. Sometimes it will need to be on-board, but will be in the hands of 1AC whenever possible.

[Zach Hilton]

Couldn't see it, but will this unit communicate with the Red specifically for iris control when doing in camera ramping? Also, just so I understand correctly. Each Inclino motor is $900 and the Pro model of the Impero is around $1200 (subject to change)? So essentially for a working motor and wireless follow focus I'd need to get a motor (Inclino) and either the wired, Standard, or Pro (Impero)? Is that correct? Thanks. Looking forward to placing an order for this.

[CVB]

Yup.. just what you said. You need the motor and one of the impero units to operate it. You can run a motor on zoom, focus or iris but it currently doesn't communicate to the camera. We have the hardware in place in impero to allow external control but would need to talk to the guys are red and get that functionality going. It shouldn't be too difficult to setup two points and relay that info to the camera... then have the camera divide the motion into segments and issue move commands at each frame of the ramp.

[vincelucero]

Wow. That's going to be sick when enabled. Amazing times we live in.

[thomas273]

hello Curt,
any updates on availability and final price of the Impero Standard remote FF set? is there a pre-order list to get on?

also price and availability on the Remote Record Start n Stop for the Red grip?

thanks

[Damien Molineaux]

hello Curt,
any updates on availability and final price of the Impero Standard remote FF set? is there a pre-order list to get on?

also price and availability on the Remote Record Start n Stop for the Red grip?

thanks

Please read through a thread before asking questions that you know others must have asked before you. Since I'm a nice guy (today) you'll find your answers on page 2, post #17 and page 4, post #32

Cheers,
Damien

[James T Mather]

I'm a little unclear on something (and yes, I have read the thread) - can we buy the first (ie: wired version) and then upgrade the remote - or do you have to buy the whole thing again when it goes wireless?

Thanks

j.

[CVB]

We designed these so we can incrementally upgrade the technology. You can get the motors with the Impero Micro (the wired knob) then get the Impero Standard later and it will work fine.

[James T Mather]

incredible - I'm in - you taking orders on monday?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Actually. You should make the way that you can just change the ring from the micro over to the standard or the Pro. The motor should already be calibrated for the lens, so maybe it could be in the way that you just connect you transmitter instead of the Micro? That way it's a seaming less situation and you can move from manuel focus to remote.

(You've probably though about this and are to make it already :biggrin: )

Thanks,


fred

[CVB]

Can't guarantee it will be Monday but definitely next week.

Fred... yeah, we thought about that. You had to go and ruin our big surprise.. oh well. If I can make it work nicely then theres a possibility that the cost of the standard will go down... no promises ;)

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Can't guarantee it will be Monday but definitely next week.

Fred... yeah, we thought about that. You had to go and ruin our big surprise.. oh well. If I can make it work nicely then theres a possibility that the cost of the standard will go down... no promises ;)

HAHAHAHA That looks brilliant.

My question is - that's the standard you're showing there, will that be a part of the Pro solution? Reason for me wondering is because I haven't seen the actual FF solution on your rendered pics for the Pro, but guessed it was the standard together with the ones you have rendered?

(ohh and I'm really sorry that I ruined the surprise, so sorry :waaa: )

Thanks

fred

[CVB]

Well, Were trying to make the whole line up be something that you can incrementally add to (based off feedback from everyone in the forum) and sometimes thats not always conducive to making affordable systems. Part of the reason we are taking so long is that we want to get it right and not have customers blow all their money on the micro or standard just to have to throw it all away when they get the pro. I also don't want people holding off on adopting our stuff while waiting for the pro.

We'll post a few renders of the overall design as soon as I get the opportunity in the next week (we need to have nice renders for the website store anyway)

Here's a VERY old render of the pro version (http://viewfactor.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11.0;attach=27;ima ge)... notice the rough form factor of the impero standard turned sideways. We are looking into some fairly awesome displays and are toying around with the idea of getting the video feed off the camera on the pro as well. This is all in flux but we should an architecture in place before we start taking orders on the Impero Standard.

[James T Mather]

"And the technical achievment award goes to... " - drum roll.

Looks amazing. Well done guys.

[CVB]

Lets wait until its in your hands ;)

[Fredrik Callinggard]

... notice the rough form factor of the impero standard turned sideways. We are looking into some fairly awesome displays and are toying around with the idea of getting the video feed off the camera on the pro as well. This is all in flux but we should narrow down an architecture before we start taking orders on the Impero Standard.


Ahh ok that makes sense now. Please let me know what you think would be the best way of approaching this for me. As I've stated before I'd like to get 2 micro's and 2 Pro's (to start with) for my cameras. Just want to go out and play with this as soon as possible :) , but also don't want to be to stupid. Then again with the prices that your to sell these for, I should maybe just invest in it all!!!!!! :love: :love: :love:

[ericyoung]

For all those old fashioned types (:wink:) out there that want double sided FF wheels - is it possible to have a knob on both sides that can control the same focus motor? Basically replicating the two sided operation of a mechanical two sided FF rig.

I know it wouldn't take long to unclamp the knob and move it from one side to the other, but if an AC just wanted a traditional setup where they can just grab the nearest control, then they could?

[James T Mather]

For all those old fashioned types (:wink:) out there that want double sided FF wheels - is it possible to have a knob on both sides that can control the same focus motor? Basically replicating the two sided operation of a mechanical two sided FF rig.

I know it wouldn't take long to unclamp the knob and move it from one side to the other, but if an AC just wanted a traditional setup where they can just grab the nearest control, then they could?

for that I imagine the price would double.

[adapmal]

Curt,

I also have a suggestion. It'd be great to have something a product similar to a Preston Microforce zoom control. This control should also be able to start/stop camera. And if you could make it smaller and fit into Red's handheld config + pan arm, like microforce+oppenheimer panhandle bracket, it'd be just awesome.

Keep up the good work.

ching

[chuck colburn]

Speaking of two sides, can the drive gear be mounted on either side of the motor?

[CVB]

For all those old fashioned types (:wink:) out there that want double sided FF wheels - is it possible to have a knob on both sides that can control the same focus motor? Basically replicating the two sided operation of a mechanical two sided FF rig.

I know it wouldn't take long to unclamp the knob and move it from one side to the other, but if an AC just wanted a traditional setup where they can just grab the nearest control, then they could? That may be a bit difficult... the biggest problem I can think of is that the knobs will not be synchronized to the actual motor position, ie one side could say 2 feet, the other could say 20 feet. When you go to move the knob that is not representative of where the motor actually is, the motor will rush to get to the current position indicated by the knob you are turning. The other issue is that the knobs aren't setup to be on a bus (only the motors)... that being the case it may be difficult. I'll put that on the list of things to look into - maybe we can make a simple slave knob that connects to the Impero Micro. Its not a slam dunk easy solution though.


Curt,I also have a suggestion. It'd be great to have something a product similar to a Preston Microforce zoom control. This control should also be able to start/stop camera. And if you could make it smaller and fit into Red's handheld config + pan arm, like microforce+oppenheimer panhandle bracket, it'd be just awesome. Already on it... have a look at the render for the Impero pro that I posted a page back - there is a custom force sensor ala microforce on the remote. The super grip fits that description perfectly but that depends on when it gets into production.


Speaking of two sides, can the drive gear be mounted on either side of the motor?Nope, the gear only works on one side of the motor... but we designed it so you can just flip it over.... there are two connectors that are mirror image of one another.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

....and for all of you that missed it - go pack to page 10 and you will be happily surprised!!!

[ericyoung]

That may be a bit difficult... the biggest problem I can think of is that the knobs will not be synchronized to the actual motor position, ie one side could say 2 feet, the other could say 20 feet. When you go to move the knob that is not representative of where the motor actually is, the motor will rush to get to the current position indicated by the knob you are turning. The other issue is that the knobs aren't setup to be on a bus (only the motors)... that being the case it may be difficult. I'll put that on the list of things to look into - maybe we can make a simple slave knob that connects to the Impero Micro. Its not a slam dunk easy solution though...

Of course - didn't really think it through. Not a big priority for me personally - just thinking out loud. :calm:

If you're already making a square socket for focus whips/speed cranks, would it be possible to make the socket go all the way through the middle? Then all you would need would be a "dumb" extra knob for the other side which could be mechanically coupled to the real "smart" control knob by a square shaft? Keeping it mechanical and simple would keep cost down, and minimise redesign. I imagine not everyone would need this, but an add on extra for those you do.

[CVB]

Thats a great idea... unfortunately we are using an encoder that does not have a pass thru... the shaft from the knob basically hovers over the encoder sensor.
Another option is that the whole impero micro pops off with the flick of a lever and takes less than a second to do. Then just run it with the wire over to the other side and have another bracket waiting. If you can't spare the 10 seconds to make the change over then that probably wouldn't work for some people.

[thomas273]

guess you missed my ?

how can I get on the list or purchase the Impero Standard?
I've sent messages? posted in the forums? even called...
no response.....?

[James T Mather]

I believe orders are commencing next week.

[CVB]

guess you missed my ?

how can I get on the list or purchase the Impero Standard?
I've sent messages? posted in the forums? even called...
no response.....? Thomas, I want to apologize... Out toll free number is terrible and I think this is the last straw... I'm calling tomorrow to get a new one lined up so we actually know when we get calls. I just checked and we had over 100 messages that were stored in the voice mail that never got to me.

As for your question, we will be taking orders on the Inclino motors and the Impero Micro next week. Keep an eye on the website and we should have something in place to take your order.

[James T Mather]

PS Curt - I'm Loving your remote/mocon head - when are they going into full blown production?

[CVB]

End of April or at the latest the beginning of May... Finally got all our resources in order and are pulling the trigger on the components. We are going to be very busy :) Be sure to goto NAB this year.. OK.. just signed up for a new phone service... gotta love the internet. We'll update the web page with our new contact info. Hopefully we won't miss anymore calls now.

[Alexander Nikishin]

CVB, would you be willing to go by the earliest RED res# get's served first policy?

I don't want to be stuck at the tail end of a long list because I didn't hop on the order qeue fast enough.

[Mitch Gross]

Can you machine the Micro so that there is a molded square hole on the front and back? Not a pass through, but essentially a "wrap-around" mechanical connection for a square hole? Then the "dummy side" knob is essentially a focus whip.

So a conceptual question on the Micro: Say I have three motors hooked up. I'm pulling focus and at five feet decide to switch to the zoom to adjust from 20mm to 30mm. I've now rotated the knob 30 degrees. Now I switch back to focus. Does the focus position suddenly whip from 5' to 20'? How does this work?

Mitch

[Steve Freebairn]

Can you machine the Micro so that there is a molded square hole on the front and back? Not a pass through, but essentially a "wrap-around" mechanical connection for a square hole? Then the "dummy side" knob is essentially a focus whip.

So a conceptual question on the Micro: Say I have three motors hooked up. I'm pulling focus and at five feet decide to switch to the zoom to adjust from 20mm to 30mm. I've now rotated the knob 30 degrees. Now I switch back to focus. Does the focus position suddenly whip from 5' to 20'? How does this work?

Mitch

Great question.

Another question is, will these work with your moco head? So we could do shots with PTZ and FIZ

[Steve Freebairn]

CVB, would you be willing to go by the earliest RED res# get's served first policy?

I don't want to be stuck at the tail end of a long list because I didn't hop on the order qeue fast enough.

Seems like it would be a better idea if you took them in the order you got them. He's selling a product for many different cameras, not just Red. Also, we can't expect the Red order numbers to mean something the rest of life :)

[luis bustamante]

Great product Curt, as usual, count us in!

A couple of questions: How long can the cable between the motor and the micro be? Also, can we have the micro connected and use the remote control at the same time? It would be nice to be able to have both, I think.

Thanks,

[CVB]

CVB, would you be willing to go by the earliest RED res# get's served first policy? I don't want to be stuck at the tail end of a long list because I didn't hop on the order que fast enough.
Alexander, Aa much as I appreciate the red crowd I think its best to do first come first serve. We are not hand making these units like a number of other companies do...they are going to be in high volume production and as such the lead times shouldn't be too terrible.


Can you machine the Micro so that there is a molded square hole on the front and back? Not a pass through, but essentially a "wrap-around" mechanical connection for a square hole? Then the "dummy side" knob is essentially a focus whip. I could do that but it will most likely introduce backlash. The elegant part about what we have right now is that there is zero (as in none) backlash in the system. The encoder wheel is directly attach to the knob and the motor has an encoder that directly translates your input without any slop. That said, we are looking into some options... most likely we will be trying to run one impero as a master and another as a slave.



So a conceptual question on the Micro: Say I have three motors hooked up. I'm pulling focus and at five feet decide to switch to the zoom to adjust from 20mm to 30mm. I've now rotated the knob 30 degrees. Now I switch back to focus. Does the focus position suddenly whip from 5' to 20'? How does this work? The impero micro only controls the axis that its plugged into... if you are referring to the Impero standard then yes, the position will jump when you go back to the focus. It will be controlled and have a smooth movement though, nothing scary. If you can think of a better behavior then I'm listening.


Another question is, will these work with your moco head? So we could do shots with PTZ and FIZ Yup, thats why we're taking a bit longer on releasing Mirus... got to make sure everything plays nice with one another. The idea would be that you can do your pan/tilt moco shot then play it back and do the FIZ portion... after that the the FIZ tracks are laid on top of the pan/tilt tracks for the final moco shot.


A couple of questions: How long can the cable between the motor and the micro be? Also, can we have the micro connected and use the remote control at the same time? It would be nice to be able to have both, I think. The cables can run to about 12 feet... maybe more but I know for sure it can at least do that. The motors can take commands from the impero micro at the same time as the impero standard... there is a lockout so you can make sure no one bumps it while you are wireless. You would still have the issue of the mirco being in a position other than the motors actual position... see the question the mitch had above.

[luis bustamante]

excellent! thanks. We want ours yesterday!

[Damien Molineaux]

...



Originally Posted by Mitch Gross View Post:
So a conceptual question on the Micro: Say I have three motors hooked up. I'm pulling focus and at five feet decide to switch to the zoom to adjust from 20mm to 30mm. I've now rotated the knob 30 degrees. Now I switch back to focus. Does the focus position suddenly whip from 5' to 20'? How does this work?

The impero micro only controls the axis that its plugged into... if you are referring to the Impero standard then yes, the position will jump when you go back to the focus. It will be controlled and have a smooth movement though, nothing scary. If you can think of a better behavior then I'm listening.

...

Well, I would like it where the knob changes position, but that would mean motorizing the knob, maybe way too complicated ; at the least though, what we need is a non-functional position so we can turn the knob back where it's in the corresponding position before switching back to focus or whatever we want to control, possible ?

Cheers,
Damien

[Mitch Gross]

I think that given this, the only reason to ever use the Micro with multiple motors would be to change settings on a lens in between takes where it is remotely rigged in such a way as to be inconvenient to be adjusted directly. For example hanging from a jib. But in such a case I cannot imagine not wanting full control of the lens all in realtime using a device such as a Preston, or frankly even three separate controllers. A remote controller that one cannot use during a shot because it will reset itself is not particularly useful.

Mitch

[Curran Giddens]

Yup, thats why we're taking a bit longer on releasing Mirus... got to make sure everything plays nice with one another. The idea would be that you can do your pan/tilt moco shot then play it back and do the FIZ portion... after that the the FIZ tracks are laid on top of the pan/tilt tracks for the final moco shot.

Nice! This is exactly what I want to do with my RED/Mirus/Inclino/Impero rig.

Now all I want is to also be able to use the Mirus like a normal fluid head. Yes, I know it will still need to use power, but I want it to be able to handle a 30lbs. RED/VFS rig without any issues due to too much weight.

[CVB]

Well, I would like it where the knob changes position, but that would mean motorizing the knob, maybe way too complicated ; at the least though, what we need is a non-functional position so we can turn the knob back where it's in the corresponding position before switching back to focus or whatever we want to control, possible ?
Yeah, the motorizing option gets to be very messy... all the sudden a $350 product will cascade into a much higher price range. How about this as an option... on the current design the impero micro only controls one motor - so this problem isn't really a problem at the moment. We could evaluate things and see if we can upgrade the functionality of the impero standard and make it so you have three input devices (microforce, knob, slider) and maybe raise the price a small amount. Then we could lower the price on the pro version because we would have integrated it into the standard. Regardless, I really think the micro is a single axis design... if we try using it for three axis then things get confusing.



Now all I want is to also be able to use the Mirus like a normal fluid head. Yes, I know it will still need to use power, but I want it to be able to handle a 30lbs. RED/VFS rig without any issues due to too much weight. The working load for the system is currently 35-40 pounds (we need to get some testing in place). The lower the cg of the camera the better... it might be a good idea to run power through the head and keep the camera in a minimal configuration (no battery on the camera). We have plenty of pass through connections to both power the camera and get the monitor feed as well so we could easily make adapter cables for both the top and bottom side.

[Curran Giddens]

The working load for the system is currently 35-40 pounds (we need to get some testing in place). The lower the cg of the camera the better... it might be a good idea to run power through the head and keep the camera in a minimal configuration (no battery on the camera). We have plenty of pass through connections to both power the camera and get the monitor feed as well so we could easily make adapter cables for both the top and bottom side.

Good news about the 35-40 pound working load!

I leave the battery off the camera anyway using the battery plate belt clip. Power through the head is even better.

I can't wait to get all this cool gear!

[zak forrest]

In the video it seemed like it was a bit noisy, is the final product going to be silent?

[Damien Molineaux]

Yeah, the motorizing option gets to be very messy... all the sudden a $350 product will cascade into a much higher price range. How about this as an option... on the current design the impero micro only controls one motor - so this problem isn't really a problem at the moment. We could evaluate things and see if we can upgrade the functionality of the impero standard and make it so you have three input devices (microforce, knob, slider) and maybe raise the price a small amount. Then we could lower the price on the pro version because we would have integrated it into the standard. Regardless, I really think the micro is a single axis design... if we try using it for three axis then things get confusing.

...

Sounds like a good option. Looking forward to being able to place my order.

Cheers,
Damien

[Alexander Nikishin]

Curt, so let me sort this out.......

If I were to purchase the Inclino (Which should go on sale next week right?)
all I would need aside from the Inclino for a wireless FF setup would be your Impero Pro model, which is a wireless remote?

If so, when will both be open for deposits, and what amount will the deposit required be?

Same question for the Origo.

Thanks.

[CVB]

Curt, so let me sort this out.......

If I were to purchase the Inclino (Which should go on sale next week right?)
all I would need aside from the Inclino for a wireless FF setup would be your Impero Pro model, which is a wireless remote?

If so, when will both be open for deposits, and what amount will the deposit required be?

Same question for the Origo.

Thanks.
Yes.. You basically need an Inclino and an Impero to have a fully functioning system. The micro is going to be the first that goes out the door followed by the standard and pro... they're going to be out towards the end of May and June respectively. The Impero micro will be wired but its going to be a modular design that clicks into the standard/pro to make it wireless.

The Inclino's and Impero Micro should be up for ordering this week but we're in the process of getting final quotes in for the tooling and assembly... if that comes in soon then its still a go, otherwise its may be next week.

We will be taking orders on Impero standard as soon as we have units that are functioning to our expectations - hopefully that will coincide with a certain show in April.

The boards for Origo are coming in tomorrow so I expect to have a few units up and running by the evening. I'll see if we can snap some pics and put up a video. Ships by towards the end of March and Pricing is $110 for the switch w/mounting bracket. Cables separate. We expect the cables to come in around $75 for either the short, coiled, or long versions. We're working on getting some better pricing to bring the price down but its going to depend on the volumes... stay tuned. Keep an eye on our website for updates and the new web store :)

[Nils Ruinet]

This seems to be a fantastic system, at an amazing price.

Will it be able to interface also with the birger mount for focus and iris ?

Nils.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Thanks Curt, just a little more clarification......

The Impero Pro is a modular system? In other words i'll need an Impero Micro FF to snap into the Pro controller sort of like a C-Motion snap on system?

[Andrew McCarrick]

Here's a VERY old render of the pro version (http://viewfactor.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11.0;attach=27;ima ge)... notice the rough form factor of the impero standard turned sideways. We are looking into some fairly awesome displays and are toying around with the idea of getting the video feed off the camera on the pro as well. This is all in flux but we should an architecture in place before we start taking orders on the Impero Standard.

I've read through most of the thread, so if somebody has asked this after page 11 sorry.... but does that mean if I get the Pro.... it basically has the Standard and the Micro included (to create the Pro)? From your diagrams, I'm getting the impression that the micro would be inserted into the Standard base to make a functioning Standard, and then the Standard would be inserted into the Pro base to make a functioning Pro. (Sort of like the SI-2k Mini into the SI-2k body.)

Am I off there or is that the case?

[Alexander Nikishin]

Sorry to nag you Curt but could you clarify on my post above?

[adapmal]

HI Curt,

Your products sound fantastic. Could you please tell us more about your super grip? I'd love to see an Impero with 3 separate channels: 1 FF knob, 1 iris slider and 1 grip zoom controler, something like the Preston FIZ would be great. Also, the zoom grip should be able to go on HH config, like the Oppenheimer bracket or be rosette compatible. What do you think?

ching

[CVB]

This seems to be a fantastic system, at an amazing price.Will it be able to interface also with the birger mount for focus and iris ?
Nils. We're working on that.


Thanks Curt, just a little more clarification......The Impero Pro is a modular system? In other words i'll need an Impero Micro FF to snap into the Pro controller sort of like a C-Motion snap on system? Yes, only better ;)


I've read through most of the thread, so if somebody has asked this after page 11 sorry.... but does that mean if I get the Pro.... it basically has the Standard and the Micro included (to create the Pro)? From your diagrams, I'm getting the impression that the micro would be inserted into the Standard base to make a functioning Standard, and then the Standard would be inserted into the Pro base to make a functioning Pro. (Sort of like the SI-2k Mini into the SI-2k body.)

Am I off there or is that the case? The system is modular but the pro is not all inclusive of the other two... ie treat these like they are upgrades to one another rather than individual products. So you'd buy a micro, standard and pro to get the system with all the bells and whistles. If you add the estimated costs the top of the line system would run less than $2400.. as compared to a $24K system from C-motion thats not too bad.


HI Curt,

Your products sound fantastic. Could you please tell us more about your super grip? I'd love to see a Impero with separate 3 channels controlers: 1 FF knob, 1 iris slider and 1 grip zoom controler, something like the Preston FIZ would be great. Also, the zoom grip should be able to go on HH config, like the Oppheimer bracket or be rosetta compatible. What do you think?

ching Supergrip is TBD... the camera needs to mature before that shows up. The Impero pro render that I posted is very old... the new will be much cleaner and have multiple inputs (microforce zoom, slider, and knob). We may make something similar to the supergrip but not necessarily with all the camera interaction.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

We will be taking orders on Impero standard as soon as we have units that are functioning to our expectations - hopefully that will coincide with a certain show in April.

Hi,

Can you please take some of us in consideration (the ones that's been begging for you systems from more or less day one), us that can't go to NAB to have some kind of possible way of ordering it as well. :waaa:

Thanks,


fred

[Scott Webster]

Any chance of a flow chart of the products so I can get a visual picture of how everything interfaces?

[Shawn Nelson]

Okay, so I just read all 15 pages of the thread! I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating the Impero Std and Pro. Both are wireless right? So one of them has an LCD that shows me...stuff? It'd be helpful to have a bullet list of std vs pro. It'd be helpful to only put down 10% to reserve one. I don't have $2k now, but would by the time you ship the pro.

[Scott Webster]

Okay, so I just read all 15 pages of the thread! I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating the Impero Std and Pro. Both are wireless right? So one of them has an LCD that shows me...stuff? It'd be helpful to have a bullet list of std vs pro. It'd be helpful to only put down 10% to reserve one. I don't have $2k now, but would by the time you ship the pro.


Wireless option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Standard and comm cable: $750

Total: $1650

Does adding the wireless hand controller make this the Pro?

[John V]

Here it is for those who have not read Curts posts:

Impero Micro...the wired solution also part of the standard and pro versions.
Impero Standard....click in the micro and you have a simple wireless solution.
Impero Pro...click in micro and you have a full featured wireless solution. Saves focus pulls, lens data, removes lens breathing, just about everything C-motion, preston, and bartech do.

So to have a Impero Pro purchase micro insert in pro unit. All the information regarding how the system interfaces with itself will be up in a week. Prices and approximate dates will be up on our site soon. I am currently working on it. Rest assured you will not be disappointed. Curt has and is working 16-18 or more hours per day getting the numbers together.

[tj williams]

JB Looking at the video it appears that if you unplug the motor fm the controller and move the controller and replug that the motor does not jump to the new controller position?

then when we unplug the controller marks on the disk are lost? we must remark the lens?

TJ

[CVB]

Guys, I'm trying my best to answer questions but its sucking up a lot of time. I'll put together a flow chart and options list for all this stuff and have it on the website soon. I'll try my best to make it super clear.

TJ.. in the current design that does happen. We are working on it.. I'll get back to you when we have it solved.

[Rick Darge]

Curt

When can we put a deposit down?

[CVB]

Hopefully this week. If not then very early next week. This web store is taking awhile to get setup and I definitely don't want to go the paper route again for pre-orders.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I'm starting to feel less and less frustrated about having had to delay delivery of my cameras, as now I see a all bounch of great stuff about to be come available.

So can't wait for getting in to it as this great stuff becomes available.

God job guys, keep it up!


Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Rick Darge]

Ketch, glad to see that you were able to sell one of your babies off

Can't wait to see what you shoot with your Red

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ketch, glad to see that you were able to sell one of your babies off

Can't wait to see what you shoot with your Red



Thanks rgdfilms!

But the camera has not as yet sold as no money has been exchanged as yet, and it could be likely that such a deal will not take place after all, do to few of the RED restrictions, and few of my own!

But one thing for sure, my babies are finally about to come home one way or an other, that I can guarantee!


Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Zach Hilton]

Hopefully this week. If not then very early next week. This web store is taking awhile to get setup and I definitely don't want to go the paper route again for pre-orders.
What's the word on the street for pre-ordering?

[John V]

Curt has been in Hanover, Germany for Cebit for the past week. He will be back in the next few days. We expect to get the ordering system up within the next week depending on the schedule he gives me.

[Zach Hilton]

Curt has been in Hanover, Germany for Cebit for the past week. He will be back in the next few days. We expect to get the ordering system up within the next week depending on the schedule he gives me.

Alright! Thanks for answering la pregunta.

[Adrian T.]

Curt, please take into consideration that the INCLINO mount will be low profile.

As you can see on the following picture, the RED universal mount is too high to pass over an OConnor mount when using the ET bridge plate on a ET dovetail plate (green line marks the problem area).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/673_1204925954.jpg

The mount of the ET bridge plate (right below the front of the camera) is way smaller.

The space between the rods and the silver lever of the OConnor head is approximately 13 mm. So please try to make your mount smaller than that. :biggrin:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/673_1204999172.jpg

[John V]

Just a quick comment regarding the mount. The Inclino can also be mounted to the top bars if there is no room under because of obstructions. Also the mount is rotatable meaning it can be turned to clear. Just my view but I am sure Curt will take your comments into consideration.

[Adrian T.]

Just a quick comment regarding the mount. The Inclino can also be mounted to the top bars if there is no room under because of obstructions. Also the mount is rotatable meaning it can be turned to clear. Just my view but I am sure Curt will take your comments into consideration.

Thanks. I can see that there will be a lot of mounting possibilities. But anyway, it would be great to have a low profile mount. :whistling:

[John V]

Agreed...we will see what we can do...might be an option down the road to change out the mount. At this point things are already moving so we will see what can can do.

[James T Mather]

Hi guys - I have a question having trawled through the entire thread with no answer -

What bars does this thing connect to (15mm or 19mm)

Thanks

[Matthew Rogers]

Hi guys - I have a question having trawled through the entire thread with no answer -

What bars does this thing connect to (15mm or 19mm)

My understanding is that it doesn't matter! Right now the motor only has to hook onto one bar (like the Arri lightweight ff unit.) There was talk of putting it on a 15mm or 19mm two bar system so it would be harder to have the motor come off the lens.

Matthew

[Curran Giddens]

Hi guys - I have a question having trawled through the entire thread with no answer -

What bars does this thing connect to (15mm or 19mm)

Thanks

I think it will work with both. Curt said it comes with a 19mm to 15mm adapter.

http://viewfactor.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26.0;attach=69;ima ge

More info here:
http://viewfactor.net/forum/index.php?topic=26.0

[John V]

Will work with both...we will try to have the adapter at NAB. We didnt forget the 15mm guys

[CVB]

Curt, please take into consideration that the INCLINO mount will be low profile.

As you can see on the following picture, the RED universal mount is too high to pass over an OConnor mount when using the ET bridge plate on a ET dovetail plate (green line marks the problem area).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/673_1204925954.jpg

The mount of the ET bridge plate (right below the front of the camera) is way smaller.

The space between the rods and the silver lever of the OConnor head is approximately 13 mm. So please try to make your mount smaller than that. :biggrin:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/673_1204999172.jpg
That dimension you were asking about is 12mm...

-Curt

[Adrian T.]

That dimension you were asking about is 12mm...

-Curt

Great! That should work perfectly. Thanks, Curt! :biggrin:

[Gunleik Groven]

Hi Curt

What's the status of your FF?

Gunleik

[NormLi]

It's so loud though...you can hear the motor? Will this be silent once released?

[Matthew Rogers]

Curt has already stated that the motor in the video was louder than the final motor will be.

Matthew

[John V]

Motor in the video is a prototype. The production version will be as quiet as ARRI and require no gear adjustment over time.

[NormLi]

Oh wow.. that's awesome. Sorry.

[Andrew McCarrick]

Got a question.... could I use this Follow Focus on another camera? It would seem like the mounting, ect. wouldn't be a problem but what about power? Could I use a D-Tap from a Gold Mount AB or some other battery, or no?

[Damien Molineaux]

Dear von Badinski bros,

Thank you for making a revolutionary product to go along with my revolutionary camera, I look forward to usinig them together !

In my opinion, the highlight of your product is the fact you can adjust the focus range, and make it longer than it is on the lens, ideal for using still lenses. However, how does that work with lenses that don't have a hard stop when you turn the focus ring ? For example the magnificent Nikon 17-35mm zoom.

Cheers,
Damien

[CVB]

Got a question.... could I use this Follow Focus on another camera? It would seem like the mounting, ect. wouldn't be a problem but what about power? Could I use a D-Tap from a Gold Mount AB or some other battery, or no? It will work on any camera. We have onboard voltage regulation so you can put 12 to 24 volts into the unit. DTAP cables will be an option if you don't have a red camera.


In my opinion, the highlight of your product is the fact you can adjust the focus range, and make it longer than it is on the lens, ideal for using still lenses. However, how does that work with lenses that don't have a hard stop when you turn the focus ring ? For example the magnificent Nikon 17-35mm zoom.
Not a problem. If you press and hold the lens gearing button it will override the requirement for calibrating the lens... then you just move the knob to tell the system where the two limits should be.

[Gunleik Groven]

Visited your website today to put down a deposit, but no luck...

Will you be making a mattebox, too?

What is the price of your motorised head?

Cheers!

Gunleik

[JVB]

We will take deposits this week for the INCLINO™ and ORIGO™....the Price of MIRUS™ is 15,900 USD

[Koa M. Stone]

Please keep me posted too, it's hard to keep track of your products here on reduser...

Great stuff, look forward to it.

[CVB]

We're tweaking our website to have info on all the products on the main site... we're also setting up separate store to purchase stuff. It should be pretty cool, Johns been working hard on it.

[A. Kwan]

Curt
Will the Pro wireless FF units have Remote record on/off switch for jib or steadicam work?

[CVB]

Yes. The standard and pro will both have a record start/stop switch.

[CVB]

As promised here is the diagram that shows a few configurations of the Inclino motors and Impero remote. After talking to hundreds of people it was becoming apparent that everyone wanted to skip the low cost wired remote and hold out for the wireless.... so we've decided to make our first offering have wired and wireless operation.

[Ken K]

This is just pure genius and a thing of beauty. Thank you so much for building it and giving it to us at such an awesome price! :biggrin: I honestly cannot wait to throw money your direction for this thing. You guys rock.

[Koa M. Stone]

Beautiful. Definitely xless. Where's the buy now button?? :biggrin:

[Volker Ehlers]

Hi all,

I am still concerned about the size of the handwheel and scales.
It LOOKS SMALLish and might have to becomes BIGGER!!!

This was mentioned a couple of times but I can't find any confirmation here or elsewhere. The travel on larger zoom or prime barrels is such that you couldn't translate them onto your FF scale without "closing the circle" and having doubled up marks on them - meaning you have to rotate the thing more than 360 degrees.

It would make SO MUCH sense to stick to an existing scale ring size so we could swap them from an ARRI FF onto View Factor's FF without having to mark up a second set/ size.

I know I am not saying anything new but I am not sure whether Curt & gang are actually taking this onboard.

I would also like to hear a comment on "noise levels" since the youtube demo is giving us an idea and is appreciated - but the motors are clearly audible.

If those concerns could be settled I would get pretty excited about a 3 axis control for a fraction of what others are asking for.

Best of luck and hope to see you at a trade show in Europe some stage this year?

[Larry McKee]

As promised here is the diagram that shows a few configurations of the Inclino motors and Impero remote. After talking to hundreds of people it was becoming apparent that everyone wanted to skip the low cost wired remote and hold out for the wireless.... so we've decided to make our first offering have wired and wireless operation.

Can I safely assume that we can still mount the focus knob on the rods in a conventional configuration?

[CVB]

I am still concerned about the size of the handwheel and scales. It LOOKS SMALLish and might have to becomes BIGGER!!! Like I said in a previous post.... it is bigger. See attached http://viewfactorstudios.com/prod_comparison.jpg (http://viewfactorstudios.com/prod_comparison.PDF)



This was mentioned a couple of times but I can't find any confirmation here or elsewhere. The travel on larger zoom or prime barrels is such that you couldn't translate them onto your FF scale without "closing the circle" and having doubled up marks on them - meaning you have to rotate the thing more than 360 degrees. We have digital gearing built into our systems so the knob range can be scaled to the lens travel... wrap around will never happen.



It would make SO MUCH sense to stick to an existing scale ring size so we could swap them from an ARRI FF onto View Factor's FF without having to mark up a second set/ size. ARRI marking rings cost about $20 USD each. Ours will be around $5. I agree that it would be nice to just plop on ARRI scale rings but our mockups looked WAY too big on the camera when you include the electronics housing with buttons.



I know I am not saying anything new but I am not sure whether Curt & gang are actually taking this onboard. We try to take all suggestions and criticism -in the end there are always trade offs between features and cost to the end customer.



I would also like to hear a comment on "noise levels" since the youtube demo is giving us an idea and is appreciated - but the motors are clearly audible. I know this is a long thread so I'll say it again.... the noise should not be an issue on shipping units.


Can I safely assume that we can still mount the focus knob on the rods in a conventional configuration? Yup.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

in the video the FF was really loud...did something changed...and will you offer a FF without a motor..

[CVB]

in the video the FF was really loud...did something changed...and will you offer a FF without a motor.. Yes, we changed the drive train lubrication from grease to oil to eliminate the noise generated from the harmonic drives. We also went with grease filled bearings instead of Oil - the oil filled Bearings were a significant source of noise on the last protos. We're optimistic that the changes will reduce the noise. Just so you guys know... this stuff isn't easy - thats why we've done over 5 prototype versions of the motors :)

So you want a manual FF? Hmm... let us ship what we have on our plate and then we'll take a look at it. We are really trying to make these motors quite enough to use as a replacement for a conventionall FF... there are a number of benefits to a Digital FF, mainly remote operation, infinite gearing possibilities, ZERO backlash etc...

[Cüneyt Kaya]

another question...will the FF have knobs on both sides? do i have to switch the knob to the other side?

And you are saving some asses with this FF.

[CVB]

Per everyones suggestions - yes we will have the ability to have a knob on the dumb side of the camera. Thats going to have to come out a bit after shipping but in the mean time you could just use a standard short focus whip - it will have a 12mm square connection on the back of the unit.

[Finner]

Good work Curt. Looking forward to getting some great use out of your equipment.

[Zach Hilton]

Just placed our order for the Inclino and Impero. We also added the 2.5 ft Red power cable and the 1 ft Bus cable. Just making sure that that's all we need to operate both wired and wireless? I noticed on the image earlier on this thread that there is a Impero receiver before the motor. Is that something that needs to be purchased or am I missing somewhere on the website? Thanks!

[Brian Kaz]

Just ordered. Can't wait!

[Joel Kaye]

Impero receiver before the motor. Is that something that needs to be purchased or am I missing somewhere on the website?

Impero receiver comes included with the Impero.

I spoke with Curt on the phone a little and here's some added info - Curt correct me if I blow it.

D-tap vs. RED power - You can get more power from a D-tap, so if you're powering more than one motor that would be better. T

The RED aux power cable is more convenient since it doesn't need to be disconnected on every battery change. Also - if you're running RED off A/C and want to get rid of the battery you can do that. BUT it won't provide as much power so it should be limited to single motor configurations.

[Zach Hilton]

Impero receiver comes included with the Impero.

I spoke with Curt on the phone a little and here's some added info - Curt correct me if I blow it.

D-tap vs. RED power - You can get more power from a D-tap, so if you're powering more than one motor that would be better. T

The RED aux power cable is more convenient since it doesn't need to be disconnected on every battery change. Also - if you're running RED off A/C and want to get rid of the battery you can do that. BUT it won't provide as much power so it should be limited to single motor configurations.

Thanks! That's what I needed to know. We're just doing one motor configs right now, so we'll be fine with the red power cable. Hopefully when we can afford the motor head we'll also upgrade and get more motors. We're just really excited to have a pretty dang cheap FF and have it be wireless. Thanks guys!

[CVB]

Impero receiver comes included with the Impero.

I spoke with Curt on the phone a little and here's some added info - Curt correct me if I blow it.

D-tap vs. RED power - You can get more power from a D-tap, so if you're powering more than one motor that would be better. T

The RED aux power cable is more convenient since it doesn't need to be disconnected on every battery change. Also - if you're running RED off A/C and want to get rid of the battery you can do that. BUT it won't provide as much power so it should be limited to single motor configurations. Close... the DTAP is mandatory if you are running any more than one motor.

[Tim Bradley]

Hi Curt,

I just ordered my Inclino DFF and Impero standard. Can you tell me is the wireless reciver part of this package ??

Cheers, Tim.

[CVB]

Hi Curt,

I just ordered my Inclino DFF and Impero standard. Can you tell me is the wireless reciver part of this package ??

Cheers, Tim. Yes, the wireless receiver is included with Impero.

[Hubert K]

Hi Curt
1) I want to use a 2,4 GHz analog-video transmitter. I am in Europe in a PAL country. Will there be any interferences with Impero ?

2) I could not find the Rec/Start/Stop button for camera control in the poster. Is it somewere on the back? And I assume, it will work only with Red power cable, not with DTAP Battery cable ?

3) What is the difference between Impero Standard and Pro? Can you post some details? I want to use 2 Inclinos and I am not sure wether I should order Standard or wait for Pro.

[CVB]

Hi Curt
1) I want to use a 2,4 GHz analog-video transmitter. I am in Europe in a PAL country. Will there be any interferences with Impero ?

2) I could not find the Rec/Start/Stop button for camera control in the poster. Is it somewere on the back? And I assume, it will work only with Red power cable, not with DTAP Battery cable ?

3) What is the difference between Impero Standard and Pro? Can you post some details? I want to use 2 Inclinos and I am not sure wether I should order Standard or wait for Pro.

1) Shouldn't be a problem but depending on the certifications of your transmitter it may interfere - we may have to investigate that and get back to you. The units use encrypted data so I don't foresee any potential for incorrect data but the units may be jammed if the video transmitter is not playing nice.

2) The Rec/Start/Stop button is on the side you cant see. We are tweaking the design up to the last minute with Impero as it is going to be CNC'd for the first batch (the volumes are pretty low compared to the motors). We'll probably tweak the button layout one more time before we ship, I really want everything front and center to avoid any confusion.

3) Impero standard is available in May, the pro will probably be in July or later. Its a much bigger endeavor than the standard so I can't really say when its going to be available. The Standard will control three motors but only one at a time. The pro will have separate controls that will allow you to do all three without using one input device (ie the knob). I'll post more info as it becomes available. There's more info on all this stuff in our forum on our website.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Curt. You've mentioned some kind of package deal at an earlier stage with three motors. Is that deal still available and how I can I change my existing order to this deal if still available?

[CVB]

The package deal is going to take a bit loner to get in place. We need to get the store functioning 100% then we'll go back and see if we can get that going. We'll try to get it squared away in the next week or so. We'll send out emails to everyone letting them know how to go about changing their orders. We'll also have the info on our webpage and forum. Thanks for baring with us...

[Tony Lorentzen]

You got it Curt. Take your time - I'm not getting my camera until mid-May (I hope) :-)

[Hubert K]

[QUOTE=CVB;180982]1) Shouldn't be a problem but depending on the certifications of your transmitter it may interfere - we may have to investigate that and get back to you. The units use encrypted data so I don't foresee any potential for incorrect data but the units may be jammed if the video transmitter is not playing nice.

Hi Curt

I want to use this unit
http://shop.vtq.de/product_info.php?info=p92_HO-OEM-Sender-80mW-br--2-4GHz--5-K--80mW--Export-.html
It is 2,4 - 2,4835 GHz and it is analog and is not encrypted, so maybe Impero will rather jam the video transmitter. Please investigate that and thanks for clarification.

Hubert

[CVB]

Hubert, I'll do a little investigative work on this... in the end I may just have to do a little testing. Ideally it shouldn't be a problem based off their frequency description but you never know... EMI is a black art sometimes.

[Brandon Fraley]

A couple options...

Wired option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Micro w/mounting bracket and comm cable: $350

Total: $1250

Wireless option:

Inclino Motor with power cable: $900

Impero Standard and comm cable: $750

Total: $1650

Taking orders Week of Feb 25th, Starts shipping End of April 2008. The wireless impero standard will lag by about a month so the second option won't be available until the end of May.

sry i haven't read through all the pages, but is the cheaper impero micro still an option? and whats the difference?

[Dominic Cochran]

sry i haven't read through all the pages, but is the cheaper impero micro still an option? and whats the difference?

No, Impero Standard and Pro only. They wanted to simplify the product line and get units out the door. Which was a good call IMO.

[Brandon Fraley]

thanks. by chance does anyone here know anything about redrock's option? I can't find any info about it?

[Dominic Cochran]

On their forum Brian Valente says they are still working on a wireless solution, but has no date info yet. Looks like they're focusing on the mattebox for now.