Hey, Jim, Can you throw us a bone? [Archive]

combatentropy

02-18-2008, 08:09 PM

Jim,

Are you really going to leave us without any further information until April? We're about to chew off somebody's limb -- maybe even one of our own.

I have had enough of the "4K" - "No, 2K" - "No, 4K" and "35mm" - "No, 16mm" - "No, 35mm" arguing.

Could you speak to any of these topics:

1. Sensor size?
2. Sensor resolution?
3. Camera size? Just what kind of "pocket" are you talking about?
4. Estimated shipping date?

At least it would give us something new to chew on, besides ourselves.

killfilm

02-18-2008, 08:22 PM

Ravell

02-18-2008, 09:56 PM

It's Red's site so they can do whatever they please but it's more than a little bizarre that they would create this forum with absolutely no purpose except for miles of speculation.

Only Red input I've seen regarding the Scarlet forum is Jim, Jarred and Deanan posting to the effect of "ha, ha, you guys are so far off." So yeah, throw us a bone already! :)

krwl

02-18-2008, 10:16 PM

Well, since speculation often translates into personalized pipe dreams - where people go on and on about how they want "their Scarlet" with features yet not seen. I would say that this forum would not be a good marketing pitchl; unless the newcomer really raises the bar and surpasses most people's expectations.

Can you imagine this thing being equal to a Handycam plastic toaster? Of course not. In other words - through the justification of this sub-forum - it better be good!

redman

02-18-2008, 10:28 PM

Ha, I know all about scarlet! UM, I don't think I was supposed to say that.

John Godden

02-18-2008, 10:40 PM

killfilm

02-19-2008, 06:40 AM

I've scanned a couple of threads on Scarlet and come away somewhat bewildered by the inane requests. Time to give it a rest folks.

NAB will be be here soon enough. That's when you'll get your dreams answered or dashed.

JohnG

It takes more than a camera to realize a dream, a camera is one tool that one uses to realize that dream. This is a business, if everyone is happy with the scarlet then business will be busy. We all respect what Red has done to the industry. You got to pay to play, Jim and the Red team may help us get there.
Red is revolution and scarlet will be too.

Radoslav Karapetkov

02-19-2008, 06:59 AM

He won't.

Graeme Nattress

02-19-2008, 07:02 AM

I said it before with RED One, and I'll say it again with Scarlet - you don't open your xmas presents early as it spoils the surprise!

Graeme

Paul Hazlett

02-19-2008, 07:35 AM

I said it before with RED One, and I'll say it again with Scarlet - you don't open your xmas presents early as it spoils the surprise!

Graeme

Now thats funny, I don't care who you are thats funny

Andrew M.

02-19-2008, 08:27 AM

But at least we can see the color of the box and size of it?

laguun

02-19-2008, 08:30 AM

I said it before with RED One, and I'll say it again with Scarlet - you don't open your xmas presents early as it spoils the surprise!

Graeme

i think red should develop a time traveling machine, i could see a market for that device.

Ameer Azari

02-19-2008, 12:13 PM

what's cool is that they still seem positive, so non of our speculation has made them think...Ahh crap, they're expecting something way better than what we've made!

YAY!!

Ameer

killfilm

02-19-2008, 05:08 PM

I said it before with RED One, and I'll say it again with Scarlet - you don't open your xmas presents early as it spoils the surprise!

Graeme

hey Graeme, not all of us celebrate christmas, but thats not the point.
Opening gifts early is not good, but what the heck is in the box. I've been a good boy!

Jeremy Hughes

02-19-2008, 05:33 PM

But at least we can see the color of the box and size of it?

Exactly, and to who it's for.

And usually you won't get a present that says, you'll get your present in a few months. Hey, when you open your present, it's yours right away, you don't have to wait untill next year to use it. And you get to use it the day you know what it is.

killfilm

02-19-2008, 06:03 PM

I'm doing a scientific experiment in which i need the dimensions of the box so i can calculate the size of the pocket. Any help would be appreciated:w00t:

Mike Bozulich

02-19-2008, 07:14 PM

Scarlet. Our Pocket Professional camera.

We know that the name has leaked out, so we want to avoid any postings and speculation.

Prototypes will be shown at NAB. It is not a competitor or replacement for the RED ONE.

Yes, that's the quote from Jim that set all this off.

What cracks me up is this Scarlet section of the forum pretty much only about speculation at this point. Without any further details how could it be anything more? All I can say is making an announcement with so few details and then letting it percolate for months will likely build expectations beyond the reasonable and result in disappointment. Of course, I hope I'm wrong.

killfilm

02-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Yes, that's the quote from Jim that set all this off.

What cracks me up is this Scarlet section of the forum pretty much only about speculation at this point. Without any further details how could it be anything more? All I can say is making an announcement with so few details and then letting it percolate for months will likely build expectations beyond the reasonable and result in disappointment. Of course, I hope I'm wrong.

we hope your wrong too. But Jim does not follow the "standards" of the industry either

and also remember how Red mentions that features and specifications "may" change at any time. So dont hold Jim on a few words, he may change them for the "better". History showed us that he's a man of his words, and all the skeptics who thought "Red" was a scam, probably feel like idiots when the Red was released. Jim knows what he's doing and cares for the user needs. He's a smart business man and a humble fella too, unlike the "others" who sell you a product then offer litttle or no support from behind the scenes.

combatentropy

02-19-2008, 10:01 PM

Difference from Christmas (as already touched on): Christmas presents do not start appearing under tree in October. And this NAB thing is gonna be more like finally unwrapping a photograph of your gift.

And this is not the same thing as Steve Jobs at Macworld every year either. He lets rumors arise as they may, but he himself says nothing until the day of. Rumors are a lot easier to ignore than official hints.

Red is not bound by any planned detail they reveal. But just knowing one or two clarifications about they're considering would be nice.

Graeme Nattress

02-20-2008, 03:45 AM

hey Graeme, not all of us celebrate christmas, but thats not the point.
Opening gifts early is not good, but what the heck is in the box. I've been a good boy!

I'm a Winter Solstice guy myself, but the point is presents opened early are no longer surprises on the appointed day. I have no idea when you will be able to buy Scarlet - I picked xmas as it's a very well known day to get presents that children want to peek at early.

It reminds me of the joke: How does Darth Vader know what he's getting for xmas? He felt his presents.

Graeme

David Birdy

02-20-2008, 05:36 AM

Good One Graeme!

I see your up early...I guess it's too soon to expect you new daughter to sleep all Night!

I hope the family & new baby are all doing well! I'll hope to see baby pictures when I meet you at the NAB!

Dave

Graeme Nattress

02-20-2008, 06:48 AM

It's 1st daughter who woke early.... They have no concept of sleeping-in at that age... "wake up Daddy!" as she pulls your eyelids open.

Graeme

Craig Bowman

02-20-2008, 07:20 AM

I'm far more interested in information on the development of the 4k displays and projectors that were part of Jim's big announcement blurb last year. Jim has already indicated Scarlet is a pocket camera for form factor and in no way matches Red's features or capabilities.

Greg Syverson

02-20-2008, 09:46 AM

I had the money... cash to buy a nice camera. With all this frustration of what is scarlet, should I get a Sony or perhaps Pany. I know Red is a (RED HOT DEAL) but it is overkill for what I am doing right now. The EX-1 is a good choice for size and battery life. This would work great in my remote extended travels. The down fall it is not the quality footage in HD I would like. I am stuck. Today I took all that money and paid off my credit cards. Now I am debt free!!!!!!

It feels good. The nice thing is in April my bonus + income tax should get me back into the game again for a camera. Lets see what Scarlet is all about and then make the choice

laguun

02-20-2008, 04:25 PM

It's 1st daughter who woke early.... They have no concept of sleeping-in at that age... "wake up Daddy!" as she pulls your eyelids open.

Graeme

cats can be even more cruel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmwqpHsMExg

Mike Bozulich

02-20-2008, 05:20 PM

At this point I would be happy with a few details (clarifications?) on what the Scarlet is NOT....

As in, it does not do 4K, 200fps, or have interchangable lenses; just to get expectations somewhere in the realm of reality. At least with a Xmas present I can see the size and shape of the box and say 'that's definitely not a pogo stick!' :)

killfilm

02-20-2008, 06:31 PM

I've been thinking a lot and came to this conclusion

-Scarlet will not compete with Red so forget 4k
-Forget interchangable lenses
-Max of 2k res
-A fixed lens
-Maybe upgradable-rendering obsolence obsolute
-will intercut nicely with the Red

Many Red users will whine if scarlet competes with their toys, and wont play nicely with others. They'll have relief knowing they have something better than scarlet. Nonetheless, scarlet will have its own market. But its very important that its upgradable through hardware, this would be a big plus as users want a good investment.

Visceral_IvaN

02-20-2008, 07:26 PM

Jim,

Are you really going to leave us without any further information until April? We're about to chew off somebody's limb -- maybe even one of our own.

And perhaps now should be the time when we take a moment and reflect on how absolutely brilliant RED's marketing tactics are.

:)

killfilm

02-20-2008, 07:36 PM

And perhaps now should be the time when we take a moment and reflect on how absolutely brilliant RED's marketing tactics are.

:)

What? what tactics?

So when will we see some pictures or a teaser:nerd:

Visceral_IvaN

02-20-2008, 07:54 PM

What? what tactics?

So when will we see some pictures or a teaser:nerd:

:tongue:

Ameer Azari

02-21-2008, 07:53 AM

RED are gonna make a killing with the Scarlet!!
look how much chatter there is about it, and they haven't even given us any specs!

I don't know about you guys but, if it's under $8,000 I'M GETTING ONE!!!!
hopefully, a good fixed lens, so I can purchase some other stuff...

Mike Bozulich

02-21-2008, 04:53 PM

I don't know about you guys but, if it's under $8,000 I'M GETTING ONE!!!!

It's these kind of statements that crack me up. No specs whatsoever, yet commitment to buy. What if it's a 1/2" sensor with a fixed lens that does HD res for $7999... would you still buy then? At that point there are several contenders from Sony and Panasonic in the mix.

I eagerly await the specs; and if it kicks as much a$$ as the Red does at a price point that I can afford, then I'm definitely in.

Davis

02-21-2008, 05:28 PM

unless it has a removable lens I don't see what any excitement would be about. People want REMOVABLE lenses. That is one of the main drawing points to RED one.

Mark A. Beal

02-21-2008, 07:13 PM

unless it has a removable lens I don't see what any excitement would be about. People want REMOVABLE lenses. That is one of the main drawing points to RED one.

Actually, many of us are neutral concerning removable lenses. I for one would LIKE a removable lens mount, but it's not a dealbreaker. I'm much more interested in 35mm depth of field without the Rube Goldberg adapters that are simply too cumbersome for the way I work. I'm also interested in Redcode Raw and compact flash recording, but I think those are going to be a givens.

John Godden

02-21-2008, 11:33 PM

unless it has a removable lens I don't see what any excitement would be about. People want REMOVABLE lenses. That is one of the main drawing points to RED one.

Huh? ............... I just can't agree with those statements at all. A "pocket cam" by definition will very likely NOT have removable lenses.

JohnG

Jason Wingrove

02-22-2008, 06:36 AM

2K
Nikon F mount
2/3"
8min per 8gb cf
36fps (50fps 720p)
3.5" LCD no EVF
$4,250

just a stab in the dark....:whistling:

Ameer Azari

02-23-2008, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ameer Ally
I don't know about you guys but, if it's under $8,000 I'M GETTING ONE!!!!
It's these kind of statements that crack me up. No specs whatsoever, yet commitment to buy. What if it's a 1/2" sensor with a fixed lens that does HD res for $7999... would you still buy then? At that point there are several contenders from Sony and Panasonic in the mix.

I eagerly await the specs; and if it kicks as much a$$ as the Red does at a price point that I can afford, then I'm definitely in.

It's already been confirmed that Scarlet shoots 2K as Jim has registered "Scarlet 2K". Everyone knows it'll have 23.whatever, 24P, etc. etc.

and if it's put at a competitive price compared to Sony's EX-1, then I see no reason why I wouldn't buy it. With such expectations it's easy to assume that RED have created something cool, and low priced for what it is.

Andrew Madu

02-23-2008, 02:55 AM

and if it's put at a competitive price compared to Sony's EX-1

Ah yes, it would definitely need to cause this bad boy some trouble. Being able to ingest red storage medium into your PC via ExpressCard, as opposed to firewire, would also be very nice.

Eugene

02-23-2008, 01:07 PM

unless it has a removable lens I don't see what any excitement would be about. People want REMOVABLE lenses. That is one of the main drawing points to RED one.

Yeah, the Red One. It's one of the One's main drawing points.
We ain't talking bout da One here. We talking bout da Scarlet.

I don't know how to use big words like gestalt, but the look of Scarlet should be like that of the JVC Everio. http://www.adorama.com/JVGZHD7US.html
It has a non-removable zoom lens. (I know the JVC is consumer grade.)
What fool asks for a pocket cam only to put a big ass pro ENG lens on it. That doesn't make sense. If you want it in C-mount, etc. and you are only going to put a 50mm (equivalent) prime lens on it, that woulld make sense.
Changing lenses is a pain and lets dust in. What is the point of having a pocket cam, if you also have to carry aroung a bag with a set of primes. I don't care about breathing or any of that other stuff. Sacrafice some things for size. Scarlet is like the Mac Book Air: smaller and less powerful than its big sis. OK, that is the end of my rant.

Matt Gottshalk

02-23-2008, 02:30 PM

unless it has a removable lens I don't see what any excitement would be about. People want REMOVABLE lenses. That is one of the main drawing points to RED one.

1. It ISN'T a RED one.

2. 95% of the people who bought xl1s or XH1s NEVER took their lenses off.

redman

02-23-2008, 03:36 PM

Right, but if you really want to have a fixed lens and still be able to fit it in a pant pocket, then its going to be a piece of crap, like an hv20's lens. Having a removable lens mount would allow you to obviously have access to professional lenses and still fit it in your pocket when the lens is removed. Besides, didn't Jim say that he wouldn't associate a fixed lens with the word "professional". Anyway, we could all be talking about different pockets.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/22266/1203809365.jpg

ColinSmith

02-23-2008, 03:37 PM

Because a usable lens was expensive?
Could be different if you have one of the more accessible slr mounts for sure.

killfilm

02-23-2008, 04:30 PM

Lets take into consideration that scarlet is clearly labeled as a
"professional" camera.

you decide: is a fixed lens professional? is hand held home camera style camera professional?

Jason Wingrove

02-23-2008, 04:38 PM

And its just the camera that fits in the pocket, no one said it would do so with a lens on it. :sarcasm:
Who walks around with any kind of decent video camera in their pocket anyway, so since when is that a real drawcard?
just like who is really going to carry the Macbook Air around in a legal envelope?

"pocket cam" is more a description than a specific design, Unless Jim gets on stage like Steve J and pulls a scarlett out of his pants like mary poppins :)

is that a scarlet in your pocket or....

Jason Wingrove

02-23-2008, 04:40 PM

You could fit a Canon Rebel or Nikon D40 body in your pocket?
Maybe its a 1080p DSLR body (only needs to be 2 mega pixel @ 24/25fps)

killfilm

02-23-2008, 04:41 PM

maybe its not a regular sized pocket but a clown's one:clown2:

arun

02-23-2008, 09:29 PM

jim once again the same request dont make it too small plz... we have hope it will perfect for indifilm makers minimum 5 pounds weight
thanks..... arun...

RicanJoe

02-23-2008, 09:55 PM

jim once again the same request dont make it too small plz... we have hope it will perfect for indifilm makers minimum 5 pounds weight
thanks..... arun...
A 5 pound pocket cam... thats kinda heavy no?.

killfilm

02-23-2008, 10:20 PM

why do people take pocket to be literal. maybe it is literal (hope not) but in the sticky it states "we dont know how big the pockets are"

no one really wants to operate a "professional" cam the size of a handy cam when a client is over your shoulders.

Jason Wingrove

02-24-2008, 01:25 AM

NAB is just round the corner... whatever its going to be has already been decided!

killfilm

02-26-2008, 06:24 PM

NAB is just round the corner... whatever its going to be has already been decided!

not exactly, like Red usually states "specs can change anytime"

Mike Bozulich

02-28-2008, 10:24 PM

I guess it depends on what will actually be announced at NAB. Will there be a working prototype, just some mock-ups, or a camera virtually ready to ship? Six more weeks and counting!

Yannick Hagman

02-29-2008, 03:45 AM

Don't expect more than a prototype or even a shell of the housing and some specs at NAB. They can't do magic.

killfilm

02-29-2008, 06:04 AM

Don't expect more than a prototype or even a shell of the housing and some specs at NAB. They can't do magic.

actually Graeme mentioned something about a box he was looking at.

Gene Crucean

03-02-2008, 09:50 AM

2. 95% of the people who bought xl1s or XH1s NEVER took their lenses off.

Maybe true. But 100% of those exact same users couldn't stick any one of the billion Nikon lenses on it.

Jason Wingrove

03-02-2008, 03:40 PM

im sure size, lens mount or fixed etc has already been locked in

red i wanabe

03-07-2008, 07:18 AM

I'm in even if it is 10 grand, weighs 25 pounds, does 1080, and it can be as big as it want's to be.:ohmy:

red i wanabe

03-07-2008, 07:19 AM

got to have some variable frame rates.:sorcerer:

gsellis

03-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Sigh... The nose on our faces, we see it not.

Fiction Flashback Time (this is my guess and has very little basis in fact):

Some "Mysterious" guy wants to sell his new chip, but the big camera mfgrs look at him funny. He reads about this venture capitalist running this hip company who owns one of everything Canon makes that goes 'click'... "Hi Jim, I hear that you might like video too, I have this chip..."

Later, this guy, Jim, is leaning back in his chair look at what has become after weeks and weeks of months at a time. "I need a break to go shoot, but I sure like this video stuff now. Wish I could take one of those in my backpack I use on vacation for my Canon. HEY GUYS! I want to take a RED on vacation!"

So, the answer is: The pocket is Jim's (need to pop over to Oakley and see if they sell khakis and what the pockets look like). It will have changeable lens and work with Canon AF lens (that way he can take his still and 2k on vacation in the same pack). It will have a really cool snap-on for a shotgun mic so it will fit in the side of the pocket of the backpack.

Scarlet - the revolution continues

;)

Shawn Nelson

03-13-2008, 10:30 PM

Why the heck was this Scarlet forum created? It frustrates me. They don't want to throw us a bone. Fine. Then no subforums that I visit expecting something. Sheesh.

albert rudnicki

03-13-2008, 11:15 PM

Shawn; that's why I try to avoid this forum as much a I can:)

arun

03-14-2008, 02:58 AM

its nt a small pocket ahahah

arun

03-14-2008, 03:00 AM

is that really shocking Graeme? wel let us wait and see

Jointski

03-14-2008, 02:24 PM

Okay, don't ask me how I know. But here is what I was told about Scarlet:

1. 2K res
2. No lens on base camera but interchangeable possible
3. Sub 10K price think $8,999.00
4. No variable frame rate
5. 24P
6. Audio recording
7. Same size chip as Red 1

Jarred Land

03-14-2008, 11:26 PM

Nab....

Craig W. Bickerstaff

03-14-2008, 11:48 PM

Nab....

nab.... it's... Not a Banana?! I've cracked the code!

Michael Ragen

03-14-2008, 11:50 PM

Hey jointski, that's pretty much what i've been predicting.

Zak Forsman

03-15-2008, 01:55 AM

Eric.T

03-15-2008, 11:01 AM

Bing Bailey

03-15-2008, 06:20 PM

no variable frame rate makes no sense. even the EX1 now supports that and the hvx200. that would be a backward step. $8,999 seems a little high too for no lens. so to get a functional camera its going to cost $16k with lens. at that point you might as well go buy a RED ONE

combatentropy

03-16-2008, 01:46 PM

darkkelt, I just read your bio:

Bing Bailey - Producer and Director. Bing’s misspent years as an IT professional fell into sharp focus when his World Trade Center workplace collapsed on Sept 11, 2001. Fortunately Bing was running late that morning but the Sept. 11 tragedy gave him the courage to pursue his dream of being a filmmaker.

That's quite a story.

Michael Brennan

03-17-2008, 12:21 PM

When I first heard JJ was moving into motion picture cameras I suggested that he would build the RED brand that could then be used to sell cheap consumer or semi pro cams to a large but niche market, possibly even alongside his shades.
Selling Oakley torpedoed half of that theory, but the concept of leveraging a pro brand into consumer market is sound.

Imagine the appeal of a digital still camera with the "Panavision" badge

Im not saying scarlet is a point and shoot still camera that can do 24fps..

Mike Brennan