Evf

[Pol Turrents]

Since the Viewfinder is much better than an accuscene (As Jim said in another thread), will it be useable in another cameras, like a Sony F900? If so, for that price you will be selling MUCH more viewfinders than cameras
And viceversa, will it be the regular accuscene useable with the red one?

[Andrew M.]

Since the Viewfinder is much better than an accuscene (As Jim said in another thread), will it be useable in another cameras, like a Sony F900? If so, for that price you will be selling MUCH more viewfinders than cameras
And viceversa, will it be the regular accuscene useable with the red one?

And what is the resolution of EVF? - 720p?

[Paul Hazlett]

has anyone said whether this was a color or B&W viewfinder.

[Mark L. Pederson]

It sure would be cool if you could "select" any 1280 x 720 SECTION of the sensor and view that to focus on them 4K pixels ....

[Graeme Nattress]

It's a colour 720p viewfinder.

Graeme

[Pol Turrents]

It's a colour 720p viewfinder.

Graeme

So.... it should be useable with other broadcast cameras?

[Graeme Nattress]

I honestly don't know that.

Graeme

[Brook Willard]

I personally doubt it. Because the EVF has RED-specific controls on it, I imagine it's a proprietary connector.

[Alexander Nikishin]

So.... it should be useable with other broadcast cameras?

Depends on the connector I'd imagine?

[Paul Hazlett]

I doubt it will work with other cameras. There are certain pin configs that each use with a special plug. Someone would have to make a sony to red
evf adapter for example.

[Stuart English]

Perhaps for the first time on a professional camera, the RED-EVF has been designed from the perspective of an integrated monitoring component, rather than a stand alone device. Although it uses a broadcast standard Hirose connector, its has a custom digital interface based around DVI, which allows advanced signal processing in the camera body, and a high level of communications between camera and viewfinder.

The RED-EVF can't be used with other cameras. Its simply the worlds highest performance electronic viewfinder, specific to the RED ONE.

[MikeCurtis]

Stuart/Graeme - is it still switchable color/B&W?
-mike

[Graeme Nattress]

Thanks for that info Stuart!

Graeme

[Jannard]

Once the RED camera is available, why would you want to use another camera...? :-)

Jim

[Jannard]

Stuart/Graeme - is it still switchable color/B&W?
-mike

yes...

Jim

[Manfred Lopez]

Does anyone know if it will have an overscan area like in film cameras so we can see when the boom is creeping in before it gets recorded?

[Stuart English]

Yes, showing you what's happening outside of the recorded area (just like an optical viewfinder does) is one of the key differences between the RED-EVF and any other electronic viewfnding system. We call that feature SurroundView. This feature is also supported on the RED-LCD and both the HDMI and HD-SDI based HD Preview outputs.

[Sam Druckerman]

Yes, showing you what's happening outside of the recorded area (just like an optical viewfinder does) is one of the key differences between the RED-EVF and any other electronic viewfnding system. We call that feature SurroundView. This feature is also supported on the RED-LCD and both the HDMI and HD-SDI based HD Preview outputs.

VERY COOL.

[Brook Willard]

If you shoot 4K, you will have 4.5K visible in the EVF. That is, 4520x2540 will be visible "look-around" and the 4K area within will be recorded.

[MikeCurtis]

"SurroundView - see what is ABOUT to come into frame instead of what DID just come into frame."

Can anybody say boom mike?

: )

This really is one of the majorly cool innovative features.

-mike

[Manfred Lopez]

I am so happy now that I think I will go cry in a corner. This one feature is what has kept me from accepting other digital cameras.

[Steve Gibby]

I'm way stoked with the ability to switch to B&W on the EVF. Almost all of the EVFs I've used on professional EFP cameras have been B&W. When the brightness and contrast are tweaked right in B&W it is easier to see details of the shot and critical focus. I realize that the focus assist will help alot with that, but a B&W EVF is the industry norm on pro level EVFs. That said, I can think of sometimes when switching to color would be usable.

I'm also way happy with the SurroundView. There's nothing worse than getting into post with a show that is on deadline, and having to take valuable time to fix shots that have extraneous things in the frame - or even worse, have to go re-shoot a shot.

Kudos on both these features RED Team...

[Larry McKee]

SurroundView - Oh man! Like I said before, this whole thing just keeps getting better and better.

[tj williams]

Sony F900 2" vf in bw I believe the color is 2.5" diag. How large is the picture surface in the RED?

[Appleton]

"Daylight viewable LCD"

does this mean we might not have to get the EVF? i know that many consider it as a necessity.

i'd love a RED accessory road show before i receive my cam. just to get a physical idea of what i'll want/use. anybody? even if its after units start shipping...

[Alexander Nikishin]

We call that feature SurroundView. .

Any name for the focus assist feature yet?

I'd recommend this ..... :innocent:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=59199

[Bruce Allen]

Once the RED camera is available, why would you want to use another camera...? :-)

Jim

Haha... because you haven't made one that's cheap enough for me to buy yet? Because in my home country, your camera costs more than a house?

I think that Red has a lot of fans in my situation.

Anyway, congratulations on making it to another milestone and for treating your customers very well so far. I look forward to renting from them! Hopefully they will pass your generosity on...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I'm way stoked with the ability to switch to B&W on the EVF. Almost all of the EVFs I've used on professional EFP cameras have been B&W. When the brightness and contrast are tweaked right in B&W it is easier to see details of the shot and critical focus. I realize that the focus assist will help alot with that, but a B&W EVF is the industry norm on pro level EVFs. That said, I can think of sometimes when switching to color would be usable.



Yes with B&W you have better contrast and focus controll and colour give you a better framing.

[Pol Turrents]

Haha... because you haven't made one that's cheap enough for me to buy yet? Because in my home country, your camera costs more than a house?


Hey, in spain a house costs 400.000 euros right now! that's more than 20 reds!
I want to use another camera besides of red, just because we have many F900, F750 and varicam availables, and Red's, at this moment there are only 6 or 7 reserved in my area.

[Tony Lorentzen]

Once the RED camera is available, why would you want to use another camera...? :-)

My thoughts exactly. Although I still think the 3D beer-hat goggles is a cool idea :-)

[Michael Brennan]

The viewfinder like the rest of the camera looks very promising!

Is it possible to view all 4K pixels on the HDSDI or HDMI output, regardless of recording mode?

I shoot aerials with various external mounts, is there a camera remote control with menu display available?

Can the viewfinder display be selected to appear on HDSDI or HDMI?

Is it possible to err hack RS? control so Red could be remote controlled using numerous existing RS based remote control systems:)

Theoretical max distance between viewfinder and camera?

Is the HDSDI output designed as monitoring quality or full quality?

Mike

[Brook Willard]

HDMI and HD-SDI cannot support 4K. They can support 1080p. That's the "monitoring" quality.

We know there's a 10' EVF cable. Whether it can reach farther remains to be seen.

[Michael Brennan]

Perhaps for the first time on a professional camera, the RED-EVF has been designed from the perspective of an integrated monitoring component, rather than a stand alone device....


Most pro electronic broadcast cameras have a viewfinder with comphrensive camera menue displays including zoom, iris audio, exposure reference, optical filter, abilty to monitor individual channels and have adjustments to enhance focusing that work independently of other camera outputs.

None of them are a stand alone device unless you do a hack.

Surely these viewfinders could be described in your terms as an "integrated monitoring component" and thus predate RED-EVF viewfinder?

Mike

[Michael Brennan]

HDMI and HD-SDI cannot support 4K.
They can support 1080p. That's the "monitoring" quality.



Yes, 4k don't go into 1080p without sheding some pixels :) but if one is recording 1080p can the HDSDI output display 1080p at full 10bit glitch interference free quality.



Mike

[Zach Hilton]

"Daylight viewable LCD"

does this mean we might not have to get the EVF? i know that many consider it as a necessity.

i'd love a RED accessory road show before i receive my cam. just to get a physical idea of what i'll want/use. anybody? even if its after units start shipping...

NAB? Should be enough of a roadshow I hope.

[Rob Lohman]

Is the HDSDI output designed as monitoring quality or full quality?

There's a single-link HD-SDI output for monitoring (besides HDMI, EVF & LCD) and a dual-link HD-SDI for recording.

[Stuart English]

The RED-EVF and RED-LCD are close cousins. They are driven by a common output from the camera that is expressed on two independent DVI based digital video, power and control interfaces. You could think of them both as viewfinders, one in a tube and one flat.

You can use one, or the other, or both at the same time.

The RED-EVF has one or two additional capabilites I can discuss later, and is without doubt the higher performance product, but either one of them would be fine for camera operation. Both show Surround View, Histograms, Focus Assist, Frame Guides and Camera menus / status.

As an example, if you were shooting underwater or on steadicam the RED-LCD would be the best choice.

[S. Um]

Excuse me for asking, but what are the advantages of using the EVF over using the LCD? I normally use the LCD, and the only time I use the EVF is in bright sunlight.

[Joe Aurili]

And does the LCD really work well in the sun? I have never seen one that was good enough to use outdoors and see clearly.

[Stuart English]

Never is a word that we like to hear at RED. It motivates us.

[Mark Pugh]

The RED-EVF and RED-LCD are close cousins. They are driven by a common output from the camera that is expressed on two independent DVI based digital video, power and control interfaces. You could think of them both as viewfinders, one in a tube and one flat.

You can use one, or the other, or both at the same time.

The RED-EVF has one or two additional capabilites I can discuss later, and is without doubt the higher performance product, but either one of them would be fine for camera operation. Both show Surround View, Histograms, Focus Assist, Frame Guides and Camera menus / status.

As an example, if you were shooting underwater or on steadicam the RED-LCD would be the best choice.
When you say histograms, do you mean waveform monitor??

[Stuart English]

No, I mean histograms.

see www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms2.htm as an example of what we are providing.

But we also offer waveform monitoring too.

[LighthouseMEdia]

HISTOGRAMS AND WAVEFORMS!!!!
Thats bleeding awesome!!

[Graeme Nattress]

No, just awesome. I think an EVF would be hard to use if the colours were bleeding :-)

Graeme

[Joe Aurili]

Never is a word that we like to hear at RED. It motivates us.

Well, then I have also never seen a camera that can go out and film for me while I watch TV :)

If the LCD can be used in bright light, that is great. I have never been a fan of the viewfinder, since I wear glasses. And living in Phoenix, there is a lot of sunlight!

[Evin Grant]

By viewable in daylight do mean direct sunlight hitting the surface of the screen (Transflective) or bright enough with a hood to be of reasonable use.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Stuart,

I have a few questions about the lcd.

There will be no wireless function correct?

If so, how will we feed the lcd signal on jib or crane work? Are we forced to rent/purchase a wireless tap?

I'm aware of the hd-sdi feed but will the lcd accept any other connector besides lemo? If so, lemo is quite pricey. :turned:

Will the cameras hd-sdi feed allow for monitoring waveform/histogram funtions off camera?

Will the focus assist function be hd-sdi fed or limited to lcd/evf viewing?

[tj williams]

Stuart et al RED we have a 30 ft camera crane and the lcd has a 10 foot cable. it this a problem?

[Alexander Nikishin]

Anyone?

[Finner]

HDMI cable in the output to a HDMI monitor at the tent with the wheels.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The signal is supposedly DVI based... So pushing it to 30ft or even 50ft should be do-able with a good cable. You might get away with stacking multiple 10ft cables, maybe. Should be standard LEMO cables with standard pin-outs I would guess (actually, I would assume all straight-thru). Theoretically, RED would probably offer longer lengths and if not, you could probably order one from other cable vendors.

[Brook Willard]

Stuart et al RED we have a 30 ft camera crane and the lcd has a 10 foot cable. it this a problem?

The crane doesn't have HD-SDI running down to a monitor?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Or, as Finner said. Use the HDMI output... And use a standard HDMI cable.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Will the lcd have an hdmi input?

Will the HDMI output send out histogram, waveform, and focus assist views as well?

[Alexander Nikishin]

My main goal is to be able to utilize the lcd for the AC without having to pay an arm and a leg for lemo extensions.

[Finner]

If the AC is pulling focus off the EVF while the camera is on a crane unless it is a wide lens they will be soft. A monitor is a crutch for an AC and good AC's don't use them to try and pull from.

[Alexander Nikishin]

If the AC is pulling focus off the EVF while the camera is on a crane unless it is a wide lens they will be soft. A monitor is a crutch for an AC and good AC's don't use them to try and pull from.

I'd beg to differ, but I'll also add that in the worst case, we may not be able to feed out our histogram and waveform via hd-sdi. It may be limited to evf or lcd viewing only for those features. For many situations, especially for jib work, that is a definite drawback.

If that is the case, then a set monitor with those functions and or waveform monitors and the such will be needed. I'd like to eliminate as much cost and equipment moving as possible. Also, it wouldn't hurt not having to run to the monitor and have an op. handle the jib. I'd much prefer to have the lcd ground level for framing, waveform, histogram, as well as the ability to know whether or not I'm rolling.

All of these requests are dependent upon the ability of using the lcd at longer distances and having those features fed out via hd-sdi. Hopefully both options will work.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Also, not having to interrupt the Director with random graphs that neither he nor she understands or cares for on their viewing monitor is quite a nice catch. This was all stated in my 5th place Red Eye Focus Assist entry in addition to other requests...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=59199

[chuck colburn]

I thougth historams showed expouser levels. What does that have to do with focus? I'm confused.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Stuart et al RED we have a 30 ft camera crane and the lcd has a 10 foot cable. it this a problem?

TJ's question kind of got lost in a stack of opinions, but I think an answer to his specific question is still worthy.. Since I have a 30ft jib too, DAMNIT!

:)

So Graeme Rob, somebody, we need 30ft of cable for the LCD, anything you guys can offer for that?
Jay

And yes guys we know there are other vid outs on this thing, but we paid for the damn LCD and we want to use it by god! The idea here is NOT to rent monitors until we've used the ones we've paid for
:)

[Alexander Nikishin]

I thougth historams showed expouser levels. What does that have to do with focus? I'm confused.

Histograms have nothing to do with focus...

[Joe Carney]

I see hdmi used for the DOP and/or Director to look at.
Gefen makes hdmi extender systems that give you up to 150ft for 1080p with cat5e or longer with fiber.
Check in the home theater section.

http://www.gefen.com/

Lots of other stuff too.

[Pol Turrents]

Histograms have nothing to do with focus...

that's not true at all....
Today, shooting with the weisscam, I've been focusing with the histogram... when a chart is not properly focused, you can see all the pixel gouped (it's difficult to explain without a camera, and with my poor english), and if the chart have correct focus, all the pixels are spread along the histogram.
Something similar can be done with a waveform.

[chuck colburn]

Yeah but you can't have a target in front of the talent when your shooting.

[Pol Turrents]

Yeah but you can't have a target in front of the talent when your shooting.

but for shootings with macro is perfect

[chuck colburn]

but for shootings with macro is perfect

Ok
Except at macro magnifications your depth of field is so shallow that if you can't see it in the viewfinder something is very wrong!

[Pol Turrents]

Ok
Except at macro magnifications your depth of field is so shallow that if you can't see it in the viewfinder something is very wrong!

ok, next time I'll shoot macros with the weisscam I bring you as focus puller without chart and histograms...

[chuck colburn]

Perhaps I didn't understand. I don't know the weisscam but I take it that it does not have a viewfinder.

[Ralph Oshiro]

The EVF is a CRT, yes?

[Jannard]

no... think Accuscene but much smaller and better.

Jim

[Rick Darge]

Better in what ways though Jim?

[Ralph Oshiro]

Oh, hi, Jim! Thanks!

[Mark B.]

So this EVF, it's got 1280x720 pixels?

[Brook Willard]

So this EVF, it's got 1280x720 pixels?

Bingo. The same applies for the LCD.