MATRIX System 4K

[Sanjin Jukic]

Does anybody "own" user experience with MATRIX System 4K?

"MATRIX System 4K provides film post-production professionals with

a solution that efficiently handles 4K full aperture media in every step

of the post-production process, as well as real-time playback.

Thanks to the latest hardware innovations, MATRIX System 4K is a powerful

solution for high-performance facilities working with 4K RGB or 4K RAW data."

http://www.chrome-imaging.com/images/screenshots/matrix_lrg.jpg
A typical MATRIX hardware setup

http://www.chrome-imaging.com/images/screenshots/color_grade_scopes_sec.jpg
Realtime histogram, vectorscope and RGB waveform

MORE>>> (http://www.chrome-imaging.com/spip.php?rubrique26)

[Gunleik Groven]

Nice find Sanjin

Gunleik

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

thanks Sanjin for this but i think it is easy to find out about it from their
customers list they have one at
(Freestudios - Geneva)
1205 Genève - SWITZERLAND
tél. : +41 22 592 5000
maybe they could help us with thier experience with this system

[Sanjin Jukic]

thanks Sanjin for this but i think it is easy to find out about it from their
customers list they have one at
(Freestudios - Geneva)
1205 Genève - SWITZERLAND
tél. : +41 22 592 5000
maybe they could help us with thier experience with this system

Anyway Swiss connection here at the forum could help us.

[laguun]

thanks Sanjin for this but i think it is easy to find out about it from their
customers list they have one at
(Freestudios - Geneva)
1205 Genève - SWITZERLAND
tél. : +41 22 592 5000
maybe they could help us with thier experience with this system

i looked at matrix this IBC 2007 - impressive system for sure.
The people are pretty informed and talk very open, i spoke several times with them on the phone.

They told us that they would like support R3D at once if they would be given the permission/details.

What i found pretty impressive about matrix chrome is that it isn´t an conforming system - you actually can -edit- on the system which is great.

price was also pretty interesting.

p.s.
what everyone said who saw it was that their interface is gorgeous. I spoke a little bit with the interface designer (he is greek) and he indeed is a classical artist.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Also I heard that can play 4K tiffs in real time.

[Rainer Fritz]

nice tool.... have to start my copy machine to make some euros for this black box....

[Sanjin Jukic]

Rainer,

never enough euros....:) .

[Simon Blackledge]

those chassis are all over the show
http://www.servercase.co.uk/productView.asp?SubCategoryID=12&ProductID=150

thing they do well is gui and getting the best out of os and hardware.. I think on par with Ass... ho hum.. ;) just no redcode yet..

Autodesk need to catch up.. fluid is the new geek chic :)

[Sanjin Jukic]

those chassis are all over the show
http://www.servercase.co.uk/productView.asp?SubCategoryID=12&ProductID=150

thing they do well is gui and getting the best out of os and hardware.. I think on par with Ass... ho hum.. ;) just no redcode yet..

Autodesk need to catch up.. fluid is the new geek chic :)

Thanks Flameop.

Great find.

[Paul Hazlett]

anybody have a ballpark price or know if they will be at NAB?

[Michael Lindsay]

Matrix, as it is now known, has been around for many years (different names, different target markets)...

I mention this because there is a few question marks over its it...

I mention this to try and protect any fellow redusers (not to be negative)...

As always do your research...

Michael

[laguun]

Matrix, as it is now known, has been around for many years (different names, different target markets)...
I mention this because there is a few question marks over its it...
I mention this to try and protect any fellow redusers (not to be negative)...

Any smaller garage operation is endangered, as DI will be -totally- commonplace within 1 or 2 updates from the 500 pound gorillas.

As example 5D, went bankrupt, all Cyborg users completely in the rain, all assets bought by autodesk, then reinvented itself again as Assimilate and now is offering scratch. I dont know how many employees they have, but i would be pretty surprised if the softwarehouse is affording more than 50 full-time employees. Furthermore, to not be assimialte-specific, most smaller DI software garages offering DI have less than 1.000 customers, which is dead-end, once their single trick pony is cloned or killed.



As always do your research...
Michael

Fully agree.
In the case of Matrix chrome, i didnt follow the background story to closely - wasnt it an open-source rotoscoping system once?

[Lucas Wilson]

As example 5D, went bankrupt, all Cyborg users completely in the rain, all assets bought by autodesk, then reinvented itself again as Assimilate and now is offering scratch.

No. 5D and ASSIMILATE share two employees, and that's pretty much it.

I also know 3 people that used to work for Parallax in Product Design that went to work for Avid. Ipso facto, Parallax reinvented itself as Avid or an Avid product?


Furthermore, to not be assimialte-specific, most smaller DI software garages offering DI have less than 1.000 customers, which is dead-end, once their single trick pony is cloned or killed.

There are less than 1000 iQs in the world. Also less than 1000 Lustres. Less than 1000 Baselights... Speedgrade... FilmMaster... Resolve... SCRATCH...

You should probably rethink that statement.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[GlennChan]

anybody have a ballpark price or know if they will be at NAB?
fxguide.com has a podcast on Matrix, with some ballpark pricing (six figures). Dan Tatut mentioned that they were looking at cheaper/cut-down versions from my recollection of the podcast.

That podcast was in 2006 though.

[Sanjin Jukic]

ASSIMILATE, LUSTRE, MATRIX even AVID are all very nice but I do have feeling of the market (especially after tomorrow's Oscar Night) that many things are going to change rapidly in the industry.

Final Cut Studio is a way to go (with RED).

FCS 4K workflow and FCS server is coming up soon (this year for sure).

The next BIG happening is Cannes with Soderberg's last two movies shot all on RED.

[laguun]

There are less than 1000 iQs in the world. Also less than 1000 Lustres. Less than 1000 Baselights... Speedgrade... FilmMaster... Resolve... SCRATCH...

You should probably rethink that statement.



<1000 lustres, but discreet has flame, combustion, flint, inferno, smoke, stone, backdraft, wire, 3ds max, maya, cleaner, toxik....

<1000 iQ, but quantel has eQ, marco, pablo, enterprise sQ, newsbox HD, sQ editor, eQ, sid...

<1000 speedgrades, but 1000s framecyclers, speedgrade HD (9.999), speedgrade on set... etc

<1000 baselight, but northlight filmscanners, truelight calibration systems etc.

Dont get me wrong luki, i am not saying this to put assimilate in a bad light - the opposite - i wouldnt be surprised if you guys would now be able to sell >1000 "redscratches", with redcoderaw only support at $$$$, we spoke about this like half a year ago and i still think you are passing on a great window of oppurtunity.

The topend DI market is pretty much saturated, from the 20-40 possible installations here in berlin as example, most already have since years their infernos/baselight (cineplus), clipster (fxfactory, postfactory, mf), speedgrade (achim & laguun, magnamedia), mystika (das werk), sony kingcobra (looks, laguun, cineplus) etc etc.

That market is near saturated and certainly not dominated by assimilate - but there are 3.000++ reds to feed... but the huge part of these interested accounts will certainly not spend more than $$$$ - why should they, when desktop DI is already a reality at apple and adobe is ante portas, or geared up with cineform, looks, tiffen etc also already there.

[Lucas Wilson]

<1000 lustres, but discreet has flame, combustion, flint, inferno, smoke, stone, backdraft, wire, 3ds max, maya, cleaner, toxik....

Of course I know that Autodesk and Quantel have other products... but your statement was specific to DI. : )

Lucas

[Andrew Madu]

Final Cut Studio is a way to go (with RED).

FCS 4K workflow and FCS server is coming up soon (this year for sure).

Let's wait and see what other vendors have to offer in April, and there after, when RED are 'loosed' from their exclusivity contract with Apple.

[Gunleik Groven]

FCS 4K workflow and FCS server is coming up soon (this year for sure).


After attending some Apple events and talking with Apple employees, I wouldn't hold my breath. They take the stand that "you don't need it" and "hey, this is a cheap package of software, don't expect wonders". Arguments I do understand to a certain dgree BTW... :)

When I say: RAW workflow, everything goes:
But you really want to work in ProRes.
Which I really don't for all purposes.
Even though it's a nice codec.

Gunleik

[laguun]

Of course I know that Autodesk and Quantel have other products... but your statement was specific to DI. : )



Lucas,
Your DI solution is in the desktop software market.
Scratch isnt widely used yet as DI yet, and to play a important role in any desktop market, you need a solid market share our a diversified portfolio.

Look what happened to the 3D animation market, alias power animator, tdi|wavefront explore, the softimage classic... all once 50.000$ products, all manufacturer bought, all product discontinued.

The exact same market mechanics are working on the DI software market since 2007, and all mayor players have a widespread portfolio, and massive userbases.

Any small softwarehouse, as assimilate, who wants to secure its customers investments and its own future, should have a clear strategy to deal with this.

scratch is missing the opportunity to become the defacto default red workflow, as the price is not right for reds clients.

When in ~60 days the redcode raw fileformat will be disclosed, you will have competition. I suppose with your 50.000 price tag you will loose 1000s of potential customers owning the red camera to two certain other manufacturers already in Q2/2008, which will offer $$$$ DI/conform solutions which arent less powerful than your system and will then get the positive buzz and become the "defacto" red workflow - what assimilate is missing as opportunity right now. If you dont want to catch up with reds revolutionary pricing, somebody else will soon.

anyhow, i am leaving for a trip to costa rica today, and i expect you to fix all this until i return in 8 days :)

[cwpark]

Hi all,
Just subscribed to a Redone member~

As a representative in Asia of Chrome, we have MATRIX 2K system in Korea.
Now there is some customers in several countries like in Mexico, Paris, Roma, Tokyo and soon in sevreral countries in Asia and US. We will have MATRIX 2K system in a booth in Hong-Kong (www.hkfilmart.com) exibition from 17 to 20 of March. Please look at www.chrome-imaging.co.kr
We do realtime DPX, CIN, TIFF from 10 to 32 bits float in realtime playback and realtime color grade in 2K and 4K (Primary and secondary). For further information, please join to www.chrome-imaging.com.

Thank you.

[Mat@imageWork]

Hi all,
Just subscribed to a Redone member~

As a representative in Asia of Chrome, we have MATRIX 2K system in Korea.
Now there is some customers in several countries like in Mexico, Paris, Roma, Tokyo and soon in sevreral countries in Asia and US. We will have MATRIX 2K system in a booth in Hong-Kong (www.hkfilmart.com) exibition from 17 to 20 of March. Please look at www.chrome-imaging.co.kr
We do realtime DPX, CIN, TIFF from 10 to 32 bits float in realtime playback and realtime color grade in 2K and 4K (Primary and secondary). For further information, please join to www.chrome-imaging.com.

Thank you.

Hi cwpark,

As you can see, there is many people here interested in 4K worflow with RED. When shoot with RED is done, and EDL or XML from offline in FCP is over too, how chrome is involved to finish a project? How simple is the process. Finishing is not just conform and grading. A lot of dust and wire removal are also needed. As well as titling, versioning, approb, etc...

Is there a specific hardware involved in Chrome DI, 2K or 4K in processing the grade (like DaVinci). What are the difference in between software version and complete system?

Thanks in adavnce.

[GlennChan]

A lot of dust and wire removal are also needed.
(From what I've seen of Matrix) Last year they introduced new restoration tools based on optical flow, which works really well in automatically getting rid of dust and such. It will pull sections from the frame after+before to fill in damage (with the optical flow compensating for motion). You can also manually go in and fix areas where the automatic tools don't work (e.g. if one frame has really large damage, pulling image from the frames after+before won't work if there is dust there as all three frames have damage in equivalent places).... so you can for example use the clone tool to manually handle that.

You're probably better off getting a demo of the system to see the performance, how well the restoration tools work (or don't), workflow options (though the Red workflow is evolving/changing), etc. etc. I believe it does have titling tools to handle versioning for different languages, editing tools for conform, and compositing tools because as you point out "finishing is not just conform and grading". But anyways, get a demo to see for yourself what the good and weak points are.

2- Oh, and you shouldn't have dust problems if you are shooting with Red. ;)

[Sven Seynaeve]

Does anyone have the listprice or any idea about pricing for a 4k system orthe direct email of this company???

[cwpark]

Hello Sven,
You can ask to Mr. Dan TATUT. His direct mail-adress is:

dtatut@chrome-imaging.com

You will hear about a listprice of MATRIX System
Software only (MATRIX Cineplay, MATRIX Color, MATRIX Color Extreme) to Full package of Software and Hardware (MATRIX DI2K, MATRIX 2K and MATRIX 4K).

[Mat@imageWork]

Hi glenn,
Thanks. I stay a couple of time on their website. Seems very nice product. In fact, there is a lot of very good product around for DI, and not only color grading but editing and conforming, with compositing possibilities. The real think is to build a workflow and make it work. If I'm a production compagny, and I decide to shoot with RED, I probably gonna make my edit. And then? Even if I have a good grading tool, who's gonna run it?

In fact, shipping and EDL, the R3D footage associate to someone should be possible. For a entire solution, We should build a online webased service where we can find colorist, editor, compositor (VFX), VFX team (3D, matte painting, tracking and roto). You have access to their demo, avaibility and price. Ship the EDL, R3D footage is possible, even shear some of them (ex: shot to comp is a not big folder) Everybody can bid, or check each day the work posted or asked. The biggest post-production facility because the is hundred and hundred people ready to work home. Imagine a colorist who can grade home an indy film. A comp artist who take some shot. If some of them need 3D tracking, this shot is also avaible for tracking guys.

One worklow (with different tool) tested, one managing team, one place. Hundred of people.

[Mat@imageWork]

Lucas,
Your DI solution is in the desktop software market.
Scratch isnt widely used yet as DI yet, and to play a important role in any desktop market, you need a solid market share our a diversified portfolio.

Look what happened to the 3D animation market, alias power animator, tdi|wavefront explore, the softimage classic... all once 50.000$ products, all manufacturer bought, all product discontinued.

The exact same market mechanics are working on the DI software market since 2007, and all mayor players have a widespread portfolio, and massive userbases.

Any small softwarehouse, as assimilate, who wants to secure its customers investments and its own future, should have a clear strategy to deal with this.

scratch is missing the opportunity to become the defacto default red workflow, as the price is not right for reds clients.

When in ~60 days the redcode raw fileformat will be disclosed, you will have competition. I suppose with your 50.000 price tag you will loose 1000s of potential customers owning the red camera to two certain other manufacturers already in Q2/2008, which will offer $$$$ DI/conform solutions which arent less powerful than your system and will then get the positive buzz and become the "defacto" red workflow - what assimilate is missing as opportunity right now. If you dont want to catch up with reds revolutionary pricing, somebody else will soon.

anyhow, i am leaving for a trip to costa rica today, and i expect you to fix all this until i return in 8 days :)

I just red your post. Even if your analyse in term of market price target is good, there is one thing really is missing (no offense): tools don't give skills. If 1000 red user capable of shooting good or decent footage is still very good enough. Don't ask a DOP to also grade it! But if 1000 red user gives 150-200 new good colorist, well formed, well equiped to make 1000 red's DOP user happy, then I think assimilate would have make a good work.

Assimilate or Iridias or Matrix or Color or etc...just to stay far to this other brand.

[dtatut@chrome-imaging.com]

Nice to have some interest here. For more information, you can contact us or go directly to http://www.chrome-imaging.com/forum/index.php.

And yes! (as tons of people have asked this) We will support R3D files as soon as Red releases the SDK

[Greg M]

We are demoing the software next week, I'll post a full review.

[Peace Villow]

Hi Dan,

Couple questions from me:
1. Will the new Matrix Color & Matrix Color EXTREME will support Tangent control panel?
2. I wonder if Chrome Imaging will have a booth at Broadcast Asia in Singapore this year.

Thanks.

[dtatut@chrome-imaging.com]

Hi pvillow

your answers:

1) Matrix has always supported the Tangent Devices CP100 and last year we have added support for the CP200 panels as well

2) CHROME Imaging Asia will exhibit at KOBA Show in a few weeks in Seoul... They did not announce a presence at Broadcast Asia yet... but I'm quite sure something may happen until then. Contact Chan-Won Park : cwpark@chrome-imaging.com or cwpark@chrome-imaging.co.kr to get a demo in your area. Or join the forum: http://www.chrome-imaging.com/forum/index.php

Best

Dan

[Bang WOW Bang]

Hi Dan,

Couple questions from me:
1. Will the new Matrix Color & Matrix Color EXTREME will support Tangent control panel?
2. I wonder if Chrome Imaging will have a booth at Broadcast Asia in Singapore this year.

Thanks.

Martrix Systems have supported Tangen CP-100 and they had shown live
2-4K DPX files grading demo at HKFilmart 2008 from 17-20th March with WOW Holdings in HKG.

Cheers,

Stewart
CEO
WOW Holdings
HKG - CHINA

[Bang WOW Bang]

Does anyone have the listprice or any idea about pricing for a 4k system orthe direct email of this company???

I have a Scratch Full option ( Pre-Post Primary and Sceondary Color Grading ) not Scratch Cine ( Only Primary Color Correction ) systems in HKG.

I have a Tangen CP-200 ( A set of four conrtol panels ) + 8-16TB Fast RAID 5Storage in our facility in HKG.

Best regards,

Stewart Chong
CEO
WOW Holdings and Digitainment
HG -CHINA + Thailand
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10471