NAB Surprises

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I think tonight, Red gave us more "information" than just an (outrageously exciting) price list.

For instance, Stuart just wrote:


RED-RAM is a special version of the RED-DRIVE chassis that has two 32GB flash memory modules instead of hard disk drives. This arrangement offers outstanding resiliance against extremes of temperature and vibration, and a very high maximum data transfer rate.

I think Stuart wouldn't insist on this technical caracteristic (the "very high maximum data transfer rate") if this didn't clearly provide an advantage vs. the other recording options (like the Red-Drive). My guess is this is one of the NAB "surprises": the RED-RAM is probably gonna open of few additionnal options regarding the recording possibilities... I guess this might allow for some burst of RAW overcranked 2K (or even 4K) :wink:

Also, did anyone notice the lenses that are shown on the prices list's pictures! Looks like "Red Primes" don't they? I'm willing to bet another of those "NAB surprises" is gonna be a nice set of (very fast) Primes

OK! Enough predictions for today! Your turn! Grab a crystal ball and tell me what you think the possible "NAB surprises" are gonna be :)

[Ken Corben]

I think an interesting surprise will be the number of orders placed for Red camera systems at and following NAB.

It will be a very interesting indicator of changes in end user production techniques. i.e., tapeless, multiformat etc.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I think an interesting surprise will be the number of orders placed for Red camera systems at and following NAB.


The first day of NAB - another 500 cameras. It will be insane. Red Team is going to need some RED BULLS -

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

an interesting surprise will be the number of orders placed for Red camera systems at and following NAB

My crystal ball shows me a 4 digit number... But it's kind of fuzzy :)

[Brook Willard]

Also, did anyone notice the lenses that are shown on the prices list's pictures!

The rendered lens has three geared rings - it's a zoom. it's also a prime-shaped zoom. I'd put money on it being a placeholder rendered lens to make the camera packages look more balanced.

[Steve Gibby]

I think even RED's bigger booth is going to look like one of those frat house telephone booth stuffing contests - it will be packed to the max!

[Alexander Nikishin]

I think even RED's bigger booth is going to look like one of those frat house telephone booth stuffing contests - it will be packed to the max!

Sausage fest! :ranting2:

[Steve Gibby]

:help: ...I need in!

[Joel Kaye]

Sausage fest! :ranting2:

I think that's when RED visits San Francisco.

[MikeCurtis]

My guess on the the RED-RAM - if it is an eSATA connection, that maxes out around 220 or 230 megaBYTES per second - so the bus itself is not fast enough for 4K 24p RAW unfortunately. BUT....maybe fast enough for 2K RAW uncompressed 24p (maybe more), or higher framerates of compressed RAW footage? Depends on the max transfer rates of the RAM stuff itself to say. Maybe that is required to catch 720p120 or something like that? 2K@24p MIGHT be possible - but in short bursts. Hmm...quickie napkin math paints that as very possible, at least from a datarate perspective. Whether the onboard compression stuff could handle something higher res is the unknown and presumed not likely.

We'd have to know how high the datarate is to say.

-mike

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Mike, elsewhere Jim has said that RED-RAM will the way most pros go, and that it's a great option, and so on, so surely it must be able to handle 4K 24P RAW. It seems crazy to build a camera that can shoot 4K 24p RAW, and then make the 'best choice' storage solution unable to cope with the footage. Can somebody confirm or deny this?

[Alexander Nikishin]

Red Ram will allow for 4k REDCODE RAW, not 4K uncompressed RAW recroding.

To shoot in 4k uncompressed, you will need to purchase the Red Raw Port.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Thanks Alexander. When I wrote "RAW" I meant REDCODE RAW, and I'd assumed that's what Mike meant. Now, I realise he probably didn't. Funny, RAW used to me genuinely RAW; now it can mean something else - REDCODE RAW. I'll have to be more precise. I get the impression that REDCODE RAW will be nearly as good as actual RAW. Jim keeps saying REDCODE RAW is a very big deal, so this is all good.

[Steve Gibby]

I get the impression that REDCODE RAW will be nearly as good as actual RAW.

At the Los Angeles screening of RED in December I checked out RAW and REDCODE RAW projected sequentially via a Sony 4k projector on a 35' screen. To my experienced eyes there was no discernable difference. IMO the RED One camera and accessories, and their prices, are major breakthroughs...but an even bigger breakthrough that is the key to putting it all in action is REDCODE, and specifically REDCODE RAW. Be prepared for a pleasant shock when you see 4k REDCODE RAW footage!

[planet e]

just to point out, on several threads jim jannard has actually discouraged us from purchasing the uncompressed port before seeing what REDCODE RAW can do. now if this guy is a salesman, what kind of salesman steers his customers AWAY from a $6500 accessory??

it is just unbelievable to me, the integrity of this guy. a blessing, really.

[Jannard]

just to point out, on several threads jim jannard has actually discouraged us from purchasing the uncompressed port before seeing what REDCODE RAW can do. now if this guy is a salesman, what kind of salesman steers his customers AWAY from a $6500 accessory??

Obviously... not a very good one. :-)

Remember... I'm a customer, too.

Jim

[Joel Kaye]

just to point out, on several threads jim jannard has actually discouraged us from purchasing the uncompressed port before seeing what REDCODE RAW can do. now if this guy is a salesman, what kind of salesman steers his customers AWAY from a $6500 accessory??



He is pushing a proprietary codec of course. That's a pretty smart move... if everybody brags on the codec there's only one camera that'll deliver it. I'm pretty confident it'll be the best codec in the business. It may be that we'll be staying in that codec in post when NLE's support it. Graeme could probaby clue us in to that likelihood.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Obviously... not a very good one. :-)

Remember... I'm a customer, too.

Jim

It's amazing how you're a complete realist about workflow and at the same time a complete visionary in creating a freekin 4k camera for pesos lol.

[Brian Ferguson]

The first day of NAB - another 500 cameras. It will be insane. Red Team is going to need some RED BULLS -

Oh, I just had a NAB 2006 flashback, the last afternoon of NAB I had a huge Red Bull crash. Those are horrible. Glad I wasn't driving home that night!

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I guess you could characterize Jim's enthusiasm for RedCode as "pushing" a proprietary codec (I can just hear them at the Sony booth saying "but then you're stuck in their codec" in an ominous tone). I see it more as his understanding of just how critical a great codec is in making a 4k camera system functional in the real world of current and near future infrastructure.

Even if the camera and all the accessories were at HVX prices, if uncompressed 4k was the only data path to post it would hardly be the democratization of filmmaking that constitutes a rebellion.

My analogy would be the 200 mpg experimental cars that use emerging tech solutions - until you can refuel them at 100,000 places in less than 5 minutes and go at least 400 miles with 4 passengers and gear they are just R&D excercises, not transportation solutions.

The icing on the cake is that the RedCode codec is providing camera RAW data with a level of exposure, gamma and color range tweakability that enables modern post topologies to show their true power.

Bottom line - most people in our industry don't even begin to comprehend just how revolutionary this camera system is. NAB may be the earthquake but the aftershocks will go on for years.

[Priyesh P.]

What else then some sort of crude, physical codec is HDCAM or HDCAM SR ? Not speaking about dvcpro / dvcpro 50 / dvcpro hd. But even more evil these "codecs" need disgustingly expensive converters called "tapedecks".
It´s insane at times when there are really good camera-heads outputting uncompressed images which then have to be compressed and stuffed to inferior tapes / disks / ssds only to be ingested into uncompressed suites again like flame / IQ / Nitris / or through aja / blackmagic cards. Thats weird.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I had this discussion with a film shooter who said he had all of his 35MM negs transferred to HDCAM and he said that is the highest digital quality you can get! Think again HDCAM is 3:1:1 compression. So is REDCODE something we could record with on lets say a TeleCine? Bring in a 35MM neg and transfer direct to REDCODE?

[jbeale]

It would be strange to do a telecine to Redcode, even if it were somehow possible. Didn't Stuart say that Redcode is designed exclusively for the Red sensor, which being a single-chip Bayer array does not sample RGB at every pixel or photosite, the way that scanned film normally is done?

[Chris Kenny]

There are two versions of REDCODE, the RAW version (which works with bayer sensor data), and an RGB version. You can't take existing footage and encode it to REDCODE RAW, but you can encode to REDCODE RGB. Depending on the license, the RGB version of REDCODE could become a very useful tool in some post workflows.

[Emery Wells]

I predict a 4k Projector for $20,000!

[Antoine Baumann]

There are two versions of REDCODE, the RAW version (which works with bayer sensor data), and an RGB version. You can't take existing footage and encode it to REDCODE RAW, but you can encode to REDCODE RGB. Depending on the license, the RGB version of REDCODE could become a very useful tool in some post workflows.

Yeah exactly, and I really hope that REDCODE RGB will become sort of a standard for postproduction.

But it seems that in these days it should be able to record some metadata (such as all the lens information, which are important when compositing the footage with 3D) and carry them during the whole workflow.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I predict a 4k Projector for $20,000!

If that happens, my wife would kill me... I would have to finish out the basement and build a nice theatre/screening room. :)

[REDHKSC]

He is pushing a proprietary codec of course. That's a pretty smart move... if everybody brags on the codec there's only one camera that'll deliver it. I'm pretty confident it'll be the best codec in the business. It may be that we'll be staying in that codec in post when NLE's support it. Graeme could probaby clue us in to that likelihood.

Why not selling some good proprietary technologies for an affordable Camera with the key Elements/Factors : it's a " OSFC " ( OPTICS / SENSOR / FORMAT / CODEC ) compare to " SONY " ( SOON / ONLY / NOT / YET ).

Many people aware of the new four letters ( OSFC )

STEWART
Founder
REDHKSC
RED 1 x68 in 2007

[Mark L. Pederson]

I predict a 4k Projector for $20,000!

Impossible.

[Jaime Vallés]

Impossible.
Nice. :holloween:

[MikeCurtis]

I'd love to hear the Sony folks say "stuck in that codec" - Yeah, until you fire up your copy of Redcode to convert to any codec you want, and it is free with camera. Want to convert Sony's proprietary codecs, aka HDCAM and HDCAM SR? Those decks cost more than a Red One (OK, not the JH-3, but you get my point).

[Michael Schrengohst]

I need a REDTELECINE to transfer 35MM to REDCODE.
I have a ton of 35 on HDCAM and when people want
clips I have to go to a post house and pay at least
an hour to get the clips I need over to a QT.

[Jared VanLeuven]

Impossible.

Uh oh, Jim probably read that and you know how he is.:red_bandana:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Uh oh, Jim probably read that and you know how he is.:red_bandana:

We can only hope. :)

[david farland]

What I’m hoping for at NAB:

1. REDCODE API in at least one of the big NLE’s to be able to edit native REDCODE. Maybe Vegas will be the first!!

2. Good RPL tool that supports most of the EDL/XML/AAF etc standards etc.

3. Onboard REDCODED 2K@120fps (raw=380MB/s) may be feasible as REDCODE is currently producing 4K@30fps (raw=380MB/s).

4. Ability to backup REDRAM/FLASH to REDDRIVE.

Cheers,
Dave

[Jannard]

You will get some to most of what you want.

Jim

[david farland]

2 ½ out of 4 is great!

thanks,

[Don Woods]

I really can't wait till may

[Thom Steinhoff]

You will get some to most of what you want.

Jim

some to most is music to my ears but I'm hoping for a "Most to all" for my want list...

1) Native Redcode editing in Final Cut
2) Onboard 2K at 60fps
3) Red Ram to Red Drive with "silent Mode" that shoots to Ram and spins up and spools to the drive only on "Cut!"

[Alexander Nikishin]

some to most is music to my ears but I'm hoping for a "Most to all" for my want list...
2) Onboard 2K at 60fps

You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.

[Thom Steinhoff]

You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.

We'll make it work: good lenses, a bit of math, I think it will be beautiful. I put that one in to show that I'm a realist that truely appreciates what we're getting. Some hinting but no real confirmation on the other two--and those would go a long way to making a super streamlined workflow.

I really don't want to continously connect and disconnect a ram drive to dump it (like a digital colostomy bag) I'd rather have the ram working all day keeping the camera silent and secure but dumping to disk whenever it has a bit of time and doesn't worry about a bit of noise.

My fear is the drive will be relatively quiet but as good as an air conditioner to a sound guy when you get onto a sound stage. I really think Ram is the way to go--I just don't want to be changing it all day and wearing out the connectors!

[Emanuel A.]

You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.EDIT -- So, 1080p RGB is a better way and the difference (for a 5% as average use) is slightly noticeable or not even so much.

[Thom Steinhoff]

So, 1080p RGB is a better way and the difference (for a 5% as average use) is slightly noticeable or not even so much.

You loose the Raw control and not much has been said about the quality of 1080p RGB as far as compression and what level of quality you can get recording to Red Ram or Red Drive.

It seems a little less magical than Red Code to me and as the current high end crop is recording 1080p to massive Raid arrays to regain the quality-- how will it hold up against 1080p compressed enough for an on camera solution?

Most of the tricks Graeme has been talking about and demonstrating have been in the Redcode Raw arena so I'm not sure what's in store for us with true RGB--but we'll just have to wait and see.

I assumed that the best quality 1080 RGB would be coming out of one of the digital ports and therefore require a deck or external raid array rather than spooled to red disk/red ram--but I could be wrong.

I'm sure that anything that gets approved by Jim and Graeme will be great--It just remains to be seen.

[Emanuel A.]

OK, I'll go again here:

So, 1080p RGB is a better way 'cause the difference 2K -> 1080p here is slightly noticeable. Not the same for 35mm vs. the S16mm sensor frame size. And I'd guess the same on the RAW control vs. RGB.

EDIT -- But I agreed, given the fact this just remains to be seen.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I'd imagine that the best way to shoot 1080p would be to shoot in 4k redcode then use redcine to downconvert to 1080p. The Red team has faith in the "4k to any flavor" method so I trust them of all people in knowing what's the best route.

[Emanuel A.]

Yes, of course. But we were talking about 60 fps on camera, following your own quote. ;-)

[Thom Steinhoff]

I'd imagine that the best way to shoot 1080p would be to shoot in 4k redcode then use redcine to downconvert to 1080p. The Red team has faith in the "4k to any flavor" method so I trust them of all people in knowing what's the best route.

I definately agree. The context, however, was about the best way to achieve 60fps in camera: 2K from a cropped sensor or 1080p RGB from the full sensor. The quality of 1080p RBG to on camera drives remains to be seen, so I am thinking living with the crop to get Redcode would be better as I'm not sure if 1080p is going to be as good on camera as it could be pumped out a high speed port--but the solution remains to be seen.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Ah my bad, I'm starting to tire out after reading random tech articles and such all day....

Hmmmm that is a tough one.....2k is higher resolution ofcourse, but 1080p will use the full 35mm frame size. I'll leave it to the Red team to give us guidance. And I'll also be waiting for that magical 2k 35mm frame size onboard trick Graeme forget to mention. :alien:

[Antoine Baumann]

Again, I have the feeling that I have heard that the RGB recording will be sort of unprocessed RGB, therefore giving a lot of control for post production (but sure not as much as the RAW path).

antoine.

[Thom Steinhoff]

Again, I have the feeling that I have heard that the RGB recording will be sort of unprocessed RGB, therefore giving a lot of control for post production (but sure not as much as the RAW path).

antoine.

If that's the case, I would think it would only go out the digital ports to a monster deck or Raid array but all will be known at NAB!

[david farland]

Details of dreams for NAB as follows....

1. REDCODE API in at least one of the big NLE’s to be able to edit native REDCODE…..wow ho!!

Hopefully all your offline low-rez edits/effects can get conformed to your online output within that NLE.


2. Good RPL tool that supports most of the EDL/XML/AAF

This means more NLE’s export standards and more offline NLE edit functions (hopefully) get conformed to the REDCODE online output.


3. Onboard REDCODED 2K@120fps

Hoping to get windowed REDRAW 2K@120 fps (RedCode in camera) via REDRAM for slo-mo, etc…..this would be fantastic.

Presently the confirmed 2K/1080p choices out of the camera are:

1. Scaled RAW 2K@120fps via 10gig fibre port…Note: it’s only 380MB/sec! No huge RAID needed here!

2. Windowed REDRAW 2K/1080p @ 60fps (RedCode in camera) via RED Storage devices.

3. Scaled RGB 1080p @ 60fps (RedCode in camera) via RED Storage devices.

4. Scaled RGB 1080p @ 30fps (Compressed? in camera) via dual HD-SDI.



4. Ability to backup REDRAM/FLASH to REDDRIVE.

Stuart mentioned that REDDRIVE could be configured to RAID 1.
Which means it's a more secure form of backup only device!

Say you record to REDRAM or REDFLASH.

You may (or may not) want to keep the REDDRIVE on the camera continuously, only when you’re backing up the RED RAM/FLASH, doesn’t matter, but you’d like to backup to the REDDRIVE for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, if the RED camera can act as host to all drives when backing up, it means I don't need to purchase any 3rd party hardware to have a reasonably secure backup system.

This is good for us and RED, as it means I don't purchase additional 3rd party kit for backup, only additional REDDRIVES.

Regarding the next reason is I’m assuming I can playback through the camera, any footage from any RED storage module.
If my footage has been backed up to the laptop, then playback becomes a problem.
If I can backup to the REDDRIVE, I can then play of all my saved footage back out through the camera.

The fallback option here would be to record to REDFLASH/RAM, copy to laptop, and then copy up to REDDRIVE and playback on camera.
This is if the RED camera can’t act as host to source and destination drives when backing up.
Another nice to have, is to hook up 3rd party external raids directly to RED camera (host).


Cheers,
Dave

[Rob Lohman]

I really can't wait till may

NAB is in *APRIL*, not May!

[Don Woods]

even better... Sorry a few to many beers last night. Never drunk post..

[Karl H]

I was told by graeme, that the bottleneck for FPS was the processor, not the drive.

so I dont think REDRAM is going to help get better frame rates. In theory Redraid could handle 2K @120fps, its the cpu that cant AFAIK.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.

I think the jury is still out on that one... You can shoot 1920x1080 sampled from the entire 4K window area and encode to RGB on camera. To stretch that a bit more and encode at 2K doesn't seem like that big of a reach. Although, if it's just outside of the camera's processing capabilities, then so be it.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I think the jury is still out on that one... You can shoot 1920x1080 sampled from the entire 4K window area and encode to 2K RGB on camera. To stretch that a bit more and encode at 2K doesn't seem like that big of a reach. Although, if it's just outside of the camera's processing capabilities, then so be it.

All I can do is hope. :biggrin:

[Gordon Prince]

NAB is in *APRIL*, not May!I believe he wants to say when he may receive his camera or for the first cameras delivery.

[MikeCurtis]

Thom - my understanding is that the 1080pRGB is unprocessed - all that has happened is a demosaic and downsample - so that should give you plenty of room to color manipulate in post. While RGB is three channels of data to record not just RAW's one, it is about 1/4 the pixels, so the math works out that you should be able to have lots of datarate available to create a high quality image. In my mind, I'm confident that for speeds over 30p, 1080pRGB will be the way to go to maintain your depth of field and get a high quality image. That said, this might be a problem for early adopters (1-100 serial #s) until RGB gets all worked out.

-mike

[zak forrest]

I'm sure the Red team wants the new footage to be shown at NAB to be a suprise, but is it possible to get a general sort of hint as to what kind of lighting / no lighting situations the footage has been shot in? my big hope for NAB is to see some footage like: wide open, low (natural) light.

[Andrew Benz]

I'm sure the Red team wants the new footage to be shown at NAB to be a suprise, but is it possible to get a general sort of hint as to what kind of lighting / no lighting situations the footage has been shot in? my big hope for NAB is to see some footage like: wide open, low (natural) light.

Remember the funny car footage they hinted at with frankie? That was natural light...:devil:

[Joel Kaye]

Remeber the funny car footage they hinted at


Hmm... half of video is audio. We might be able to hear our way to the RED booth.

[Andrew Benz]

Hmm... half of video is audio. We might be able to hear our way to the RED booth.

Haha... Joel, you are so right, it should be thunderous in more ways than one, it also seems I need to learn to spell. :bye2:

[Michael Hastings]

Any opinions on how 1080p for high speed shooting would mix with 4K Redcode?


Thom - my understanding is that the 1080pRGB is unprocessed - all that has happened is a demosaic and downsample - so that should give you plenty of room to color manipulate in post. While RGB is three channels of data to record not just RAW's one, it is about 1/4 the pixels, so the math works out that you should be able to have lots of datarate available to create a high quality image. In my mind, I'm confident that for speeds over 30p, 1080pRGB will be the way to go to maintain your depth of field and get a high quality image. That said, this might be a problem for early adopters (1-100 serial #s) until RGB gets all worked out.

-mike

[donatello b]

"Any opinions on how 1080p for high speed shooting would mix with 4K Redcode?"

guessing - depends on if the project is mastered 4k or HD and/or if it is for film or HD release and/or if viewing is on 40 ft screen or 40inch monitor ...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I would say that if you shoot 1080p60 derived from the 4K frame and then constructed your entire project at 1080p/2K from other footage derived from 4K, it will all match and look beautiful.

If you're trying to cut the 1080p footage with other shots at 4K, it's going to show. Or at least will show in a quality film-out or 4K projection. If you're delivering to HD or 2K, I doubt anyone will notice.

[Thom Steinhoff]

Thom - my understanding is that the 1080pRGB is unprocessed - all that has happened is a demosaic and downsample - so that should give you plenty of room to color manipulate in post. While RGB is three channels of data to record not just RAW's one, it is about 1/4 the pixels, so the math works out that you should be able to have lots of datarate available to create a high quality image. In my mind, I'm confident that for speeds over 30p, 1080pRGB will be the way to go to maintain your depth of field and get a high quality image. That said, this might be a problem for early adopters (1-100 serial #s) until RGB gets all worked out.

-mike

Mike,

Based on your math do you think 60fps RGB 1080p with no compression should be able to be streamed to the Red Ram or Red Disk with no problem?

720p to 120fps? If so, this is amazing!

As a 500+ serial number I should have this feature from day one!

Thom

[Gbabymogul]

They're blocking off the street in front of the convention center for this...http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/448_1174077914.jpg

Remember they said they were going to blow some fresh air ? Hold on to your pocket protectors.


:Guinness:

[Chris Forbes]

Would love to hear how the Red Raid is coming. That will be as magical as the Camera.

[david farland]

....can I playback through the camera, any footage from any RED storage module.
If my footage has been backed up to the laptop, then playback becomes a problem.
If I can backup to the REDDRIVE, I can then play of all my saved footage back out through the camera.
....



Can I playback footage throught the camera?

Was raised again on CML

Cheers,

[Gunleik Groven]

This kind of a dealbreaker or dealmaker issue in some circumstances, as I guess we all know...

Gunleik

[zak forrest]

Remember the funny car footage they hinted at with frankie? That was natural light...:devil:

no, what is that again?

also whatever this thing is, is it in LOW light? or just natural light?


i am hoping to see some footage at NAB where they pushed the camera to its limits in some dim situations.

[jbeale]

Can I playback footage through the camera? from CML [...]
Obviously a desirable feature. It does seem like the workflow adapts to the tools at hand, though... not easy to playback immediately if you were shooting film. Except through a separate video tap system, which you could do with Red a few different ways as well.

[Andrew Benz]

no, what is that again?

also whatever this thing is, is it in LOW light? or just natural light?


i am hoping to see some footage at NAB where they pushed the camera to its limits in some dim situations.

Hi Zak,

Hope that you are well, love those early reservation numbers! Now, I am talking about the shoot at Pomona, when Jarred, Ted, Jim and ( I do not know the other guys name-- very sorry), took frankie out to shoot the Oakley Time Bomb whippin' ass and ending a seven year drought to win the funny car championship while using the 300mm RED prime. Here is the thread---please enjoy
http://http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=578

[Jannard]

All of the footage we plan to show will be shot on one of the RED ONE prototypes (not Frankie). All footage will be shot REDCODE RAW.

Jim

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/9_1174450172.jpg

[Clay Morrison]

Simply gorgeous. I can't wait to hold one for myself! Thanks Jim.

[Brook Willard]

New picture! New picture! Oh, god!

[blows it up in Photoshop, looks for details]

1: How can somebody be so angry looking while holding such a camera? Cheer up, Jarred.
2: I guess the top mounting point mystery is solved. The mounting points appear to face forwards and backwards instead of towards the side as they used to.
3: Just how much of an Oakley discount did you give that man?
4: Two USB ports below the HDMI? Where'd SD go?
5: Which is Boris, which is Natasha?

[Sean Michael Johnston]

Its nice to finally see a RED pic with a human scale factor.
Thanks!
I was wondering if there will be any kind of environmental (dust) seals over the connectors? And/Or any seals els-ware to protect the innards?

[JVB]

I think he may be tired

[Jannard]

"Boris" is black and "Natasha" is silver... naturally. :-)

Jim

[Andrew Benz]

All of the footage we plan to show will be shot on one of the RED ONE prototypes (not Frankie). All footage will be shot REDCODE RAW.

Jim



Thank you for the correction Jim, I was under the wrong assumption. Sorry Zak.
BTW great pic (insert expletives and adjectives here) and thank you Jim for not going completely dark!

Cheers

Benz

[jbeale]

...any kind of environmental (dust) seals over the connectors? And/Or any seals els-ware to protect the innards?
Caps on unused connectors seem good although they get lost instantly without a tether, and with a tether they flap and bang around, get tangled and in the way. Maybe some kind of dust shield, raincoat or all-weather jacket would be a nice accessory in the field.

As far as environmental sealing, I believe those are open grille vents I see along the bottom edge for ventilation. Jim had mentioned a heat issue at one point. If that 's the reason for the vents, then it may not be possible to really seal it, unless there is some other provision for cooling.

[Jannard]

The electronics are sealed separately from the open area on the bottom of the camera.

Jim

[Eric MacIver]

No bridge support on that 300mm? :)

[Stephen Williams]

No bridge support on that 300mm? :)

Hi,

My thoughts exactly.

Stephen

[Rogelio Salinas]

A great surprise would be if at NAB, the RED team showed some of the new footage and it opens with some brilliantly shot REDCODE RAW 4K footage in 60P. Now that would be a surprise and the answer to many reservation holders prayers.

[Brook Willard]

Oh man, more of the 60p thing. :laugh:

[Rogelio Salinas]

Oh man, more of the 60p thing. :laugh:

There should be a whole forum dedicated to 60P ;)

[Mike the beginner]

A great surprise would be if at NAB, the RED team showed some of the new footage and it opens with some brilliantly shot REDCODE RAW 4K footage in 60P. Now that would be a surprise and the answer to many reservation holders prayers.



I hope they just manage to bring a fully working red one:sarcasm:

[Barend Onneweer]

I hope they just manage to bring a fully working red one:sarcasm:

I hope they manage to bring Kelly... :usd:

[Rob Lohman]

No worries there Barend ;)

[Sora Tendo]

Are there any details on how reservations are going to be held at NAB?

1. Is it going to be a $1000 deposit?

2. Do I pay with credit card or check?

3. Any specific day and/or where (i.e. exhibition booth) will reservations take place?

Thanks for your time. I'm mostly going to NAB to reserve a RED, so any information would be helpful.

[Brook Willard]

RED booth, Monday morning, firm orders, woowoo!

[Rodrigo Lizana]

A great surprise would be if at NAB, the RED team showed some of the new footage and it opens with some brilliantly shot REDCODE RAW 4K footage in 60P. Now that would be a surprise and the answer to many reservation holders prayers.

Amen !!!

[Jannard]

We will take orders with fully refundable deposits at NAB and online beginning when the doors open on Monday. We haven't decided yet the percentage of the total that the deposit will be, but will post prior to NAB.

Jim

[Michael Brennan]

Jim,

I don't fancy being responsible for counting the Red demo cameras at the end each day at NAB:)

How about a seperate area for a timed ticket deal so fans can get to handle RED for a minute or so without needing to be built like a quarterback to break through the throng?



Mike

[Andrew Benz]

I have a question. I have a feeling RED may introduce product(s) that we are completely unaware of (but love to speculate-- RED primes?, usb controller/or remote for stop motion/full camera control/luts, etc.) but would love to put a deposit down to secure our place. Will REDCORE members have a chance to get first dibs or is it refresh city on the RED website to our place for the product(s)? Which with 14 employees I know things are tight, this not a whine but a what if... thank you.

[Jannard]

All orders taken from the beginning of NAB, whether at the show or online, will be handled by the time they are taken. No serial numbers will be assigned.

Priority will be given to reservation holders for any newly announced accessories.

Jim

[Andrew Benz]

Priority will be given to reservation holders for any newly announced accessories.

Jim

Jim this what I had suspected, thank you very much for the confirmation. I just wish I could be in Las Vegas to help you guys with the onslaught and meet the many members of this board. But I am very happy to have the work.

[planet e]

surprises. i looove surprises.

for those of us who can't make NAB--i'm working too--will there be someone minding the store, so that we can order more goodies? when i made my 2nd reservation in the open reservation window, i had to do most of the communication via e-mail, because the RED voice mail was full. will one of the 14 employees still be able to be as speedy with the trigger finger as the last time?

when you were just a lad, did you ever dream that so many people would be lining up to fling large sums of money at you?

[Jared VanLeuven]

All orders taken from the beginning of NAB, whether at the show or online, will be handled by the time they are taken. No serial numbers will be assigned.

Priority will be given to reservation holders for any newly announced accessories.

Jim

Jim, my apologies for being obtuse, but gotta ask. For reservation holders, how exactly does the accessories (e.g. the current price-list) purchase work? Do we need to put in our order at NAB, or when we receive our 30-days-out notification? I want to keep my ducks all in a nice row, tx!

[Manfred Lopez]

Okay, I couldn't resist again... 100th response. Do I get a special price?

[Brook Willard]

Okay, I couldn't resist again... 100th response. Do I get a special price?

Yep, $17,500.

[Joel Kaye]

Jim, my apologies for being obtuse, but gotta ask. For reservation holders, how exactly does the accessories (e.g. the current price-list) purchase work? Do we need to put in our order at NAB, or when we receive our 30-days-out notification? I want to keep my ducks all in a nice row, tx!

When your camera is ready you have 30 days to pay. You'll order your accessories somewhere in that time frame, but probably when you are notified your camera is ready.

[Adam C Lubkin]

When your camera is ready you have 30 days to pay. You'll order your accessories somewhere in that time frame, but probably when you are notified your camera is ready.

joelnet, can you link to where you got this information? I've seen Jim's post on the 30 days, but not the part about the accessories. Seems like a good way to go, though.

[Brook Willard]

The accessories [with some exceptions... RAW Data port and perhaps some storage options...] will be available when the camera ships. At that point it will be a simple purchase, no reservations. You shouldn't have to "reserve" a handle or rail or anything. Just call, place your order and watch the mail.

This is all AFAIK. The rate at which accessories are available is what's really up in the air.

[Sean]

Tell ya what I would love. A PDF of the Red Camera / RedCine manual available for download once the first orders start being filled. Because even though we are only 562nd in line, it would be so great to be able to read up and research the ins and outs of the camera and workflow so we can hit the ground running when our camera finally does come up. I imagine the manuals will be PDF anyhow?

[Brook Willard]

Having manuals available online is pretty standard for camera companies these days. I'd hope RED follows suit.

[Chris Gearhart]

I really don't want to continously connect and disconnect a ram drive to dump it (like a digital colostomy bag)

Now that's a fantastic analogy.

I guess P2 is just like taking a dump, then. :biggrin:

[Curran Giddens]

The accessories [with some exceptions... RAW Data port and perhaps some storage options...] will be available when the camera ships.

Do you think the RAW Data port will be ready by the time #561 ships? I would rather get the port installed before my camera ships, but not if I have to wait more then a couple weeks for the part to be finished. I plan to rent out my camera at first, and those couple weeks are when my camera will be in highest demand.

The RAW Data port is looking more and more like a bad option for me, especially since I get the feeling that RED has given up on the RED-RAID.

[Brook Willard]

I'd only be guessing. Ship dates likely won't be announced until parts are shipping.

[Curran Giddens]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=16804&postcount=26


If you add the RAW PORT for uncompressed 4K and 4K+ recording, then you are also looking at hooking it up to a $100K+ price range 4K / 4K+ capable DDR.

I'm hoping Stuart forgot to mention: "...or waiting for the affordable RED-RAID at the end of the year."

I hope we will at least know one way or the other if RED is still planning on the RED-RAID before my number comes up. I just don't trust any other company then RED to sell me an affordable, 4K / 4K+ capable RAID, for recording the higher frame rates of the RAW port.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I hope we will at least know one way or the other if RED is still planning on the RED-RAID before my number comes up. I just don't trust any other company then RED to sell me an affordable, 4K / 4K+ capable RAID, for recording the higher frame rates of the RAW port.

I would imagine that RED will at least provide a list of hardware so you can build your own. The real stumbling block is going to be the 10G fiber interface for the system if it becomes a build yourself solution.

Anyway, for as much overcranked footage as you intend to shoot (seems like a lot from your posts), are you sure something like a Phantom HD wouldn't be a better match? Or sticking with film? A lot of us here are hoping to have access to the 2K @ 120fps, but all things considered, 120fps isn't that fast. The cost of the RAW port along with a competent RAID and probably a companion server/workstation can go a long way toward leasing/buying a Phantom or processing film shot with a high-speed film camera.

[zak forrest]

is curran the only person in the world using the optical port? are you dead set on that or is there a possibility you will shoot redcode raw? why doyou want to be uncompressed to a raid again?

[Curran Giddens]

is curran the only person in the world using the optical port? are you dead set on that or is there a possibility you will shoot redcode raw? why doyou want to be uncompressed to a raid again?

2K @ 120fps mostly. I may be satisfied with 720p @ 120fps uprezzed in post if I can't get a 4k capable RAID with optical port, for recording the RAW data, for less then $40k.


Anyway, for as much overcranked footage as you intend to shoot (seems like a lot from your posts), are you sure something like a Phantom HD wouldn't be a better match? Or sticking with film? A lot of us here are hoping to have access to the 2K @ 120fps, but all things considered, 120fps isn't that fast. The cost of the RAW port along with a competent RAID and probably a companion server/workstation can go a long way toward leasing/buying a Phantom or processing film shot with a high-speed film camera.

I would use the RED-RAID for an online storage solution as well as for recording the RAW port (even if it is not intended for this purpose). 120fps is just fast enough and I'm sure that Phantom HD camera is too expensive (dare I ask how much?). Wasn't there some discussion back on dvxuser where we were estimating the RED-RAID to cost somewhere between $20k - $30k?

I can't be the only one interested in a high-performance online storage solution which happens to also be capable of recording all the high frame rates that the RED ONE offers.

[Joel Kaye]

joelnet, can you link to where you got this information? I've seen Jim's post on the 30 days, but not the part about the accessories. Seems like a good way to go, though.

I don't have the link but I do remember the 30 days. Why would accessories be different? Is anyone planning on buying the camera but waiting to take the free $2500 in accessories until 3 months later? If the accessory you want isn't ready at purchase time I'd assume you'll order it and it'll show up when it's ready.

Jim's been pretty straightforward that he's going to take care of the customer.

Seems like you're worried about something but I'm having a hard time conjuring up what that possibly could be.

[Adam C Lubkin]

No worries here. I had seen the 30 days reference as well, but not the other information in your post. That's why I asked for a link.