Storage 101...

[Jannard]

Drives are cheaper... Flash is better.

If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.

FLASH- we wanted to give our customers as many options as possible with regards to Flash. There are three types of Flash types for on-board recording. We will sell a RED branded version of each, but our system is open to third party vendors as long as they sell products that meet our specs. We will always try to be priced to compete.

CF (Compact Flash). With the sppeds and capacity increasing dramatically before our eyes, we see CF as an alternative in the near future so we are providing for it now. You will HAVE to carefully select CF that meets speed specs (we'll help you out) and select a "standard" quality setting to record 4k REDCODE RAW. But it will be possible by Summer or early Fall.

Express Card- same story as above, different format

SATA 1.8" drives. We had hoped that these would be ready by NAB, but they are delayed a few months. Nevertheless, we see this as the best alternative in the future so we are preparing for this formats eminent arrival.

64GB RED RAM- this is two 2.5" Flash drives housed in an off camera SATA housing, very similar to the RED DRIVE case. This is what we believe most Professionals will use because of the security and speed of the unit.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[PaulClements]

thnx Jim

[Alexander Nikishin]

It's awesome to have soo many options Jim, especially the fact that the CF format will allow for 3rd party cards, nice!

[Jarred Land]

you guys asked.. and Jim listened. The options for flash are of course great value, but the way RED is adapting to the best interests of the customer is the real revolution here...

[Steve Gibby]

I'll second that Jarred. Flexibility in recording options and technologies goes a long way in enabling the scalability and servicability of RED One for both cine-style ane EFP-style production. I'm way happy with all the recording options...

[Michael Ragen]

would we have to send the camera to the factory to switch between flash modules?

[Jannard]

The user can change the flash modules on the camera. We do recommend that a service center change the RAW Port.

Jim

[Manfred Lopez]

I am very impressed of the time and effort the Red Team is investing in explaining everything to us here on the forum. I am very grateful.

[Anders Holck]

Ok, I just read "*Factory installed option. Installation removes RED FLASH options from system configuration."
as you HAD to choose when you ordered the camera from the factory.
So it just means that, it's a larger surgery, and you could potentially mess up the camera if not done right.
Your reply here is much easier to understand correct, I think.

[Morning Glory]

uhhhh, sorry, heard a little, creepy kid voice in my head. eh-heh. anyway, does the Red Ram require a SATA flash module, or does it connect elsewhere?

[Jannard]

There is a SATA input on the camera designated for either RED DRIVE or RED RAM. This is separate from the on-board flash modules.

Jim

[Chris Kenny]

Can you guys support P2 as well? I really like buying my flash memory at 6x market price. :devil:

Seriously, it's great to see that Red understands the value of open standards, and doesn't view accessories as a way to extract exorbitant amounts of money from locked-in customers. This is one of the first cameras born out of an age of low-cost commodity digital technology. Other vendors might use the tech, but they've never picked up the philosophy. Or the pricing structure! Red totally gets this stuff.

[Morning Glory]

My first post and such a quick reply from our leader. Thank you so much Jim, with no question Red Ram it is, all the way. That was really not going to allow me to sleep, those small details are always the ones that can make one obsess. eh-heh.

And thank you Jim, for the storage 101. It was the only thing that I was not recieving directly from the price list. My night is complete.

As I have not yet taken the opportunity, a million thank you's from a die hard film snob who was waiting for this paticular revolution. You know what I really won't miss? the labs.


okay, okay, a film out, but that is a lot less to deal with, headache wise. :tongue:

[roryhinds]

Hi Jim

Awesome stuff, I can't wait to get #68 and shoot London.

What are the benefits of RED RAM?
What formats can it capture?
Frame rates?
Minutes stored?
What interface does it have to offload the data?

What are the timeline with the accessories?

Do you have a ship date for the first 100 cameras?

Thanks
Rory
http://www.minefilms.com

[Tom Lowe]

What kind of potential write speeds are we looking at with the Red Ram 64GB?

[Brook Willard]

The same as the RED DRIVE... at least as far as we're concerned. The camera can only compress so much REDCODE per second. Since 4K@30p is the max that the camera can compress to REDCODE RAW per second, any higher data rate possible with the RED RAM is moot.

[Pig]

Are the specs for CF known yet?
(Certainly a GREAT option to have on-board - AWESOME!)

[Mike Harrington]

is this the right kind of 1.8" sata flash drive?
http://sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478

supposed to come out this year and cost about $600

[Anders Holck]

Thats a pata drive not a sata drive.

[Don Woods]

Thanks Jim that was my next question

[Jannard]

The PATA flash is not fast enough...

Jim

[Gordon Prince]

CF (Compact Flash). With the sppeds and capacity increasing dramatically before our eyes, we see CF as an alternative in the near future so we are providing for it now. You will HAVE to carefully select CF that meets speed specs (we'll help you out) and select a "standard" quality setting to record 4k REDCODE RAW. But it will be possible by Summer or early Fall.Why so late? Isn't it possible before with the camera delivery?

[Trevor Meier]

A Stuart post hinted that you can configure the RED-DRIVE as RAID-0. Is this true? Security/Safety on a budget...

[Tom Lowe]

The same as the RED DRIVE... at least as far as we're concerned. The camera can only compress so much REDCODE per second. Since 4K@30p is the max that the camera can compress to REDCODE RAW per second, any higher data rate possible with the RED RAM is moot.

It's not moot, just as one example, if "lesser" compression schemes could be worked out for overcranked 4K footage. For example, just in theory, if Red RAM could record at 125MB/s, the processor might be able to compress 4k 48fps footage at a rate much higher than 27MB/s -- say, 100MB/s -- with no greater demand on the processor.

It's just a thought. Somehow, some way, someone is going to figure out how to use Flash memory to record overcranked 4k.... :weight_lift:

[Evin Grant]

Drives are cheaper... Flash is better.

If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.

CF (Compact Flash). But it will be possible by Summer or early Fall.

Express Card- same story as above, different format

SATA 1.8" drives. We had hoped that these would be ready by NAB, but they are delayed a few months.

64GB RED RAM- this is two 2.5" Flash drives housed in an off camera SATA housing, very similar to the RED DRIVE case. This is what we believe most Professionals will use because of the security and speed of the unit.
Hope this helps.

Jim

So is the only flash storage option available to the first 500 users the RedRAM?

[Gbabymogul]

If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.
JimHow is it comparable to the Viper flash? I've talked to some DP's about the use of them in exterior shoots with unpredictable weather, but RED flash it may be worth the extra lettuce...

Maybe I'll just use the Drive until I see where the flash bandwagon goes. Or rent the various flash units to determine which I like.

Thanks for the summary.

F**k this budget. My girlfriends going to hate this.


:Guinness:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Can you guys support P2 as well? I really like buying my flash memory at 6x market price. :devil:

Yes, I'd love to use those 8GB P2 cards that cost me roughly $148/GB! :angry01:

RED RAM is a freaking bargain compared to P2 media it's only $70/GB. I was planning on two RED DRIVES and perhaps one of the FLASH modules, but I think I'm going for a RED DRIVE and a RED RAM. Perhaps by August/September (when I guestimate I'll get my camera), they'll be able to bump the RED RAM capacity -- that would sure be nice too.

Anyway, I'm going to sell my HVX200 an P2 cards ASAP while the resale value is still there. Once people go to NAB and all the details are out, I think the market value of the HVX and a lot of prosumer gear (at least as far as indie guys and creative shooters are concerned) is going to fall in the toilet. A year ago I was excited having my new HVX... Today I look at it and I feel as if I got taken by a used care salesman.

[Tom Lowe]

I got rid of my HVX about two months ago. It was good for 720p, but now 720p is the new mini-DV.

[Alexander Nikishin]

A year ago I was excited having my new HVX... Today I look at it and I feel as if I got taken by a used care salesman.

lol, I know the feeling, then again, it has made me quite a bit of money and it gave me a toy to fall back on at all times, I'll always be thankful for the HVX with or without its flaws.

[Rodrigo Lizana]

64GB RED RAM- this is two 2.5" Flash drives housed in an off camera SATA housing, very similar to the RED DRIVE case. This is what we believe most Professionals will use because of the security and speed of the unit.

I have a couple of question before deciding what package do I need...

- Tell me if I´m wrong but you get something like 40 minutes of footage from the Red Ram 64 GB when shooting 4K redcode @ 24fps ?.

- Is Redcode going to be able to encode the full speed of the sensor 4K@60fps in the future into Red Ram or Red Drive ?.

- The photo adaptors are going to be PL to EF adaptors or a whole new mount that needs to get rid of the standard PL ?.

Thanks

[Steve Gibby]

A year ago I wrote one of the very first magazine reviews of the HVX (April - Studio Monthly). Now it seems like two or three years ago. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then!

On another note...I can't seem to get away from this forum, keyboard, and refresh button tonight! For hours now every time I hit refresh there are several new posts on multiple threads. How's a guy supposed to shut his computer down and go to bed when her's paranoid he might miss something?! I got this natural RED buzz going...and I'm liking it!

(Jarred hasn't updated the RED User clock for the California time change yesterday. My time on my post is an hour behind when I made it. It's 11:49 in California)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

lol, I know the feeling, then again, it has made me quite a bit of money and it gave me a toy to fall back on at all times, I'll always be thankful for the HVX with or without its flaws.

That's true.... The HVX did serve me farily well. Perhaps not as well as I had envisioned when I bought it, but all my complaints with it are mostly directed at P2 pricing and politics. I never cared for the ergonomics of the HVX (and the DVX I owned before it), but that was a small trade-off for the benefits these cameras offered over their competition at the time.

On the bright side, selling my HVX and P2 gear should give me enough to buy a nice tripod system or a new Mac Pro or whatever I decide to mark the funds for. :w00t:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

On another note...I can't seem to get away from this forum, keyboard, and refresh button tonight! For hours now every time I hit refresh there are several new posts on multiple threads. How's a guy supposed to shut his computer down and go to bed when her's paranoid he might miss something?! I got this natural RED buzz going...and I'm liking it!

I've had that exact same problem for the last 6 weeks or so... I'd call it an addiction, but it's probably lack of any real work to do other than babysitting a render farm all day long.

[Chris Kenny]

- The photo adaptors are going to be PL to EF adaptors or a whole new mount that needs to get rid of the standard PL ?.


They'd have to be whole new mounts, as Canon FD and Nikon F have a shorter flange focal distance than PL.

[Steve Gibby]

I've had that exact same problem for the last 6 weeks or so... I'd call it an addiction, but it's probably lack of any real work to do other than babysitting a render farm all day long.

You've heard of Panama Red...well I think this high/addiction is Lake Forest RED. Good stuff braddah...

[jeffry alan]

(bump from the back of the bus to the front for the EFP folks)

RED RAM for stability or RED DRIVE for economy?

J*

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

This probably is a really dumb question, but bear with me, as I don't know so much about technics (and yes, someone who doesn't know so much about technics shouldn't have a RED camera, but don't worry, I can't pay one, but I support RED, thus my staying here):

can the 320 gigabyte RED DRIVE be used with a HVX?

I know the answer is a very probably 'no', but still, you never know, doesn't hurt to ask.

Thanks,

[Chris Kenny]

can the 320 gigabyte RED DRIVE be used with a HVX?


No. A FireStore or similar has hardware/software in it that knows how to take a DV or DVCPRO HD stream coming in over FireWire and write it to disk. The Red Drive doesn't know how to do this, and doesn't even have a FireWire port (it uses SATA, via a custom connector).

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

No. A FireStore or similar has hardware/software in it that knows how to take a DV or DVCPRO HD stream coming in over FireWire and write it to disk. The Red Drive doesn't know how to do this, and doesn't even have a FireWire port (it uses SATA, via a custom connector).


Thanks!

[Alexander Nikishin]

Shouldn't this thread be a sticky?

[Stuart English]

Correction. RED-DRIVE does have FireWire - both Firewire 800 and 400 ports. Its just not designed to work as a standalone recorder with an IEEE-1394 source.

[Kenn Christenson]

Drives are cheaper... Flash is better.

If you ask any questions about shock ratings, weather resistance or security, skip right to Flash and do not use Drives. If you are CAREFUL and on a budget, Drives can serve you well.

FLASH- we wanted to give our customers as many options as possible with regards to Flash. There are three types of Flash types for on-board recording. We will sell a RED branded version of each, but our system is open to third party vendors as long as they sell products that meet our specs. We will always try to be priced to compete.

CF (Compact Flash). With the sppeds and capacity increasing dramatically before our eyes, we see CF as an alternative in the near future so we are providing for it now. You will HAVE to carefully select CF that meets speed specs (we'll help you out) and select a "standard" quality setting to record 4k REDCODE RAW. But it will be possible by Summer or early Fall.

Express Card- same story as above, different format

SATA 1.8" drives. We had hoped that these would be ready by NAB, but they are delayed a few months. Nevertheless, we see this as the best alternative in the future so we are preparing for this formats eminent arrival.

64GB RED RAM- this is two 2.5" Flash drives housed in an off camera SATA housing, very similar to the RED DRIVE case. This is what we believe most Professionals will use because of the security and speed of the unit.

Hope this helps.

Jim
So, how careful do you have to be with the drives? I was thinking I might have the chance to mount a Red in an F-15 cockpit (to be honest, I was thinking Red Ram would be a better choice for this.)

[Peter Karlsson]

It will be VERY exciting to see what happens to SSD drives in the future.. Samsung released this today...

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070327_0000332936

[Trevor Meier]

That is good news... 45 MB/s write in a single 1.8", 64GB package. This is essentially the same specs as the RED-RAM...

Assuming the price for a drive like this isn't ludicrous, any reason not to choose this over a RED-RAM? A fraction of the cost, similar specs, on-camera (no additional 'mag' attachment required)...

[Yaque Silva-Doyle]

What is the viability of using a G-raid Mini with SATA connectors as your storage medium for the extremely budget conscious?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It will be VERY exciting to see what happens to SSD drives in the future.. Samsung released this today...

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070327_0000332936

Cool... They're a couple months ahead of schedule it seems. Probably because several others are shipping 32GB now or real soon and Samsung wants to stay ahead. Not to mention, they're currently the leading producer of NAND FLASH chips anyway.

[tj williams]

I still would like to know what really careful means as regards the RED drives.
what does it take to make the drives drop out of recording or gawd forbid get damaged.


Can I:
1. drop the camera while it's running a distance of 3 feet falling flat.
2. bump the camera against the wall while following the senator down the hall
3. mount the camera in the F15 if they just don't use the afterburners.
4. be jostled by a crowd of bystanders or extras while hand held
5. mount the camera on our crane and boom up or down very fast
6. swish pan the camera
7. make a slow movement across a landscape while on sticks
8. no movement is allowed while the RED drive light is on.

[Brook Willard]

Can I:
1. drop the camera while it's running a distance of 3 feet falling flat.
2. bump the camera against the wall while following the senator down the hall
3. mount the camera in the F15 if they just don't use the afterburners.
4. be jostled by a crowd of bystanders or extras while hand held
5. mount the camera on our crane and boom up or down very fast
6. swish pan the camera
7. make a slow movement across a landscape while on sticks
8. no movement is allowed while the RED drive light is on.
1: There's a good chance a hard drive will crack. Or a lens.
2. I expect that'll be fine.
3. Hard Drives don't like rapid altitude changes or high G-loading. Depending on the pressurization, you're probably SOL.
4. If my iPod can reload its buffer while I'm running, I imagine the RED DRIVE could handle this.
5. Probably.
6. Certainly.
7. Dragging the sticks?
8. Cameras are meant to be moved.

All just guesses.

[Emery Wells]

Just announced: Samsung 64GB Solid State drive in 2nd quarter

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12556.html

'The 64 GB unit can read 64 MB/S, write 45 MB/s, and consumes just half a Watt when operating (one tenth of a Watt when idle). '

[Hrvoje Simic]

2. bump the camera against the wall while following the senator down the hall


I remember taking crap with Firestores on JVC 5100's some years ago - in a same situation. Except it was congressman instead of a senator.

Although no Red of mine will ever see a politician, I guess it will be close to many walls...

[Jarred Land]

when you think of the red drives think of a laptop.. you can bump it, shake it, walk with it, and if your lucky drop it once or twice with no damage.. laptop drives have come along way in being pretty solid.. but the new breed of solid state devices are gonna eventually take over.

Red is just leaving the options open.. with so much incredible stuff coming from multiple companies... it would be silly to lock to one format.

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yep.
It will be interesting to check out the solid state best buy options...CF vs Samsung's NAND. So far Samsung is in the lead.

[Michael Hastings]

I think you guys are getting a little too concerned about the fragility of these drives. Ikegami has been using the same 2.5" drives for 8 years now and the drives just keep getting better and tougher. On the Ikegami the drive case has little rubber shock mounts which make it even tougher. I can't imagine that RED hasn't done the same thing - it's about 40 cents worth of rubber.

Secondly, compared to MPEG tape recording, I am pretty sure it is more resistant to G problems. We did a shoot with the Sony Z1 where we were simulating a car driving into a canal. I did a fast walk to the edge and did an arm movement as if it was going over and just that arm movement was enough to cause the HDV to freeze a frame. Tried it 5 times and it did it everytime. I know I could have done a lot more with my Ikegami without causing any problem. I have only had the Ikegamis for a year (bought them government surplus) and haven't really done much abuse testing but they seem pretty darn tough.

Obviously, if you know it is both mission critical and an abusive situation - memory based media is the best - but I wouldn't worry about the harddrives for normal field shooting. You'll find it is a relief not to worry about moisture on the heads, dust, etc. that you did with tape.


I still would like to know what really careful means as regards the RED drives.
what does it take to make the drives drop out of recording or gawd forbid get damaged.

As far as movement while recording I wouldn't worry about walking, jogging, etc. while recording. Maybe hard running, jumping would be risky but I think you would be surprised at how few g's you can actually generate without actually banging the camera/drive itself against a hard object. Your body is a fairly good shock absorber.


Can I:
1. drop the camera while it's running a distance of 3 feet falling flat.
2. bump the camera against the wall while following the senator down the hall
3. mount the camera in the F15 if they just don't use the afterburners.
4. be jostled by a crowd of bystanders or extras while hand held
5. mount the camera on our crane and boom up or down very fast
6. swish pan the camera
7. make a slow movement across a landscape while on sticks
8. no movement is allowed while the RED drive light is on.

[Nick Shaw]

when you think of the red drives think of a laptop.. you can bump it, shake it, walk with it, and if your lucky drop it once or twice with no damage.

Might the RED-DRIVE have a sudden motion sensor, like Apple laptops do, which parks the drive heads if it is moved suddenly? Hopefully there would be enough RAM cache that for a small bump the heads could then un-park and continue recording without dropping frames.

[jbeale]

Might the RED-DRIVE have a sudden motion sensor, like Apple laptops do, which parks the drive heads if it is moved suddenly? Hopefully there would be enough RAM cache that for a small bump the heads could then un-park and continue recording without dropping frames.

It's a good thought but unless that feature is already in the drive itself, I wonder if that would be a significant development effort that would push out delivery and up the price.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Many/most portable market drives these days have motion and shock sensors inside them. I have no idea how effective they are or if there is any true benefit. Seems to me that dropping a drive is a good way to do damage, regardless of whether or not the heads are parked or if it's on or off.

[Chris Gearhart]

just that arm movement was enough to cause the HDV to freeze a frame.

Maybe you're right, although I wonder if that is a tape/G-force issue, or if it's how HDV does compression: it can't handle it when lots of pixels change from one frame to the next. And that's why we're all not using HDV. I get the point, though, and it's a good one. Jim has to tell people not to use the drive if they are at all concerned about it. But as a practical matter the drives will be perfect for most uses.

[Michael Hastings]

I think it is both, in that I think if I shot in DV mode it wouldn't have happened, as I have shot similar things many times and never seen that glitch but conversely I don't think it is just too many changing pixels since I can move it quickly past complex subjects (e.g. driving by trees or a fence in a car) and it will degrade or even go to visible squares but it doesn't just freeze.


Maybe you're right, although I wonder if that is a tape/G-force issue, or if it's how HDV does compression: it can't handle it when lots of pixels change from one frame to the next. And that's why we're all not using HDV. I get the point, though, and it's a good one. Jim has to tell people not to use the drive if they are at all concerned about it. But as a practical matter the drives will be perfect for most uses.

[Chris Gearhart]

Interesting. Maybe the compression algorithm will account for more horizontal pixel changes (pans) than it will vertical (16:9 aspect).

Anyway, sorry. Drifting off topic, here.

[icecold]

Correction. RED-DRIVE does have FireWire - both Firewire 800 and 400 ports. Its just not designed to work as a standalone recorder with an IEEE-1394 source.

Does this mean that the Red-Drive has to be connected via eSATA to the REDCAM and the Firewire ports are there for offload the data to any other storage device for Backup or Copy?

[Curran Giddens]

This is correct. However, I should point out that the eSATA cable from the RED ONE to the RED-DRIVE is proprietary. You will also need to use a computer to offload the data via Firewire from the RED-DRIVE to another storage device.

[Rainer Fritz]

how will the red ram look like? how will it mounted? same as the red drive? which interfaces does it has? would be fine to has a design like a filmroll...

[Anders Holck]

Connector "B" on the diagram here (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1119) is the Red Drive interconnect.
It's a proprietary connector (both on the camera and the Red Drive) that contains wires for both eSata and power.

The camera doesn't have firewire ports, so the ports on the Red Drive are for connecting to a computer. The drive itself will not work as a host, so it will have to be connected to a host, like a computer, to be offloaded.

[icecold]

Thx for that.

And what about RED-RAM ... works like the same? .... It also has Firewire ports? or USB 2.0?
Well that is what it looks like in this Workflow-Diagram Michael Morlan did some time ago
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19254&postcount=144

[Anders Holck]

The indications are that Red-ram is "simply" a Red-drive with 2 x 2.5" SSD's, instead of the 2 x 2.5" Harddrives.
Only the Red guys know of cause...

If the 64 MB/s transfer rate of the 32GB 2.5" SSD holds true, the red-ram will be pretty damn fast to offload over the esata bus...

[Jarred Land]

firewire ports are for offloading use only, the SATA cable from the camera is the only one that connects to the drive in shooting mode.

when you take the drive off the camera, the RED-DRIVE functions like a normal external hard drive via the firewire.

[Tonaci Tran]

can the sata port also be used for faster offloading? or is offloading via firewire only?

[Rainer Fritz]

firewire 800 would be great for offloading

[Jarred Land]

the esata port on the drive is also proprietary, so you cant just hook it up to a ESATA port. You could probably concoct a cable to do the duty, but With it being a 2.5" raid and over firewire 800, you wont be gaining that much speed over sata.

[Tonaci Tran]

thanks for the clarification. to think NAB is only a week away.

[Joe Carney]

Most Windows PCs don't have firewire 800, but there are Expresscards and PCIe cards available.
Many of the new desktops are coming with eSATA ports. Would be a shame not to be able to use them.

[Paul Leeming]

I'll second that zeke, given that the RedDrive is eSATA (even if it's a proprietary connector) it should be a no-brainer to ship with the option simply to hook it to an eSATA (or normal SATA) port for PCs. A cheap cable converter wouldn't be too hard to include would it, given that around 95% of the world's computers are PC based?

[Anders Holck]

There is no doubt that bus powered 1394b is the most robust and elegant solution, especially in the field. It sure will be interesting to get more details later this month.

[Kyle Spicer]

Question on the Red Drive (Dual 160GB). These are standard Laptop HD's (perpendicular? and probably Segate?) so we know they are pretty reliable, but what about fragmenting? Is there going to be software in the camera that will allow us to re-format the drives on the go. I know you can probably delete clips, but just like a normal HD anytime you delete something it leaves those sectors empty until you have a file that can fit in the space or defragment it. Also if you allow full format any sectors that have gone bad or suspected bad will be placed in tables (so the drive wont access these sectors and create more bad sectors).
I know all of this can be done once hooked up to any computer, but it may have an advantage in the field do be able to be done thru the camera. There may be an option for quick format, even though that wouldn't be the ideal situation it has its advantages (time).

[tj williams]

Seems like the camera is really a computer in a different box. Would be truly strange if the drives couldn't be formatted. I would think formatting before each use, after recording and media managine ie deleting files transferring files etc.
Is that too conservative?

[donatello b]

i don't see the RED as a computer ... IMO format/defrag drives on laptop/desktop ...
i don't think there has been any confirmation if you can delete clips using camera ???
i see the drives/flash more as a film mag ... shoot .. make a mistake - next take ...

[tj williams]

soon we'll know?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The ability to review and delete clips on camera came up a while ago, but it didn't sound like that would be a feature. In the case of RED DRIVE, this can lead to fragmentation as mentioned a few posts back. With the solid state options, seek and initiation times are much faster and fragmentation wouldn't be as much of an issue (theoretically). However, keeping all recording as a linear process would make the most sense from a reliability point of view.

Like donatello said, treat your onboard recording device as a film mag. You shoot and shoot and do whatever until it's full or you're done filling it. Then you can transfer your footage off, wipe the drive and start again.

In the early days of working with P2 on my HVX200, I thought it was really cool how I could review right there on camera and delete or copy or whatever. I soon discovered this was pointless and even caused problems at times. Better to just shoot and deal with everything in post rather than try and sort it out on set through the camera. This isn't still photography where you're reviewing individual images. This is cinema.

[Mike Zinner]

Jeff,

the main difference to shooting your HVX compared to shooting with the Red One will be that you will need to pull focus manually (if you are not using a P+S or RedRock thing). We got ourself a Mini35 for the XLH1 to train for the Red One and even after weeks of training only 50% of the shots were usable, the rest of the shots did not have a perfect focus. Ok, we did a lot of dolly shots and stuff, but the fact remains that it is far from trivial to get the focus right.

So not having the possibility to review the best takes on set is a rather hard limitation. You never know if you really got it right.

The solution we found is to hook up a full resolution Marshall field monitor via HD-SDI and have a dedicated person watching for nothing but focus. But this clearly doesn't work in all situations and is impossible for 4k.

But let's wait till NAB to see what the Red team comes up with!
Mike

[Anders Holck]

So not having the possibility to review the best takes on set is a rather hard limitation. You never know if you really got it right.

Playback IS built in. That's confirmed. So you should be able to review your clips perfectly.

The unknown is, if there will be a delete function in camera.
It sure is possible to enable at later point, if they find out during actual testing, that fragmentation isn't a problem, especially on SSD devices.