Product improvements since NAB 2006

[Stuart English]

At NAB last year, we described

a) a camera with an internal compression scheme that maxed out at 2K.
b) a battery pack that was internal to the camera, therefore of limited capacity
c) a single 2.5" disk based digital magazine also internal to the camera.
d) a small, diagonal flip out LCD unit on the camera body.
e) a NLE based post production path that required RED codec specific NLE support.


A year later, thanks to NAB feedback and ongoing technical discovery, we have a much higher specification system -

a) a 4K resolution internal compression scheme.
b) an affordable 140 Wh battery pack capable of driving the camera and multiple accessories.
c) two digital magazines, RAID 0 and RAID 1 capable, based on hard disk or flash memory.
d) Internal recording options based on standard off-the shelf memory such as CF, Express Card etc.
e) a large 5.6" diagonal sunlight readable LCD unit mounting anywhere you need it and remoteable from the camera body up to 10 ft for steadyicam applications.
f) the world's finest electronic viewfinder. And for under $3,000.
g) REDCINE. Free pre-editorial software so any existing NLE can use content created by RED ONE.


Bottom line - Change is good. Although our costs and hence camera package price are a bit higher than we anticipated at NAB 2006, the product value has gone WAY up! And if you take the $2,500 credit for reservation holders into account, even the pricing is pretty close to the original $17,500, but you are getting a much more capable camera that even we could have anticipated last NAB.

[Tonaci Tran]

Thanks Stewart. Absolutely incredible.

[S. Um]

Thanks for pointing out the differences. I completely agree that the improvements more than offset the slightly higher price.

[PaulClements]

Good points Stuart.

However...

The price ISN'T actually higher anyway. Initially the camera was said to ship with Red, LCD and Battery according to the stuff linked earlier. The cost of the LCD would be $1200 if you deduct the two cables which were never originally included (Sold seperately for $500) and the battery is $450, so the actualy price of the previous package is only $16650... So the price has come down if you think of it like that, of course it'd be a useless camera without a cable attaching the LCD or a means to charge the battery, but nevertheless techinically it's cheaper than previously quoted. :)

[CVB]

At NAB last year, we described
...

b) an affordable 140 Ah battery pack capable of driving the camera and multiple accessories.



Stuart.. I have a portable welder that could really use one of those 140Ah batteries ;)
By the way, you guys have done an amazing job in one years time, I cannot wait for the show.. its gonna be great.

-Curt

[LighthouseMEdia]

100% Over the top stellar achievment!!! And the oscar goes to....

[Steve Gibby]

The price to performance ratio of what RED projected at NAB 2006 was very high.

The price to performance ratio of today's RED is exponentially higher.

RED succeeded in high promises and over-delivering on them...all within a timeframe that seemed nearly impossible.

IMO a very remarkable achievement...

[Matt Redmond]

Any transportation issues with the 140 Ah batteries? Some batteries (like Li-Ions) have limits when it comes to air travel - though don't ask me what they are.

[Hoffmann Films]

Job well done RED team.....

[Anders Holck]

There should be no problem shipping 140WH Li-ion cells by air.
I only think the 160WH dionics are affected as they use special heavy duty cells.

It depends on the total amount of raw lithium used in the cells.
If it's above 8 grams, but below 25 you allowed to include 2 cells as carry on. and there are restrictions on how to declare them as they are considered dangerous goods

[Stuart English]

Well first let me correct the post. its 140Wh not 140Ah. My bad, its late....

No significant airline transportation issues, IATA rules suggest you would be able to carry two RED BRICK 140Wh batteries, per person, on a commercial passenger service.

[Graeme Nattress]

And to think some people thought "specs might change" could mean they'd get worse, not better :-)

Graeme

[Chris Kenny]

Any word on power consumption yet? Trying to figure out how many batteries to budget for....

[CVB]

I love disruptive technology.

[Steve Gibby]

Agreed...and I love people who provide us with disruptive technology...

[Anders Holck]

There are no restrictions regarding carry on of batteries with less than 8 grams of lithium. Above 8 grams and it's max. 2 like Stuart says.
If you pack them in a bag as luggage you are restricted to no more than 12 batteries per bag.

[Shawn Nelson]

Any word on power consumption yet? Trying to figure out how many batteries to budget for....

I would specifically wonder how long one of these batteries will last if I have Red, LCD and a RedDrive.

[Sanjin Jukic]

The product improvements since NAB 2006 are absolutely fantastic. Just because they are real now at March 2007.

[Alexander Nikishin]

I can only imagine how many Varicams, Cinealtas, HVXs etc. will be out on the market in a couple months, good time to buy if you're into fossils and such.

[chuck colburn]

There are no restrictions regarding carry on of batteries with less than 8 grams of lithium. Above 8 grams and it's max. 2 like Stuart says.
If you pack them in a bag as luggage you are restricted to no more than 12 batteries per bag.

Hi Anders,
Batteries are improving all the time. Here's a company with break through technology.

http://www.a123systems.com/html/technology.html

Chuck

[Robert Jackson]

Thanks Stewart. Absolutely incredible.

Dude, 'incredible' means not credible. ;-)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I can only imagine how many Varicams, Cinealtas, HVXs etc. will be out on the market in a couple months, good time to buy if you're into fossils and such.

I better snap my pics of the HVX and post some for sale ads ASAP. I was trying to wait-out the free 8GB P2 card promo, but something tells me that I'd better just dump the thing while I still can.

[Antoine Baumann]

And to think some people thought "specs might change" could mean they'd get worse, not better :-)

Graeme

Well, I had always a feeling that it won't get worse!!!

I have trust your philosophy, based on all the RED team statement and chating with you guys on the forums. And I have to say that your philosophy has been the most important factor of my purchase decision, above everything else. :excl:

CONGRATULATION TO ALL THE TEAM FOR THE ACHIEVEMENT YOU HAVE DONE!!!

cannot wait to see you at nab,
antoine.

[Gbabymogul]

Just finished the new budget and it works out a wee bit more pricey, but considering where we came from (yeah, i feel like part of the team) this is an unprecedented opportunity.

It's good to dream big.

NAB 2007. c'mon baby needs a new set of primes


:guinness:

[Jim Arthurs]

I better snap my pics of the HVX and post some for sale ads ASAP. I was trying to wait-out the free 8GB P2 card promo, but something tells me that I'd better just dump the thing while I still can.

I wouldn't worry about it, Jeff... I still feel we're looking at two completely different price ranges and buyers. I'm still making money with my HVX and expect to until I actually have my RED in hand... just realized that the HVX re-sale money is basically another "rebate" on the cost of the RED, if we wished to think of it that way...

But I'm sure not getting any more accessories for it... :)

[Rick Darge]

I wonder how much we'lll be able to get our used-hvxs to sell for?

I was hoping I could skim $5K off mine - camera, 4gb card, 8gb card, 4 batteries, 2 chargers and a portabrace case - that may be too much come summertime though

[RED-Tank]

It's good to dream big.



And even better, with RED, you don't have to be big to dream :-D.

Thank you RED~ It's exciting !!!

[Brook Willard]

Dude, 'incredible' means not credible. ;-)

incredible |in?kred?b?l|
adjective
1 impossible to believe
2 difficult to believe; extraordinary
informal amazingly good or beautiful

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I was hoping I could skim $5K off mine - camera, 4gb card, 8gb card, 4 batteries, 2 chargers and a portabrace case - that may be too much come summertime though

Yeah, I want to dump the HVX, but that means I would have to rent something for a few months or just stick with animation and still photo projects in the meantime. If I have to rent, I could easily spend as much or more than what I would get for my HVX package. Sooo..... I'll probably hang onto it for now. Or I'll go fishing with it for sale and see if anyone wants to pay my price and I'll lower the price as time gets closer to my RED delivery.

[Gregory Karydis]

I expect there will be a surge of used HVX sales during the initial months of RED's launch
So seeing as we are all friends here why don't we time our sales appropriately so as not to sell our old equipment at a huge loss?

for example let's say out of the 1475 res holders about 1/3rd own an HVX and they all put them up on ebay at the same time.
It will be really really hard for everyone to make a sale.

[Evin Grant]

I still see a market for HVX material, not everyone will need or be able to afford to shoot Red. And what about those "behind the scenes" DVD features?

[Nook Kim]

sunlight readable LCD unit

I'm very curious how this will work. Good-bye Hoodman?

Nook

[dalemccready]

Have a look at a starlight 4" LCD from Transvideo. I use it to operate off of a film camera in full sunlight. LCDs have acome a long way in a very short time. I also have an LCD Ultrabrite monitor with our Steadicam, it also requires no hood. The only time it can't be seen clearly is with the sun reflecting directly off the LCD surface.

[Jarred Land]

I remember viewing the 5.6" panel for the first time in direct sunlight... shooting straight up into a blue sky and being amazed how the image still popped.

[Robert Jackson]

incredible |in?kred?b?l|
adjective
1 impossible to believe
2 difficult to believe; extraordinary
informal amazingly good or beautiful

OK, OK...but still. ;-)

in·cred·i·ble Pronunciation[in-kred-uh-buhl]
–adjective
1. so extraordinary as to seem impossible: incredible speed.
2. not credible; hard to believe; unbelievable: The plot of the book is incredible.

From the Latin in-
a prefix of Latin origin, corresponding to English un-, having a negative or privative force, freely used as an English formative, esp. of adjectives and their derivatives and of nouns (inattention; indefensible; inexpensive; inorganic; invariable).

and the Latin crēdibilis, from crēdere, to believe

I always try to dissuade people from using that particular adjective unless they are sarcastically praising someone. ;-)

[Cail Young]

I always try to dissuade people from using that particular adjective unless they are sarcastically praising someone. ;-)

English, like all languages, evolves. And linguistics, the study of language, should aim to describe, not proscribe language use. Yes, 'incredible' has a literal meaning as the antonym of credible but in certain contexts it has come to mean something subtly different, in much the same way as the 'could' in "I could care less".

[Robert Jackson]

English, like all languages, evolves. And linguistics, the study of language, should aim to describe, not proscribe language use. Yes, 'incredible' has a literal meaning as the antonym of credible but in certain contexts it has come to mean something subtly different, in much the same way as the 'could' in "I could care less".

Nothing proscribed about it. He's free to use it. And I don't think anyone read his post and thought he meant that he didn't believe in the Red's stated specifications. There are just some words that get used a lot in colloquial English that people should stop and think about from time to time. Of course, I spend a lot of time around a group of English Lit PhDs who whack me in the head with stuff like that daily, so it kind of runs downhill. One ex-poet laureate that I know seems to delight in catching me when I'm either hurriedly giving instructions or (and this is even more infuriating) when I'm inebriated and dissecting my sentences.

[percy fung]

AnyBody has purchase one in Hong Kong, what is the serial number expected?
Percy

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Nothing proscribed about it. He's free to use it. And I don't think anyone read his post and thought he meant that he didn't believe in the Red's stated specifications. There are just some words that get used a lot in colloquial English that people should stop and think about from time to time. Of course, I spend a lot of time around a group of English Lit PhDs who whack me in the head with stuff like that daily, so it kind of runs downhill. One ex-poet laureate that I know seems to delight in catching me when I'm either hurriedly giving instructions or (and this is even more infuriating) when I'm inebriated and dissecting my sentences.

My sister-in-law is an english teacher... Drives me insane, but most of the time we agree on things and issues surrounding our language and how its taught. ...Like in the public school system how they teach that terrible "I" before "E" except after "C" rule... When there are far more words in the english language that violate the rule than follow it. But there are lots of words that have expanded to mean something more or different than their literal application.

But more than that, I think what bothers me more is the trend, which seems to have really exploded over the last 8 to 10 years, of using numbers in place of words. Like 2 (to / too), 4 (for), etc.. That and the use of descriptive phrases, which have come to mean things in casual conversation that they should not. Like "Rocket Science" or "Quantum Leap".

When someone texts me "C U L8R" from their cell phone, that's one thing. but when they end an email with that after misspelling every third word throughout the message, I can only shake my head and sigh with disappointment.

[Robert Jackson]

That and the use of descriptive phrases, which have come to mean things in casual conversation that they should not. Like "Rocket Science" or "Quantum Leap".

A few days ago someone told me that Photoshop CS3 was "an order of magnitude" better than CS2. I had to retreat to my Happy Place to keep from spitting on him. ;-)

[chuck colburn]

Jeff,

Amen to that.
I try to proof read what I send down the wire, (mainly cause I can't type for s**t) so that I don't look like an idiot. I'm about to turn fifty eight and I'm finding that I've forgotten how to spell some words that I swear I knew how to spell before. Soooo.. I keep a dictionary (damn I just had to look at the cover to see if there was one or two i's) next to me when I'm writing.
Not mention that my cursive writing skills have gone to hell in a handbasket. LOL
Oh well...what was I talking about? Never mind.

Chuck

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Man, with all these improvements and the $2500 credit for the reservation holders, I don't know what I want get now? Either the premium production package of the LCD with the regular production package. :curious:

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff,

Amen to that.
I try to proof read what I send down the wire, (mainly cause I can't type for s**t) so that I don't look like an idiot. I'm about to turn fifty eight and I'm finding that I've forgotten how to spell some words that I swear I knew how to spell before. Soooo.. I keep a dictionary (damn I just had to look at the cover to see if there was one or two i's) next to me when I'm writing.
Not mention that my cursive writing skills have gone to hell in a handbasket. LOL
Oh well...what was I talking about? Never mind.

Chuck

Haha... I don't proof or spell check unless it's something important. I type so damn fast that it just throws off my rhythm if I have to stop and fix something. :) But maybe I should start, looking back through a lot of my posts on the forums, I see that spelling isn't my problem most of the time.. It's the damn punctuation and grammar when I'm in a hurry.

When I get typing too fast I forget to use proper punctuation marks and sentence breaks which often leads to terribly hard to read and understand run-on sentences like this one.

[I Bloom]

I wouldn't worry about it, Jeff... I still feel we're looking at two completely different price ranges and buyers. I'm still making money with my HVX and expect to until I actually have my RED in hand... just realized that the HVX re-sale money is basically another "rebate" on the cost of the RED, if we wished to think of it that way...

But I'm sure not getting any more accessories for it... :)

I wouldn't invest any more money in an HVX package, but I wouldn't sell it either. Remmember the DVX100 is still a workhorse. You should buy insurance for the amount you want to sell it for and start renting it out. I think people are still going to be asking for that camera for a long time. (And remmember the red has no optical stabalization [OIS], that means for alot of stuff, especially handheld stuff that goes on the web the HVX is still a low cost easy solution for the day.) I want to sell mine, but I thought about it, and realized I couldn't.

Ian Bloom
http://www.ianbloom.com

[Robert Jackson]

And remmember the red has no optical stabalization


That's a pretty big deal, really. When I saw the Canon lens adapter on the price list I immediately started wondering if the RED would be able to use Canon's stabilized lenses. I doubt it, though.

[Erik Widding]

That's a pretty big deal, really. When I saw the Canon lens adapter on the price list I immediately started wondering if the RED would be able to use Canon's stabilized lenses. I doubt it, though.

You can use the image stabilization feature on the Canon EF IS lenses with our mount. Many of our customers have done this, and have reported being very happy with the results that these lenses can offer. Not as good a result as a full gimbal system, but at a tiny fraction of the price and weight. Each solution has its place. Many of these customers were military, so I do not have access to any hard data, just vague anecdotes.

[Michael Hastings]

I had the chance to use the EF F4 300mm IS Lens (about $1200) on my D20 and it was pretty phenomenal - the image stabilization was getting close to what I used to get with the old Schwem Gyrozoom (a $30000 B4 mount Stabilization lens for video cameras). Use of it or one like the Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM (about $1500) would provide phenomenal capability for nature shooters.


You can use the image stabilization feature on the Canon EF IS lenses with our mount. Many of our customers have done this, and have reported being very happy with the results that these lenses can offer. Not as good a result as a full gimbal system, but at a tiny fraction of the price and weight. Each solution has its place. Many of these customers were military, so I do not have access to any hard data, just vague anecdotes.

[Graeme Nattress]

http://www.mbpgalleries.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10068&pos=14

Was taken with the 500mm F4, hand held. IS, when done right, is very, very good indeed.

Graeme

[Joe Aurili]

The improvements are very nice, but there are a couple changes I have comments on.

"b) a battery pack that was internal to the camera, therefore of limited capacity
c) a single 2.5" disk based digital magazine also internal to the camera."

A) I wish where was still an option for an internal battery, even is the capacity was less. It would make for a much more compact camera when you need one. The external battery also creates the issue of a need place to attach the battery, which makes the rail more of a mandatory item, then an option.

B) I also liked the idea of an internal drive for the same reasons as the battery, but at least the flash options are available to make a more compact solution.

It there any way for me to solve the battery issue and maintain a compact camera that I am not aware of?

[Mike the beginner]

The improvements are very nice, but there are a couple changes I have comments on.

"b) a battery pack that was internal to the camera, therefore of limited capacity
c) a single 2.5" disk based digital magazine also internal to the camera."

A) I wish where was still an option for an internal battery, even is the capacity was less. It would make for a much more compact camera when you need one. The external battery also creates the issue of a need place to attach the battery, which makes the rail more of a mandatory item, then an option.

B) I also liked the idea of an internal drive for the same reasons as the battery, but at least the flash options are available to make a more compact solution.

It there any way for me to solve the battery issue and maintain a compact camera that I am not aware of?

We should be able to just buy a bracket instead of the cage. Remember if your are buying the red drive you will need to attach that at well. As i understand these parts will be available seperate (a bracket for cage and drive combined), I hope so. There will be loads of places to attach things to. But i imagine the sheer weight of the batteries/drive would limit the areas from an ergonimic point of view. Just a beginners thoughts.....

Mike the beginner

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hi Stuart,

I was at the showing in LA, I wanted to talk to you but it was not easy to get to you with my ingered knee,

the specs were great then and the stiil and moving frames beutifull, now this specs are so much, way much better.

Very exited to see you and hopefully Jim and Kelly at Vegas.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[REDHKSC]

Thanks Stewart. Absolutely incredible.

Where's Stuart ? I was nearly met him in HKG at the VIDEO POST with a kind introduction from Dr. Chris Hinie ( Wrong spelling ) and he was or now in CITI GROUP Investment Firm.

I am just a LITTLE STEWART in HKG - CHINA

[Eugene]

Where is that hooked-on-phonics guy? Does he still work for RED? I blame my poor spelling skills on phonics.
http://sp-subs.wz.cz/pics/episodes/313.gif