Piracy & open question to Assimilate.

[laguun]

We had 3 customers freelancers in the recent 14 days coming to the studio which had scratch installed on their notebooks.

(we had the impression) thatNot -one- copy of them was legal.

They all sold it as the "redcine pro" to the producers.

I am now asking myself what we shall do in this situation.
Usually, we would bust them - directly.

In this special scenario, we would also affect the production planning.
assimilate? whats your position on this?

p.s. edited in "we had the impression", as required in german law.

[Dylan Reeve]

I talked with an Adobe rep some years ago who certainly gave the impression that they were proud of the fact that Photoshop was one of the most widely pirated apps around. I guess the idea goes that by having a pool of people who demand it they will continually demand Photoshop when they are involved in purchasing decisions where they work.

I got a similar impression about Apple and FCP - having all the film school people and AV geeks with pirated copies of FCP provides a strong demand for it in the legal side of the market.

Scratch is a somewhat more niche product though, so that probably doesn't really hold true there.

[laguun]

I talked with an Adobe rep some years ago who certainly gave the impression that they were proud of the fact that Photoshop was one of the most widely pirated apps around. I guess the idea goes that by having a pool of people who demand it they will continually demand Photoshop when they are involved in purchasing decisions where they work.

Yeah, picary can be marketing.
Was no different when 3ds max killed off Softimage (classic), Power Animator, Explore etc.

But today its a slight little bit different - i dont think that assimilate has any interest inm haveing "redcine deluxe" freelancers running wild, neither do we.

[Brent J. Craig]

So, uh... which laptops exactly were they using...?

No reason for asking. Just curious.

:-)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

this is just a guess.
when 3000 reds are out there in a couple of months and every red creates a certain amount of footage that lets say will be edited by 5 persons, this makes 15000 postguys that will need at least an EDL function in redcine or scratch prepost...
but the cube that is included in scratchs red prepost is too expensive. i guess laguun could create a similar system for $$$$ .

to prevent piracy, redcine should read EDLs or the scratch prepost should be much cheaper.( i am not talking about scratch)

from here on, everybody could go to a CC house.

But if the redcode will be free to be implemented in other systems, i think the demand for scratch will go to almost zero for 80 % of people involved in a red production.

Asfaik scratch is good, but not the ferrari in Online/CCtools....so posthouses will stay with their clipsters etc...and for the average reduser it is too expensive and the investment makes no sense, because the amount of time for a ROI
with Scratch is way too long for an indy, because he is not a posthouse.
But scratch makes sense for the smaller posthouses that will arrange their pipeline around red...like we see here on reduser, a lot of people purchased scratch, but i the majority of them purchased first a red, then realized the importance of scratch and then bought it.
I think the number of posthouses that moved the last 6 months from another system (clipster for example) to Scratch is under 10 %....the postworld is not based on RED, this is reality.

Piracy copies will start to increase as long as the status quo remains.
Its bad for scratch seats and its bad for the other seats (clipster etc.)


-----edit : the you need star wars hardware to run scratch smooth is a little bit confusing. because this is not the first time that i read scratch is working on a simple laptop.
and the redcine doesnt need an EDL Argument makes no sense for me, if it is so, why is scratch using an EDL? Why dont you remove it then?
Maybe i have to less knowledge about this topic.

[Andrew M.]

One more argument to introduce SCRATCH Light, the version that will be restricted to 1008p or 2K on output but not on input. Some other features that are required only by post houses could be restricted as well.
How long it takes to implement and test these restrictions, a month?

[laguun]

So, uh... which laptops exactly were they using...?

No reason for asking. Just curious.

:-)


two were asus, the other was a macbook pro (arent they also from asus?) This isn limited to scratch, speedgrade also works on notebooks. the new thing is that they come to meetings in public with those systems.

the question at hands is - what do we do in such a situation?

[Mitch Deoudes]

the question at hands is - what do we do in such a situation?

Depends on your relationship with the freelancers in question. If you want to continue working with them, but you still feel strongly, you should probably tell them, "Hey - I know the guys that wrote that software. If you're using it commercially, you should really buy a copy," and leave it at that.

If you're not worried about maintaining the relationship, then name names to Assimilate. Just remember - it's not like they killed someone. Unlicensed software is a reality, and software companies have it figured into their business plan (or they should - see above post about Adobe) - the company itself decides how much effort to expend (from shareware to dongles, lawsuits & fake cops like the BSA). You're not necessarily required to police their software for them, unless you're personally invested in some way.

[Mark L. Pederson]

People who charge for a service and use pirated software are not professionals.

It's one thing to find a "cracked" piece of software to train yourself how to use it - it is another thing to charge people money for a service and use a tool that is stolen.

I have owned equity in films, and seen bootlegs being sold on the street corner - and it doesn't feel good. Yeah, it's a part of life. But that does not make it right.

Buy the tools you use to earn your living. AVOID working with criminals.

[Dylan Reeve]

For what it's worth, a small search around in the usual places didn't net any copies of SCRATCH floating around on the internets for all to have.

I'm fairly willing to turn a blind eye to people doing their own private stuff with a knock off copy of Photoshop or Premiere (although I would heavily promote free or open source alternatives where available), but when you're making money with it, there is no question - it should be legit (but I like free and open source there too where possible).

I've gazed longly at SCRATCH in the past, but I know there's no way we could afford it (or justify the expense) just now, I certainly wouldn't consider a pirate version as an alternative (although I really like the idea of 'learning editions' it you're reading Luki)

[mdo]

Word to the wise -- at the cost of Scratch, one pirated copy is well into the felony range.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Word to the wise -- at the cost of Scratch, one pirated copy is well into the felony range.

Not to mention you could end up with Nacho chasing you with a machete ...

[laguun]

you cant work with such people.

even being involved with them is shady.

what is -especially- upsetting is the "redcine" lie.
i think the best approach is to forward the issue to the producers in this case.

i have seen so many pirated fcs and adobe CS, and i have to admit i never really cared of.
we have our adobe and apple licenses, and basicly everyone using a illegal copy is destroying his own market. (one has to love the "i dont use it for professional work" stereotype justification, no wonder)

but now seeing DI solutions as lustre, scratch and speedgrade flowing on PA notebooks really is, lets say, over the edge.

p.s.
mods, i digged a little bit, and indeed speedgrade, scratch and lustre are all floating in the p2p world. i think therefore this thread should be moved to 4k workflow general or Off Topic, its not scratch specific

[laguun]

I certainly wouldn't consider a pirate version as an alternative (although I really like the idea of 'learning editions' it you're reading Luki)

usually, any DI solution offer will be given as free rental from any di software houses if you are a really interested buyer.

[Lucas Wilson]

I will say this once, and then I am closing this thread. I speak for myself and for ASSIMILATE here.

On one level, having your software pirated is an indication that you have "made it." Your software is popular enough that somebody thinks there is enough money to be made to crack it. A much older version of SCRATCH has been out there in P2P land for more than a year.

On the other hand, if we can definitively prove that any single individual or entity has been using a pirated version of SCRATCH for profit, we will aggressively take any and all legal action to stop that practice and level appropriate civil and criminal penalties on those entities.

This is a black and white issue. If you are using pirated software for profit, you are taking away the ability for a company to continue to innovate. And it is also incredibly destructive for our customers - people who are legitimate who now have to compete with thieves. Any logic about lacking features or excessive cost that is used for justification is false. Stealing = stealing.

We have an *incredibly* liberal policy for demo licenses. If you are seriously interested in SCRATCH, we will give you a demo license with very little effort. If you want to learn the program, we will help you. You just have to ask. If you use a pirated version and make money with it, you are stealing.

And we have zero tolerance for it.

Lucas Wilson
--------------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA