Libec LS-60 ?

[Rick Darge]

They are under 2 grand..

I used to use them in school, smaller ones. Anyone know if this would work with a Red?

[Andrew Benz]

Hi Richard,

Hope your doing well, can't wait to see your "Barter Deal" footage-- looks like everyone was really into it. Too bad I live 1666 miles away... and have not taken delivery yet or...

First off Richard, I am in the same boat as you. I would love to buy a Panther t48 set up but it ended up $1000 more than what I have budgeted. ( Thank you Adrian Correia for all the info on the Panther Heads--- greatly appreciated and I hope you are enjoying your Red)

Last year, I did freelance work for a company that uses a lot of efp shooters and one of their main tripods was a Libec model. Given what I know of their higher to highest end units... run... do not walk away from their units. They had all kinds of problems... I could write a paragraph but instead let me say that the build quality is seriously lacking and that I would not trust it to support my Red. Others may feel differently, but when someone asks a question like this, I feel I have to answer with,'' ...after having used that "x gear" would I spend my hard earned cash on it? I would say no to the Libec gear.

The Miller Arrow 55 with the carbon Sprinter 2 sticks would be perfect if I could use the ET 1030 dovetail without any further plate adaptation. I have used a lot of different heads from many eras for many years for mainly EFP/Commercial production. But then again I am not a fan of the Ocon sticks and their crappy lever system, could the tripod legs stick a little more please on deployment... though the heads are some of my favorites.

My point is Richard there is no way short cut for a quality tripod system or many here would be on it. If your are working alone or with a small crew then I would get the "Gibby Approved" Miller set up. If you do a lot of high end commercial work then skip the 1030 and go for the 2060. I say this coming from what I used to work with and what I do now. I hope this helps Richard.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Rick Darge]

Yea..come to think of it, that Libec we used in school was a real p.o.s..

I'm borrowing a friend's 2060 right now.. I wish I owned one of these bad asses.. Really solid

[Andrew Benz]

That is a good friend you have there Richard. ;-)

[MikeHedge]

does the ET dove tail fit the Miller?

[Andrew Benz]

does the ET dove tail fit the Miller?

Hi Mike,

Yes, but not as elegantly when in use with the Ocon 1030 and or 2060. In Finners' Element video you can see how quickly the Element Dove tail "snaps"(*edit) though you may also slide the dovetail into position as well into the Ocon head---nothing else is needed--- you actually save a piece (and cash) from Ocon. What is important to remember is that this allows you to slide you camera fore and aft to balance the load over the head very easily. Depending on what work you do and the various requirements to rig your Red for this type of work could be very important.

For the Miller, there is a small camera plate that (2) screws onto the ET dovetail... Your load is somewhat fixed. You have a very small range of fore and aft, loosen the sliding platform lock on the right side of the head and there is your range. If this does not help balance your load you have to unscrew the small miller camera plate in order to change the plate position fore or aft to your target placement. Could be a PIA, depending on your work requirements and various Red/Lens set ups-- it could also be just fine for your work. Here is a picture of the Miller Arrow 55 fluid head and it's inset plate.
http://www.adorama.com/images/Product/MIA55.JPG

Hope that helps Mike.

Cheers,

Andrew

PS-- Big thanks goes to reduser Thom who sussed out many answers for me from BJ at Custom Supply... the above included.

Thom got his Red a couple weeks and seems to have vanished in an ether of bliss. ;-)

[Damien Molineaux]

Hi Mike,

Yes, but not as elegantly when in use with the Ocon 1030 and or 2060. In Finners' Element video you can see how quickly the Element Dove tail "snaps" into the Ocon head---nothing else is needed--- you actually save a piece from Ocon. What is important to remember is that this allows you to slide you camera fore and aft to balance the load over the head. Depending on what you do this could be very important.

For the Miller, there is a small plate that (2) screws onto the ET dovetail... Your load is fixed. You have to unscrew the small miller plate in order to change the plate position fore and aft. Could be a PIA, depending on your work requirements and various Red/Lens set ups.
...


Am I mistaken in thinking the ET dovetail alows for the camera to slide on it, therefore allowing some fore and aft repositionning ?

Cheers,
Damien

[Billy McCannon]

Hi Andrew,

You mention that you desire the Panther T45 but you recommend the Ocon 2060. Is that down to the ET plate or the quality of the head?
What do you think about the Panther T28 which Abel Cine recommend for the red?

[Andrew Benz]

I was not clear Damien. Thank you. I will edit my post.

I just meant as an added bonus to moving quickly between set ups you can snap the dovetail/Red in as opposed to lining up the dovetail then sliding it into place. To answer Mike, the Miller needs a small plate in order to attach the ET dovetail to the head and the bonus info is you do not get the range of movement fore and aft to balance the load that one would get with the Ocon/ETdovetail.

Have a good week Damien.

[Andrew Benz]

Hi Andrew,

You mention that you desire the Panther T45 but you recommend the Ocon 2060. Is that down to the ET plate or the quality of the head?
What do you think about the Panther T28 which Abel Cine recommend for the red?

Hi Billy, for me it comes down to the ET plate, my personal budget and my work-- not the quality of the heads. I would be proud and damn lucky to own either.

The suggestion to Richard to get the 2060 stems from the fact that he is in LA and may be looking to work the higher end gigs that need the bigger head for all the extra gear one needs for those types of productions. Also, Red/2060 is a known quantity to those that rent. Panther makes incredible gear, I just think their heads are not as well known as the Ocon in the States.

Red user Adrian Correia was able to get hands on with both Panther heads and was extremely impressed with it's operation and fit/finish. He liked it very much... I hope he can chime in and discuss. I have not used them personally... I may be renting or trying to get a demo before I make a purchase of what I have used like the Miller or the Ocon 1030hds.

Here are links to 2 one sheet pdfs on the two Panther heads with pictures.

http://www.panther.tv/fileadmin/_pdf/_datasheets/bcD_fluidhead_T28.pdf

http://www.panther.tv/fileadmin/_pdf/_datasheets/bcD_fluidhead_T45.pdf

Billy, I am sending you a pm.