Take Final Cut Pro workflow and get Best Picture and Directing Academy Awards [Archive]

David Birdy

02-25-2008, 10:04 AM

The Movie was shot in 35MM and the dailies were sent to the brothers to put together the ruff cut edit onsite..

I don't think they used "Color" to do the final color grading or FCP studio2 for the final edit!!

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 11:26 AM

Use an Avid workflow and get an Academy award for best editing.

Link (http://www.avid.com/showcase/bourne-ultimatum-editing-workflow.asp)

sparkhope

02-25-2008, 11:42 AM

regardless of the NLE that ending was pure sh*t. Actually the entire 3rd act left a lot to be desired. The opening was wonderful - but downhill from there. On the other hand Diving Bell was flat out the best in quite some time.

Sanjin Jukic

02-25-2008, 11:42 AM

Oscar for

Best film editing

"There Will Be Blood"

It's was cut on Moviola (or similar).

No DI involved at all.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Blood.jpg

Dj Joofa

02-25-2008, 12:51 PM

Use an Avid workflow and get an Academy award for best editing.

Link (http://www.avid.com/showcase/bourne-ultimatum-editing-workflow.asp)

Some of the big names in film editing, who are technology savvy, don't commit themselves to a single NLE. Famous editor Walter Murch used Avid on the English Patient and got an academy award for best editing (I believe). Then a few years back, he defied all industry warnings, and used Final Cut Pro on the $80 million film The Cold Mountain. This effort is documented in the book "Behind the Seen", which I think is a must read for any serious film editor.

Dominic Cochran

02-25-2008, 01:17 PM

Oscar for

Best film editing

"There Will Be Blood"

It's was cut on Moviola (or similar).

No DI involved at all.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Blood.jpg

You don't need a DI to edit a film on a computer-based NLE. Unless of course you make no distinction between a DI and a Telecine.

sparkhope

02-25-2008, 01:21 PM

Some of the big names in film editing, who are technology savvy, don't commit themselves to a single NLE. Famous editor Walter Murch used Avid on the English Patient and got an academy award for best editing (I believe). Then a few years back, he defied all industry warnings, and used Final Cut Pro on the $80 million film The Cold Mountain. This effort is documented in the book "Behind the Seen", which I think is a must read for any serious film editor.

Thanks for the recommendation - will get that asap!

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 01:23 PM

Oscar for

Best film editing

"There Will Be Blood"

No Sanjin. Get the facts right.
It was not "There will be blood".

The award for best film editing went to Christopher Rouse for "The Bourne Ultimatum". And it was cut using an Avid.

I was just messing with you, but you just won't give up.

Sanjin Jukic

02-25-2008, 01:29 PM

Sorry, you're right.

I mixed up categories of cinematography and film editing.

Avid is a corporate editing tool and FCP is more for home users as the most people here at the forum.

The corporate here means (more MONEY, more CONTROL).

I don't need it.

And I don't give up at all.

Still fresh and young :).

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 01:32 PM

But the editing in "No Country for Old Men" was superb. I think it should have won the award.

Even if it was cut with an inferior tool :)

Andrew Hewlett

02-25-2008, 03:43 PM

Is it just me or is the editing contributed to the editor and NOT the tools done to edit? Do you think the same edit could have been done on FCP?

chuckt

02-25-2008, 03:52 PM

Dj Joofa

02-25-2008, 03:59 PM

you will be surprised to know that majority of the movies that are shown in theaters today were edited by cutting and pasting, without using a computer.

what happened to: "I called Film on the phone and said I met some one"?
I think they all wandered around for a while and then came back home and made up with film.

I am not sure if that is correct. My understanding was that most Hollywood movies these days are edited digitally, even if most are shot on film. I think among the big shots, Steven Spielberg is insisting on keeping a Moviolla-based system. The rest have caught on to digital revolution.

Joseph Hutson

02-25-2008, 04:07 PM

Would you rather be known as winning "Best Picture and Directing", which everyone knows, and cares about, or just, "best editing"?

The average person cares more about Best Picture. Am I right?

RicanJoe

02-25-2008, 04:17 PM

As long as you know how to edit, you should be able to make anything look good even in Windows Movie maker..no?

Joseph Hutson

02-25-2008, 04:18 PM

no. :-) maybe?

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 04:21 PM

Is it just me or is the editing contributed to the editor and NOT the tools done to edit? Do you think the same edit could have been done on FCP?

Not the same edit. Mostly because I think the editor of The Bourne Ultimatum is more proficient with Avid. But it's pretty clear that you can edit features with FCP since the film that received the Academy award for best film was edited with just that software.

BTW. My first post was just me messing with fanboy Sanjin.
It's just funny how he thinks Avid is corporate/money and Apple is the "underdog" when Apple sells more copies of editing software than Avid ever will.

Joseph Hutson

02-25-2008, 04:25 PM

Why fight the fight about whether FCP is better than Avid?

Apple has already won it FOR us!

Dj Joofa

02-25-2008, 04:30 PM

Would you rather be known as winning "Best Picture and Directing", which everyone knows, and cares about, or just, "best editing"?

The average person cares more about Best Picture. Am I right?

Firstly, good directors are many times editors at some time in their careers.

There is an interesting issue here. Good editing is always done in a way that you *don't* notice it. There are a lot of psychological issues around here. A famous example that is sometimes quoted in film studies is that "monkey scene" in the master director David Lean's last film "A Passage To India", where that lady (can't seem to remember her name) was harassed by the monkeys around a temple. If I remember correctly, there was hardly a frame where the lady and monkeys were shown together. I.e., it is possible they were shot separately, and glued together so seamlessly that the audience never recognizes this apparent disconnect -- they are so absorbed in the "moment of the film."

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 04:34 PM

Why fight the fight about whether FCP is better than Avid?

Apple has already won it FOR us!

Yes, you are of course right. Apple have won.
Just like Microsoft Windows won the OS "fight".
Because if it has more users, then it's better.

It seems I lost both in the OS fight and in the NLE fight (Avid Media Composer on OSX). I feel so miserable when I edit on my favourite OS with my favourite tool.

Andrew Hewlett

02-25-2008, 04:39 PM

It's just funny how he thinks Avid is corporate/money and Apple is the "underdog" when Apple sells more copies of editing software than Avid ever will.

Do you know that as a fact? I don't. Plus selling more, doesn't mean it's being used by the right people. I think the Avid vs FCP debate is crap. If you can't edit, it doesn't matter what you use. If you can edit, it doesn't matter what you use. I'm sure Walter Murch can do an excellent edit in Avid, FCP and a film splicer.

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 04:42 PM

Would you rather be known as winning "Best Picture and Directing", which everyone knows, and cares about, or just, "best editing"?

The average person cares more about Best Picture. Am I right?

I would be happy to receive an Oscar for any category.
But then I have to do boring stuff instead of editing, which is the coolest thing in the world.

Jörgen Persson

02-25-2008, 04:43 PM

Do you know that as a fact? I don't. Plus selling more, doesn't mean it's being used by the right people. I think the Avid vs FCP debate is crap. If you can't edit, it doesn't matter what you use. If you can edit, it doesn't matter what you use. I'm sure Walter Murch can do an excellent edit in Avid, FCP and a film splicer.

1. I know it for a fact.

2. Walter Murch has done excellent edits on all of the tools above. And he would do it again in the blink of an eye.

Cail Young

02-26-2008, 04:47 AM

And he would do it again in the blink of an eye.

An excellent choice of metaphor :)

In The Blink of an Eye, by Walter Murch (http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Eye-Revised-2nd/dp/1879505622/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204029999&sr=8-1)

Sanjin Jukic

02-26-2008, 05:22 AM

Also is good to read

"Behind the Seen:
How Walter Murch Edited Cold Mountain Using
Apple's Final Cut Pro and
What This Means for Cinema"

by Charles Koppelman

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Pjx-Mqb4L._SS500_.jpg
Behind the Seen: How Walter Murch Edited Cold Mountain
Using Apple's Final Cut Pro and What This Means for Cinema.

LINK>>> (http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Seen-Walter-Edited-Mountain/dp/0735714266/ref=pd_sim_b_title_3)

Davide B.

02-26-2008, 08:46 PM

In the Blink of an Eye is a really fun book. That and Painting with Light were the first two film books I ever read, and I'm still looking for something to top that pair.

Does anyone know what Murch used to edit The Conversation? That was the best editing (best sound editing too) I've ever seen in a movie. I'm sure he could have done it on anything but I'm just curious.

davide

Robert Mott

02-27-2008, 03:17 AM

Andrew Hewlett

02-27-2008, 08:35 AM

2. Walter Murch has done excellent edits on all of the tools above. And he would do it again in the blink of an eye.

I guess that was my point. A better camera isn't going to make you a better DP, a better digital editing suite isn't going to make you a better editor.

BigLu

02-28-2008, 05:43 AM

Video Toaster baby.
That's what I wanna win on.

Martin Ludwig

02-28-2008, 05:50 AM

A better camera isn't going to make you a better DP, a better digital editing suite isn't going to make you a better editor.

THANKS

Joseph Hutson

02-28-2008, 08:14 AM

I guess that was my point. A better camera isn't going to make you a better DP, a better digital editing suite isn't going to make you a better editor.

No, but it sure does help!

Jörgen Persson

02-28-2008, 09:17 AM

No, but it sure does help!

AGREED!

LINK: Larry King cut on FCP (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zjJRSHJNUg)

Shawn Booth

02-28-2008, 09:07 PM

[QUOTE=The Third Man;163900]

Avid is a corporate editing tool and FCP is more for home users as the most people here at the forum.

[QUOTE]

FCP is not "more for home users" in any regard. That's iMovie. FCP has always just been easier to get your hands on. It is fully a professional piece of software and used by industry pros all the time. I am a professional editor and I use it. I know AVID and prefer FCP.

Whichever one chooses to edit, NLE's are just tools to get the job done.

Joseph Hutson

02-28-2008, 09:33 PM

WOW! iMovie...so glad I am not using that!

Andrew Hewlett

02-28-2008, 10:18 PM

I used to cut scenes on set quickly in iMovie...great tool for rough dv edits quick. Now I can't navigate iMovie and FCP is quicker to me.

Dominic Cochran

02-28-2008, 11:50 PM

[QUOTE=The Third Man;163900]

I know AVID and prefer FCP.

Avid Liquid is not one of Avid's professional solutions.

Dylan Reeve

02-29-2008, 12:32 AM

I still feel there are very serious places where FCP falls down in the basics... Stuff that people like Murch wouldn't care about because they never touch the input or output.

FCP has perhaps more in the way of 'prettying up' features than Avid, but lacks some of the fundamentals (media management, input and output stuff). FCP might be better suited to some types of production (where there's not going to be any recapturing, online, film conform) but for many applications the lack of good media management is a serious impediment.

I'm a professional editor, I use Avid and FCP, and I prefer Avid (even though the only feature I've ever cut was on FCP).

Gareth Gerrard

02-29-2008, 07:21 AM

FCP is sexy.

Michael "Dorkman" Scott

03-01-2008, 12:09 AM

Isn't this the "Cinematography" forum?

sparkhope

03-01-2008, 12:42 AM

No, but it sure does help!

Wow. That's probably the single most misguided post I've read on this forum. Editing is akin to a second chance at directing the film. It has everything to do with finding the tone, setting the pace and building the structure. A good editor is like a great musician or chef. He'll ofen use his ear and sometime his nose to find the right ingredient for his art. The most important tool an editor has is his heart not his NLE. It might sound corny but it is absolutely true.

Joseph Hutson

03-01-2008, 06:16 AM

Wow. That's probably the single most misguided post I've read on this forum.

WHAT?

I am not going to go out, and make personal attacks like others on Reduser (and I am not talking about "sparkhope"), but I did NOT say a better digital editing suite was going to make you a better editor...if you just look at my post, I started out by saying NO! But I think EVERYBODY would agree, an NLE like FCP OR Avid, allows the editor to edit quicker, and more efficiently...therefore, "IT HELPS!"

That to ME personally, is a NO BRAINER!

Am I the ONLY ONE? Apparently not, since rebusfilm's post.