SCRATCH Price [Archive]

PapaBear

03-04-2008, 04:12 PM

I hope I’m wrong, but I always thought that there was something fishy about companies refusing to name the list price for their products... However, after Steve Sherrick’s answer I realized that my question (our question, in fact) could be too general, and that we should maybe ask Assimilate the following about SCRATCH:

1. How much it is the list price for the modules?
2. How much it is the list price for the hardware component?
3. How much it is the list price for the Red package?

Again, it is about the list price and not about “special deals” one could negotiate with the company. And it is about a matter of principle: to openly disclose to prospective buyers, in good faith, all the details about the product you are trying to sell, including a reference price.

mezmo

03-04-2008, 04:19 PM

If your just using Scratch to conform and rough grade R3d files it
would probably be a lot less than 50K but if pumping out 2K realtime
and have it connected to a SAN or BOXX setup then it would be be getting up there, way up there. It's 'how long is a piece of string?' pricing, and probably
the only way they can do it. Competition like Speedgrade will quote a software price and it's on the website. Still a lot more than FCS2 & COLOR.
Mezmo

Kevin Halverson

03-04-2008, 08:56 PM

There isn't any big secrets, just email Lucas, set up a demo if you like and he will provide you a quotation based upon the configuration that you determine you will need. I did, it was a great experience and its a hell of a product too. Can't wait to get a seat.

Seth Larney

03-04-2008, 09:03 PM

Guys, I'm not sure why it's such a big dead to email Lucas ? It doesn't take much. He has offered to give you any pricing you require and also explained why Assimilate operate the way they do. They are under no obligation to do anything else..

I can tell you first hand that Lucas is an extremely helpful and attentive guy, if you are genuinely interested in Scratch then drop him a line and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

donatello b

03-04-2008, 09:51 PM

that's the way they do business ...
if i remember correctly there is a RED box ( software & hardware) that i think the figure was 50k ( not sure what modules are included) ... now figure you would need a good 15-30k monitor = so i'm sure price will total above 50k ...
so is the cost /use ratio worth 50K+ to you ..
if YES - then email Luki for fine details ...
if it's not worth 50k then ??? either go to a post house that has it ...
use a different system ..
or get together with X number of Red owners and buy it or some other system ...

if you ask 10 persons how much does a RED cost ... you're going to get 10 different answers that range from 17,500 to 200k ... depends on your needs/wants and what equipment you currently own ...

Patrick Tresch

03-05-2008, 02:56 AM

if you ask 10 persons how much does a RED cost ... you're going to get 10 different answers that range from 17,500 to 200k ...

The trouble is that REDUSER are used to have an open cost policy. A REDONE cost 17'500$ not more not less and independently where you live and who you are. You can make a quote by choosing your needs adding features or descarting accessories you don't want. But the price policy is always the same.

... depends on your needs/wants and what equipment you currently own ...

If you own allready something that you want to implement on your workstation (if it is Scratch compliant) you will not ask them to quote it!!!!

The point of this thread is that reduser love RED price policy. Assimilate could also implement it on their web page as Scratch is a module based software (hardware configuration depends on systems/feature/needs).

But Assimilate wants a more personal approach wich obviously has also its limits.

It's their choice IMHO.

Patrick.

Gunleik Groven

03-05-2008, 04:46 AM

Trouble is, Assimilate is not Red... The co-work and co-exist and co-operate, but their business model seems very diferent. And to Assimilates credits - they've contributed highly to make Red "work".

I do find this post entertaining in that respect, though: :)

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=99428&postcount=8

Cheers!
Gunleik

josh

03-05-2008, 08:53 AM

I tell you why the price of Scratch is not public: because it can affect the sale of the RED.

If knowing in advance that the promised land of 4k for indie is not really for indie, it may not be good for sales.

I, for one, want to know how much it's REALLY going to cost me before I get my RED.

But I feel my hopes are going to be crushed.

If the cost of Scratch depends entirely by the package, then why not give a ballpark quote for renting? Just online and CC? Why not? It's even this possibility so outrageously expensive?

How many of you guys are going to spend over 20,000 on a camera that promises 4k, just to finish with the proxy because you won't be able to afford the online and CC?

Ah, the power of marketing.

Steve Sherrick

03-05-2008, 09:48 AM

Gunleik Groven

03-05-2008, 10:32 AM

Have to agree with Steve here.

Gunleik

donatello b

03-05-2008, 10:49 AM

" A REDONE cost 17'500$ not more not less"

for most that is not the cost to be able to USE it ...
each must add to teh body ... depending on your need/want you add to it and the price goes UP ....some will be happy spending 25k other 100k ...

josh

03-05-2008, 11:12 AM

Josh, what kind of projects are you working on? Are they film outs or HD finish? I think you're going to be okay. There are many solutions in the works, some very savvy people putting in time to develop tools that could help the smaller shops. Cameras just started ramping up in the past couple of months. Need to give everyone time to catch up. Scratch is a nice solution, but if it's out of the budget, there will be more solutions eventually that might fall in line with your budget.

Steve, if I had the budget for a filmout I would never shoot video, so, obviously it would have to be HD, for my feature.

My question is... how does it compare in quality with a genesis or viper?

I'm very new at this (digital world, not filmmaking), I'm just a director.

Somebody told me the red is like genesis quality at a price of DVCPROHD. Is that right?

I just need to know the bottom line, I'm not a tech.

And how does it compare pricewise from shooting to post with those cameras?

Onlining footage from those cameras seems the same price like onlining on Scratch, so would it be better to rent a genesis or buy a red?

It seems that knowing the price of post makes a difference and I'm really getting confused.

Steve Sherrick

03-05-2008, 12:46 PM

If you don't have unreasonable deadlines and the end result is let's say 1080P, then I'm of the opinion that you have some options right now and they won't cost you anything more than any typical HD editing system such as Final Cut Pro. The question you have to ask yourself is - Do you want to do all of the post work yourself or will you do the editing and then take the finishing elsewhere?

Red offers various ways of handling your footage through custom designed apps like Redcine and Red Alert (both free by the way). Thy are still in beta and have some kinks to be worked out, but you can export footage, do one light color corrections, etc and upon export end up with whatever format your system can support. But this requires time, lots of it for a feature. But they also offer editing via proxies that are generated with the R3D files and this can get you into FCP quickly to do your edits.

Ian Bloom has been working on RedTrip which opens up a pipeline between FCP and Redcine.

There are options. As a director, you need to look at what Red brings to the table in terms of quality, look, etc. If you are sold on that, then you need to look at the workflow and decide if it fits your situation. What editing system will you be cutting on, how much storage will you have, where will the online take place, what is the post production schedule, etc?

RED is a great thing, wonderful for the indy filmmaking world. But it may not be for everyone. Compared to Genesis, Viper, Cinealta they are all different, with advantages and disadvantages. But if you are looking to buy a camera, you'll find it hard to beat the price/value of the Red. But there are so many variables that come into play, that I can't explain them all in one post.

I will say this. RED is not a $17,500 camera. Most people know that going in, but perhaps people who are not necessarily techy types may not. This is a $25K plus investment if you are looking to shoot a feature. I would seriously look at speaking with a Red owner/operator and see if renting might be an option. They should be able to take a look at your situation and put together a plan for the entire workflow from shooting through post. Then you'll know what you are up against.

Dylan Reeve

03-05-2008, 11:40 PM

I tell you why the price of Scratch is not public: because it can affect the sale of the RED.

If knowing in advance that the promised land of 4k for indie is not really for indie, it may not be good for sales.

With all due respect, if you thought that 4K was in the reach of your average indie, you've not really got any idea about the realities of these things. Even many studio films never see a 4K DI.

If you're going to jump into something like this with the idea that the camera is the only factor then you're going to be sadly disappointed, just like early DV adopters were sad to discover they couldn't edit with their previously excellent Pentium.

" A REDONE cost 17'500$ not more not less"

for most that is not the cost to be able to USE it ...
each must add to teh body ... depending on your need/want you add to it and the price goes UP ....some will be happy spending 25k other 100k ...

This is probably a part of the reason Assimilate doesn't advertise the price. It's not a simple as going in and buying a box of a shelf at BestBuy... Depending on your needs, you'd need to buy a number of modules, and extra hardware. There are very many options and iterations. Quoting a base price will just give people a false idea of what they will need to spend.

Also, it's not an uncommon practice at all for this type of software. I don't think I've ever seen the manufacturers advertise list prices for Lustre, or Pablo, or Baselight, or eQ, or Inferno. The pricing on these products doesn't lend itself to being put in a simple pricelist, it's normally a complex structure.

laguun

03-06-2008, 02:15 AM

With all due respect, if you thought that 4K was in the reach of your average indie, you've not really got any idea about the realities of these things. Even many studio films never see a 4K DI.

4K is fully in the reach of any indie.
Adobe Premiere handles 4K, with cineform even on a $$$$ computer.

If we are talking about -full- 4K, with display and i/o, ok, thats something different, but scratch doesnt do that - its 2K i/o and display.

It's not a simple as going in and buying a box of a shelf at BestBuy...
Depending on your needs, you'd need to buy a number of modules, and extra hardware. There are very many options and iterations. Quoting a base price will just give people a false idea of what they will need to spend.

scratch will run on any modern pc for 5.000 usd, (luki even pointed out that he is runnning it under windows on an apple notebook pc)
you might want a Nvidia Graphics board, with the Quadro drivers for 1.000-8.000 usd.
disk storage at sustained 400 Mbytes/sek for 2K is on SATA starting at 1500 usd.
the human interfaces from 3hrd parties are an option, you dont need them but if you want them you can spend $$$$-$$$$$ depending on your wishes.

As most mid-level software only DI systems, Scratch is a software, but in this market space, where software houses sell only dozens to hundreds of copies, many try to sell the hardware and the software in order to maximize the revenue per customer.

Also, it's not an uncommon practice at all for this type of software. I don't think I've ever seen the manufacturers advertise list prices for Lustre, or Pablo, or Baselight, or eQ, or Inferno. The pricing on these products doesn't lend itself to being put in a simple pricelist, it's normally a complex structure.
Its only a sales technique when you are selling to a small niche.

scratch or lustre are no different from adobe cs3 or apple fcs, and do the same things with less or more specialization.

once the competition is there, everyone discloses list prices. look at Avid, in former times, it was the same sales approach for Media Composer, once FC and Premiere begun winning over mayor parts of the markets, Avid Media Composer was -advertised- with 4.995$ - the last MC we used costed us >100.000 and also had no list price.

i am surprised that assimilate didnt take the opportunity to increase its market share by offering a $$$$ red specialized version. However i hope they reconsider, once red finally allows 3hrd parties to support the native redcode fileformat before most red camera owners buy alternatives elsewhere, as scratch is a nice software and i sure wish them the best for the future.

Blair S. Paulsen

03-06-2008, 03:24 AM

Snip

however, even as scratch is the only windows software allowed to support R3D until april - the assimilate sales and marketing approach isn´t the red "rebellion", its the opposite.

"dont tell" pricing and 30~50.000 for a windows software cd-rom are sure rather 1990´s business, which many people and corporations find pretty contrasting to reds

Blair, i think in this your attitude is a little out of line.

in my times at discreet logic in the mid 90ties, flames and infernos went for 0, 25.000 or 250.000 for the same product, depending on the customer and if the company really did want to have the (key) account.

I never said I thought Assimilate's marketing plan was genius, just that it is their decision how they wish to run their business. My attitude may have been a bit stronger than necessary but when someone has been a part of the RedUser community in such a predominantly positive way for such a long time then I believe this particular user forum should respect his request.

Whether keeping pricing under wraps is good business, or asking the forum to keep secrets, passes muster as "in the spirit" of open information sharing is a valid question. Frankly, if it was not somebody like Lucas, or CVB, or the ET guys then I wouldn't go out of my way to ask the community to show some respect.

In any case, lagunn's post was a rational and courteous response so as far as I'm concerned we can agree to disagree.

Peace - Blair

Sanjin Jukic

03-06-2008, 03:49 AM

Watch and listen what Assimilate’s Lucas Wilson said about SCRATCH price(s) at

RED ONE CAMERA Presentation, HD EXPO, Burbank, CA, 7th-8th Nov, 2007.

http://www.hdexpo.net/virtual/images/RED_7.jpg
Lucas Wilson.

VIDEO LINK>>> (http://www.hdexpo.net/virtual/panels/REDpanel09_600.html)

josh

03-06-2008, 08:32 AM

With all due respect, if you thought that 4K was in the reach of your average indie, you've not really got any idea about the realities of these things. Even many studio films never see a 4K DI.

gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.

Lucas Wilson

03-06-2008, 09:15 AM

Did I hear that right? 55k and not 55 hundred...for the cube.

Guys,

If you search through the threads going back a few months - I posted the same information here that I said in that video.

The Cube + a very full version of SCRATCH = 55K turnkey.

The Cube, by the way, is a very serious beast. Dual quad-core, 3G RAM, NVidia FX4600-SDI, and 4TB of RAID5 storage in a removable disk pac. It is a great system for on-set, but is also a great system for regular old 2K DPX work. We have several customers using the cube for a combination of RED and 2K DPX DI.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Dylan Reeve

03-06-2008, 10:15 AM

gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.

I wasn't intending to be rude, but 4K is some serious image to be pushing around. It's not simple in any respect, and capturing 4K is not even close to being half the battle.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?

You'd be spending a lot more to get your own film processing and colour timing equipment...

To me the expectations have always seemed a little weird in this way. If you shoot 35mm, you'd generally telecine to DV or Digi for an offline edit, and the rent time for a DI to negative cut, you'd not go out and buy a Steenbeck so you could do your own neg cut.

The same thing, in my opinion, should be applied to RED. You can do all your preliminary work in Avid or FCP for little cost on your own terms, and then go to a post house for the finishing. There's no need to own it all yourself.

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.

The answer is yes, much more so than ever. You can buy a RED camera for less than you'd have paid in rental on a Dalsa before, or even better you can rent one for a price that makes it competitive with more traditional video formats.

But to stay 4K the whole way you're going to need to do some heavy lifting at some point, and the gear for that is going to be costly, or you're going to need to rent. For most people renting makes much more sense, unless you're doing this day in day out.

There's some sort of idea that because you can buy the camera cheap that you should be able to buy everything and do it all yourself - I don't think it's quite realistic for 4K at the moment.

Sanjin Jukic

03-06-2008, 02:06 PM

I'm just waiting for my camera to be or to get delivered.

After that is continuing a part II.

Part II means a camera system that you could afford (as a private person).

I mean a camera and best lenses.

Also the best affordable post system.

Have everything to get shot and produced under your tiny indie control.

Steve Sherrick

03-06-2008, 02:53 PM

gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.
This is an incredibly subjective question. From what I have seen and begun testing on my own, RED delivers exceptional quality, if you know what you are doing. That means getting to know how the camera shoots. Those who master it, will go on to love this camera and use it on everything from music videos on up through feature films.

It's not just a 35mm vs RED question. In terms of overall look, that's something you can only come to the conclusion if you know what both systems are capable of. And 35mm involves various film stocks, so then you have to factor that in. So many variables.

If it were me and I was trying to decide between 35mm and RED, I'd do a side by side test using the film stock I'd want for a particular scene and then I'd run the RED right along side it. Take it through post with a grade and see what you like. If that's too expensive, which it could be, then you have to make as informed a decision as you can, which means lots of homework, lots of talking to experienced RED shooters who also shoot film, and see what makes sense for your project.

I am working with a director who has this same question. He has been committed to shooting his film on 35mm and when I discussed RED, he said he would only go that route if he could see something projected in a theatre. Fair enough. He won't make the choice blindly, based on any kind of info I would give him about RED.

mezmo

03-10-2008, 09:26 PM

Guys,

If you search through the threads going back a few months - I posted the same information here that I said in that video.

The Cube + a very full version of SCRATCH = 55K turnkey.

The Cube, by the way, is a very serious beast. Dual quad-core, 3G RAM, NVidia FX4600-SDI, and 4TB of RAID5 storage in a removable disk pac. It is a great system for on-set, but is also a great system for regular old 2K DPX work. We have several customers using the cube for a combination of RED and 2K DPX DI.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Hi Luki, I'll have TEN,.......maybe not.
Is the disk pac compatable with other systems, I've seen them used by
other grading systems, is there a standard yet?
And does the Cube come with a control interface for that turnkey.
thanks Mezmo

Lucas Wilson

03-10-2008, 10:47 PM

Hi Luki, I'll have TEN,.......maybe not.
Is the disk pac compatable with other systems, I've seen them used by
other grading systems, is there a standard yet?
And does the Cube come with a control interface for that turnkey.
thanks Mezmo

To my knowledge, the disk-pac is not compatible with anything else. There really isn't a standard for this yet. Everybody uses something slightly different.

The Cube does not come with a control interface.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

mezmo

03-11-2008, 07:06 AM

Thanks for that,
Mezmo

Torrey Loomis

03-19-2008, 04:40 AM

So, has anyone actually been able to get the list price for SCRATCH, fully-configured? If so, I think the number would be of great interest to this community...

PB,

Its right here:

http://silverado.cc/shop/home.php?cat=8

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 . FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our 4K Market at http://www.silverado.cc

Andrew M.

03-19-2008, 05:57 AM

If you want to actually finish your job and deliver for broadcast count 50-60K minimum.
For film, 70-80K
However it is my situation here, in some cases you can save some and in some cases you can get extra 20K, all depends if you want all bells and whistles or you are ready to compromise.

As Luki said, call him, tell him what you do for living, exactly, and he has a lot of experience in evaluating your minimum requirements. He can save you some $$.$$$ on SCRATCH.

Luki, where is our RED-SCRATCH Light-1080p:-)

Andrew

David Brillhart

03-19-2008, 06:13 AM

So, has anyone actually been able to get the list price for SCRATCH, fully-configured? If so, I think the number would be of great interest to this community...

This is from an Australian reseller who can't sell the system but answered my questions... Scratch starts at $20K (US) in software and builds up to $85K (US) for hardware and grading panels and video IO.

Amazingly difficult information to come by. They must be running drugs...:wacko:
Brillhart

Lucas Wilson

03-19-2008, 07:42 AM

Amazingly difficult information to come by. They must be running drugs...:wacko:

Not that difficult. You just have to email me. Or you could also email our Australian reseller - Future Reality.

I have given out prices to roughly 100 people from Reduser. It just takes an email. :)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com

Lucas Wilson

03-19-2008, 06:18 PM

One more time... :)

SCRATCH is *software* only. Our partners integrate systems that work with SCRATCH. We also have hardware partners that we work with for integrated systems. But SCRATCH is *software* *only*. It is modular software. Depending on the components you add to it, it can cost anywhere from USD 5,000 to USD 65,000.

And all of you know that as far as hardware, you can put together a simple PC without high-bandwidth storage for under USD 10,000. Or you can put together a Skulltrail system tied to a large SAN for USD 200,000. Depends on the needs.

If you want specific prices, email me offlist. About 100 people from Reduser have emailed me. They have all gotten prices. I am now saving this post as a Notepad document on my desktop so I can just copy and paste the next time this comes up. :)

Cheers,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com

Sven Seynaeve

03-19-2008, 08:04 PM

Luki and Assimilate,

The price would get me back to Scratch ,

but I think the system doesn't promise any ability being THAT future proof.
I still keep thinking in about a year or two , computers will have become faster over and over again, maby nvidia or some other brand will have jumped this 4K train, but what will you guys have done in the meantime????....Having spent most of your time defending scatch because it was an unknown brand before and selling as much systems on your current price scheme???

If I were you I would beat the hell out of it and continue development on a more open way , like how this forum is being moderated, if it's moderated at all ???? Even negative interpretations on the red are still being kept.

I've been asking this question now for more then a couple times and I don't want to spent 200k before I've got some clear answer to me , so I'll be sure you won't be out of bizz by nab or ibc 2010. You may even have the funds , I think in the benefit of everyone we would love to see scratch evoluate as much as possible, but just some words on development would be nice to your future customers, why does this seems to be so difficult ????

Me myself i want to able to have a 4k upgrade with an idea what you will charge eventually for it??? That's what we're used to with known software developpers in the past.

Joel Kaye

03-19-2008, 08:19 PM

One more time... :)
...I am now saving this post as a Notepad document on my desktop so I can just copy and paste the next time this comes up. :)

I'm pretty sure I told you a few months ago this would be a recurring theme. You're a little slow on the uptake, but at least now you have a sticky. I'm sure you're a great salesperson 1 on 1.

Welcome to the Internet. :)

Stacey Spears

03-19-2008, 09:00 PM

I am now saving this post as a Notepad document on my desktop so I can just copy and paste the next time this comes up.

Or you could just make it a sticky. :)

Anthony Gratl

03-19-2008, 09:22 PM

Both statements are true and not mutually exclusive...

Lucas

with all due respect lucas, the two statements seem to exclusively contradict each other. 'Not mutually exclusive' is lawyer/salespro speak for "watch me ducking and weaving".....here's the mathematical breakdown....
http://regentsprep.org/Regents/Math/mutual/Lmutual.htm

Nick Wolf

03-19-2008, 09:53 PM

Torrey Loomis

03-19-2008, 10:11 PM

i am getting a little bit confused now - the prices we have got were extremly lower, and: it the scratch full software is 72.000 at silverado, while the cube system is 55.000 with the full software, where is the incentive to get the software only? or does the cube only have a reduced software?

Laguun,

Our preference at Silverado is to sell the software bundles along with support plans built-in from Assimilate. To us, it makes sense that if you are ordering a system like this, then direct developer support is a no-brainer.

You can buy SCRATCH at a price of less than $20,000 USD, but its the additional modules and extensions that add a lot of the power and functionality.

The first bundle is the Dailies bundle consisting of components for viewing dailies on set:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=998&cat=120&page=1

Second bundle is the Conform bundle for working assembly:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=999&cat=120&page=1

Third bundle is Color Grading which enables editing plus scaffolding and color correction:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1000&cat=120&page=1

Finally, there is Finishing which includes everything except S.two digital field recorder support and the kitchen sink:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1001&cat=120&page=1

The MaxCube is a pretty complete system, but it does lack the Camera/Z-Space extension, so you are missing the ability to apply advanced texture mapping with camara and z-space manipulation. Also, since its truly a pre-post system, there are no scaffolds for secondary color correction or tracking within CC.

Prices posted are MSRP. Customers seriously entertaining a SCRATCH system obviously have some wiggle room with their VAR to derive more value out of their acquisition.

One of the things we offer is SCRATCH leasing--not a rental, but a lease with a $1 buyout where you keep the gear. A $140,000 SCRATCH Finishing system can be had for as low as $3300 per month, depending on credit and term chosen.

Our own personal experience for on-set RED workflow shows that a MacBook Pro with a series of RAID 1 drives and an LTO-3A tape drive is a phenomenal value:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=997&cat=0&page=1

This system was used recently to great success on a feature film here in Sacramento.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our 4K Market at http://www.silverado.cc

Anthony Gratl

03-19-2008, 10:15 PM

In all fairness no matter what peoples opinions and points of view happen to be concerning this product or the people who happen to currently represent them on these boards its good to be curtious and show respect.

I get the sence of hyena like behavior the way people are nipping and jabbing at Lukas. Make a valid point and he will answer you, he always has.

He has a job to do and is doing it to the best of his abilities and I think he has always been curtious in his replys. I wouldnt have the patience to deal with getting the same questions over and over again and still maintain some tone of friendlyness. Cut the guy some slack, he is just a guy like you and me he just happens to have the job he has. Someone has to do it. Put yourself in his position for a moment and give him a break.

Take a deep breath and formulate your point of view, but for the sake of the thread and the standard of this community and what it stands for please refrain from badgering like Vulturs.

Dog Day.

a hyena i am not, if you're refering to me. lucas is a big boy firstoff, and I have a lot of respect for him. I'm sure it's not easy, especially with the group of hardcore redusers that we are. And I don't think we'd be discussing with him as much as we are if we didn't like what he's talking about and the product he represents. Then again, as director of marketing, he chose this approach, so if things aren't adding up, he'll get called on it. On the other hand, i don't think he has any obligation to reveal price at all. My comment was simply directed at his specific comment because I didn't agree with what he said in that particular post.
Lucas, no nipping and jabbing intended at all. The link was just supposed to be humourous is all. So maybe I have a twisted sense of humour. But the "not mutually exclusive" line is a classic, as I'm sure you know.

Peace.
And dog day, afternoon to you sir.

Wendy Woods

03-19-2008, 10:46 PM

So, has anyone actually been able to get the list price for SCRATCH, fully-configured? If so, I think the number would be of great interest to this community...

I went to HD Expo in Los Angeles and was talking to someone from PlasterCity Digital Post. I asked him what the price tag for just the software "100K".

I also heard from David Leif at Globalstor that there is only one mother board that can bus the thru-put of the Red Raw files.

all of this is word of mouth.
:devil:

Clint Johnson

03-20-2008, 12:57 AM

A few days ago, we were told...

(...where The Cube is at least $16,437.00)

Today, we were told...

It becomes really interesting...

I don't see anything particular "interesting" about it... if the Cube is $16,347.00 then we must be getting about $38,563.00 worth of Scratch and modules- I presume the ones most useful with the Red in a "pre-post" environment. Surely your calculator can handle subtracting $16,347.00 from $55,000?

Just curious, what is it that you find interesting about this?

Tony Post

03-20-2008, 06:30 AM

Third bundle is Color Grading which enables editing plus scaffolding and color correction:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php...cat=120&page=1

Hello Torster,

Great to see some hard information on the cost of modules and extensions in Scratch. The color correction package seems like a good deal, - "SCRATCH software configuration for color grading of 4k RED ONE material and other data-centric motion picture imagery" - but in the blurb it does not specify that the Media Layer extension is included. Media Layer is necessary for working with Red footage. Is this an oversight?

Also because the Edit module is included, conform is also part of this package right?

Regards

Tony

Sven Seynaeve

03-20-2008, 07:53 AM

Lucas Wilson

03-20-2008, 09:21 AM

Mmost, I'm certainly aware of this, but my question is as simple as this:

WILL THERE BE A 4K output possible as UPGRADE when hardware manufacturers seems to have the sollution for this (and nvidia must certainly have , because they have a system capable acting as 4k server for cinema (seen on their site; http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadroplex.html) ?????
and will Assimilate do the effort to bring us these kind of updates????
That's what especially my clients are asking for????

Will it be available at a reasonable price,
if i have the SAN built already in advance for being capable of this,,

anyway, Nacho and the dutch company , who seems to be some of the close parters to Scratch here completed a "working system for this" as I asked. But they are counting at least €25000 for installing this system in about 3 days with 1 year support contract. Having not that much experience in the field on this , is this normal pricing????? Because they do build it networks, but they have no clue I suppose about making features andso.

Hey Sven,

You may be confused. Nacho has not quoted *anything* with the Quadroplex, because that is not a supported system!!!

Also - you may want to search the threads here. I've stated several times that Quadroplex is not used for 4K serving to a projector. Its architecture simply doesn't support that sort of very high-throughput streaming. SCRATCH *can* feed an SXRD in 4K via Quadroplex. We've done it several times in full 4K. But it isn't realtime playback, so we stopped pursuing it.

If your clients are demanding realtime 4K pixel-for-pixel, then I assume you already have a Sony SXRD, yes?

Lucas
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ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Jeff Brue

03-21-2008, 01:26 AM

We had Scratch doing DI's before it was even announced that they were going with Red. It was a rather pleasent suprise, Lucas is a great fellow, and a friend. Also hate to be the one that says it but if you're hiding behind an Alias throwing insults on a web forum, you're not the one making movies. Get off the forum and make something or at least do what I'm doing and post on red user while you have 10 red renders going, and you're tired out of your mind because of the upheavel this camera has caused.

Lucas Wilson

03-22-2008, 07:09 AM

I went to HD Expo in Los Angeles and was talking to someone from PlasterCity Digital Post. I asked him what the price tag for just the software "100K".

I also heard from David Leif at Globalstor that there is only one mother board that can bus the thru-put of the Red Raw files.

all of this is word of mouth.
:devil:

Hi 2pop,

SCRATCH with all modules and all extensions and everything I can think of to put on it does not come close to 100K. Plus, I'm the guy that sold the system to Plaster City, and I can promise you they didn't pay 100K. :)

Dave Leif was talking about the Skulltrail systems that can do the 1/2 rez High quality in realtime. And he's right, it seems that currently only that mobo has the capacity to do the realtime 1/2 rez High in realtime.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Lucas Wilson

03-27-2008, 03:32 AM

Hi all,

Just fyi - I just moved about 15 posts from this thread to a new one called "Moving Threads." Why? Because those 15 posts had nothing to do with "SCRATCH Price." None of them were deleted, just moved to a more appropriately titled thread. Those of you that wish to continue discussing how and why threads are moved can do so there. I am closing this thread because the question of SCRATCH Price has been asked and answered multiple times. If anyone wishes to re-open the topic, please start a new thread.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA