The new look of the Red battery [Archive]

SF Geek

03-13-2007, 07:40 PM

Hey I hate to complain since I don't have a problem with any of the prices. I'm just not too thrilled about the new look for the battery. I really liked how simple it looked in the photo tour. It also seemed that it was stackable. Now it looks like it has a big Red logo on it where it should have a slot for another battery. Is that the new design? I just feel that it's a little gaudy and less functional. I don't know. Maybe everyone disagrees with me.

Jarred Land

03-13-2007, 07:48 PM

The stacking battery was a good idea, but we found a way of providing a battery that had twice the capacity instead of having 2 of the smaller 70wh batteries stacked on top of each other.. (which would cost you guys more, and throw off the weight distribution each time you added one to the stack.

End decision came down to offering the customer a 140wh cell at a better price then any competitor, (and to us at Red at least) something that has some character.

SF Geek

03-13-2007, 07:51 PM

Cool. Thanks Jarred. What about the Red logo? Is it staying for sure?

Jarred Land

03-13-2007, 07:53 PM

Cool. Thanks Jarred. What about the Red logo? Is it staying for sure?

are you saying you dont like the red logo now?

heh heh heh.

You gotta admit.. It would be funny as hell to see the RED logo batteries on Vlock-Varicams and Sony-Cinealtas.

SF Geek

03-13-2007, 08:00 PM

Oh, it would be funny. I just don't want the Red battery trying to upstage the Red One.

Joel Kaye

03-13-2007, 08:02 PM

End decision came down to offering the customer a 140wh cell at a better price then any competitor, (and to us at Red at least) something that has some character.

I'm looking at 2 150's and a dual charger for $1000 from elsewhere.

How long are the 140's lasting?

Chris Gearhart

03-13-2007, 08:05 PM

I like new look much better.

Alexander Nikishin

03-13-2007, 08:06 PM

The battery looks awesome!

Brook Willard

03-13-2007, 09:04 PM

You gotta admit.. It would be funny as hell to see the RED logo batteries on Vlock-Varicams and Sony-Cinealtas.

Heheh, some embarrassed camera owners will be pulling out the gaff tape for that one. :)

Jarred Land

03-13-2007, 09:43 PM

I'm looking at 2 150's and a dual charger for $1000 from elsewhere.

How long are the 140's lasting?

where is elsewhere?

Joel Kaye

03-13-2007, 10:13 PM

where is elsewhere?

http://www.batteries4broadcast.com/

They've got a 4 pack with a 4 station charger for $1400 (it's only 90wh per unit though). Those are some pretty good deals.

So what kind of battery life on RED can we expect?

Nook Kim

03-13-2007, 10:18 PM

That sound like a very good deal. Thanks for the link.

Nook

Jannard

03-13-2007, 10:42 PM

We are not sure the RED ONE can run loaded with a 90Wh...

Jim

Joel Kaye

03-13-2007, 10:46 PM

We are not sure the RED ONE can run loaded with a 90Wh...

Jim

Well the 150's should work. You should look into whatever those guys are doing. 150's for $385 retail.

What's the charger lemo cable do?

Larry McKee

03-13-2007, 10:46 PM

Do we have any guesses as to the total wattage of the RED with the EVF, LCD and RED Drive?

Jannard

03-13-2007, 10:49 PM

The LEMO allows the charger to act as A/C power to the camera from the wall.

Jim

Pig

03-13-2007, 10:58 PM

Pig

03-13-2007, 11:11 PM

150's for $385 retail.

150Wh no-name for $385.00
or
140Wh genuine Red for $450.00

I think the Red is the clear choice here! There's not much savings going with a no-name, non-OEM product, and it makes me realize even more that Red is CERTAINLY not overcharging (pun intended) on batteries!

Jeff Kilgroe

03-13-2007, 11:34 PM

For more money than what Red offers you could also go all out and get a fuel cell solution:
https://jadoopower.com/solutions.html
About $3000 for a 130Wh & a 360Wh cell, refill station, and power unit.

There's plenty battery options out there. Some are great; some NOT good and unreliable.

Red seems to offer a SOLID piece of equipment for a reasonal price!

I would be seriously interested in the fuel cell option, but... The power unit is about the same size as the RED One with battery, drive and other accessories. OTOH, that Jadoo unit could be seriously cool for long shoots outdoors where generator power is usually ideal. Instead of compact Honda generators (about the same size as Jadoo), you can have a much more expensive solution that is quieter and more environmentally friendly. Fuel cells do look like a great tech for the future though. Of course, there are other alternatives that may come to light. :nuke: :alien:

Joel Kaye

03-13-2007, 11:37 PM

150Wh no-name for $385.00
or
140Wh genuine Red for $450.00

I think the Red is the clear choice here!

You actually think RED makes their own Lithium Ion batteries? No way. Almost no one's in the battery business.

When your 2nd 140 burns out I'll be halfway through my 2nd 150 and have a 3rd one ready to go for less money (based on the 2 battery/ charger combo for $1000 +a third at $385). I think the RED batteries look cool... but I'd rather have 3 150's 'cause running out of juice isn't pretty.

Finner

03-13-2007, 11:59 PM

Nice find Joelnet

They also have a 4charger & 4 battery option for $1,700 for 120wh and $1,900 for the 150wh option. Good prices anyone know if this company will be at NAB and what their battery reputation is like?

Anders Holck

03-14-2007, 12:46 AM

Any info on type of on screen battery gauge with the red batteries on the camera?

a: simple Volt meter type.

b: More advanced algorithm based "Time left" calculation, like Sony's info lithium with cpu in the cells.

PaulClements

03-14-2007, 04:11 AM

Thing is though, does the money you save and the extra bit of power outweigh having the ability to plug your camera into the wall? Seems the Red charger is doing two things... or is there another alternative to plugging the RedOne into the wall?

Having wrote this I checked the 4x150WH Batteries & Charger model and it says:

"...charger with 65 Watt camera power supply"

Does that mean you could use it to power the camera or what? I'm a little confused to be honest haha!

Clayton Harper

03-14-2007, 05:25 AM

To me, the batteries look like something shiny and high-tech.

Not the sort of small, expensive thing you want to draw a lot of attention.

Please make the red logo small enough to cover with a piece of 2" gaff tape.

CVB

03-14-2007, 05:35 AM

Or maybe make the logo 3" in diameter... that way you can put some red stickers on your crappy older batteries and they can serve as decoys.

Mike the beginner

03-14-2007, 05:42 AM

How long can one expect the red batteries to last before they are ready for the bin?

Would it be reasonable to expect three years out of them!

Mike the beginner

Pig

03-14-2007, 06:49 AM

Hey joelnet,
wow, you "assume" a lot there. Let's keep it real:

- No, Red won't manufacture their own battery cells, but they will; a) select the BEST ones available for their equipment, and offer b) the required support/warranty should things go wrong. That's called piece of mind, and for a saving of about $70 bucks per battery, maybe $300 to $400 on a system that totals maybe $20000 it seems an insignificant saving...to me.
- Personally I won't be powering our Red from a $385 pack either though; even THAT is too expensive for me! :bleh: We'll use DIY packs or ones that come in at about $200 for a 150Wh version.

However, IF I were to spend in the $400 range (per pack), it would DEFINITELY be the Red OEM version. They are truly a bargain compared with other cam manufacturers.

You actually think RED makes their own Lithium Ion batteries? No way. Almost no one's in the battery business.

When your 2nd 140 burns out I'll be halfway through my 2nd 150 and have a 3rd one ready to go for less money (based on the 2 battery/ charger combo for $1000 +a third at $385). I think the RED batteries look cool... but I'd rather have 3 150's 'cause running out of juice isn't pretty.

Paris Remillard

03-14-2007, 07:21 AM

<We'll use DIY packs or ones that come in at about $200 for a 150Wh version.>

Where can one find 150wH for $200?

Martin Drew

03-14-2007, 07:26 AM

How long can one expect the red batteries to last before they are ready for the bin?

Would it be reasonable to expect three years out of them!

Mike the beginner

Estimating lifespan of the Red battery would be very difficult to predict without know more about them, lithium ion batteries are not all created equal. There are some very fancy new Lithium Ion technologies about now.

Generally Lithium Ion battery capacity drops over time and eventually they just won't hold enough charge to be useable. I would hope to get a minimum of 2 to 3 years out of a Red Battery, if it lasts longer then great.

M

Clayton Harper

03-14-2007, 07:59 AM

Or maybe make the logo 3" in diameter... that way you can put some red stickers on your crappy older batteries and they can serve as decoys.

hehehe :bleh:

Ken Willinger

03-14-2007, 08:39 AM

I think it is great that RED is offering their own battery system and only natural that they should design a complete system. If you don't already have a battery system in place it would probably be a good choice to go with thiers, but keep in mind it is not the only choice.

In my experience having worked with video cameras for more than 20 years, never have I had batteries from the same manufacturer of the camera. Actually with all the pro video cameras I've used and owned, RCA (back in the day), Sony and Ikegami I've only used two battery manufacturers...Anton Bauer and PAG (because the company owned them). The majority of the time it has been AB.

Currently I own AB LI but have recently added some of the Chinese LI batts because they are half the cost of the AB products. The drawback is you cannot charge them on the AB system. But so far they appear to be as robust as the AB system. I'm sure the RED batt system will be top notch, but as with other pro camera systems you do not have to be locked into their power system. There are a lot of choices available right now and for very reasonable costs. Here's one of the Chinese systems I recently saw on EBAY (not the one I have but similar):
http://cgi.ebay.com/160Wh-Beillen-Li-Ion-Charger-Batteries-w-Anton-Bauer_W0QQitemZ320050684700QQcategoryZ43447QQrdZ1Q QssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

It would be nice if RED made an AB power pack available as well as the V mount power pack for those of us out there with a complete AB set-up.

Joel Kaye

03-14-2007, 08:57 AM

Hey joelnet,
wow, you "assume" a lot there. Let's keep it real:

Hey I'm a RED fanboy pretty much all the way, but batteries are pretty much batteries (Ok some testing will show the actual reality) and like others have said it's a mix'n'match world out there. I bought 2 batteries from DVXuser that Panasonic didn't make. Worked great.

So where are you getting your cells and V-Mount cases?

Pig

03-14-2007, 09:28 AM

$200 for 150Wh => NOT V-Mount

PaulClements

03-14-2007, 09:37 AM

...There are a lot of choices available right now and for very reasonable costs. Here's one of the Chinese systems I recently saw on EBAY (not the one I have but similar):
http://cgi.ebay.com/160Wh-Beillen-Li-Ion-Charger-Batteries-w-Anton-Bauer_W0QQitemZ320050684700QQcategoryZ43447QQrdZ1Q QssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

It would be nice if RED made an AB power pack available as well as the V mount power pack for those of us out there with a complete AB set-up.

Interesting Getken that the ones on eBay that you have pointed out appear to be the same manufacturer as the ones being sold through Batteries4Broadcast.com. My guess is that both sets are from the same manufacturer and are simply relabeled.

Interestingly this kind of business of remodelling extends deep into most businesses. For example i had a conversation with someone about laptops, and the crux of the conversation was that there was only about 4 major developers in the world producing them. And the likes of Apple, IBM, Dell etc all went through those developers and repackaged them in different housings etc.

Getken, do your batteries look similar to these ones? Because if they do then they are probably from the same manufacturer, and your opinion that they are as robust as the AB ones makes the $1000 pricetag for 2 150WH with Charger/60w Power Supply seem very reasonable. Could you post a pic of your ones?

Pig

03-14-2007, 09:48 AM

That eBay link from Getken is interesting, and with two batts and a charger, THAT is quite a good deal. With that pricing it makes much sense.

They are Beillen batteries that use LG Li-Ion cells (LG makes quality cells).

Ken Willinger

03-14-2007, 10:37 AM

do your batteries look similar to these ones? Because if they do then they are probably from the same manufacturer, and your opinion that they are as robust as the AB ones makes the $1000 pricetag for 2 150WH with Charger/60w Power Supply seem very reasonable.

I think all the Chinese batts are coming from the same manufacturer as all I've seen look exactly the same...but I may be wrong. There may be different cells in the same looking case. Mine are almost a year old and are working great. I did not get the multi charger with them. I bought 2 160's and each came with it's own charger (at no extra cost). Between my AB and these 2 160's I've not run out of power in a single day job.

Martin Drew

03-14-2007, 10:41 AM

Hey I'm a RED fanboy pretty much all the way, but batteries are pretty much batteries

Tell that to Sony http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php :clown2:

M

Joe Aurili

03-14-2007, 10:42 AM

Christian Berg

03-14-2007, 10:47 AM

Pig

03-14-2007, 10:54 AM

Tell that to Sony [URL="http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php"]http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php[/URL

Yikes! :)

"An onlooker reported that the notebook continued to burn, producing several more explosions over the course of about five minutes."

<ahem> No one had a fire extinguisher? I guess it was just too intriguing to watch! Of course, once the Li ignites, it's tought to put out. :excl:

Jaime Vallés

03-14-2007, 11:29 AM

Jim, or anyone at RED, will the charger be able to charge the batteries while it runs as a powersupply directly to the camera? Just hate my Panasonic charger, whats the point not beeing able to charge while shooting?

Charge and powersupply at the same time, please...
Thanks for bringing this up, Christian!

I fully second that request. The DVX battery charger is infuriating for that reason. If I can use the battery on my RED and then use the wall plug while the battery charges, that would make my life a whole lot easier.

Joel Kaye

03-14-2007, 12:16 PM

Tell that to Sony http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php :clown2:

M

Li-Polys burn/explode and it doesn't matter who makes them. They aren't stable batteries. We're talking lithium ion here. Plus RED is metal... if your battery explodes the camera's still OK! In fact, they probably could add that as a benefit! :-)