RED HANDLES.. they suck.

[A. Bastaki]

YES, Both... Left and Right... ive got both casts... the matte finish and the glossy looking one.

THEY both don't tight at all.. not even close. my fingers have gone numb trying to press on the screws... the hex slot has lost its edges.. curved out from ratcheting... and it's still so loose.

i've seen a pic with a guy pushing the gap all the way and the thing would be still loose... how can this problem be fixed without sending it back to red?

and it's a serious issue... my work depends a lot on handheld shooting... many have this problem as im sure many have ordered base production packs. I hope red fixes this problem with their future handles
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[Barry Green]

Dumb question, but I gotta ask: you do know that the wingnut can be pulled away from the hex and repositioned so that you can tighten it further and further, right?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Barry, I can confirm this issue with the RED handles. It's not just a wingnut issue in many cases. It's a cast-component issue. I have seen some handles that tighten up and work great and I've seen some that just don't fit right and will not tighten down all the way.

[Anders Holck]

Im sorry to say this, but they suck just as much in Denmark as in Abu Dhabi. It just doesnt work.

It's not about tightening the wing-nut enough, but more about the diameter tolerence and the friction of the handle/rod connection.

And the same is true with the dovetail/shouldermount, the tolerances are just way off.

[A. Bastaki]

yes i do know that the wing-nut can be pulled, re-positioned (and/or rotated) and pushed again.
________
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[Shawn Bannon]

Isn't there a QC before these items are getting shipped out? Several people are reporting the same problems. And its giving RED accessories a poor reputation. You shouldn't have to jerry-rig a brand new piece of equipment. I've read about people putting tape on the dovetails and washers to make items tight.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

yes i do know that the wing-nut can be pulled, re-positioned (and/or rotated) and pushed again.
this is not good but we can not do anything about it.there was several threads about this issue but nobody had an action for it .
in Lates Big JON Faq update he mentioned something about quality issue
but he didn't make clear statement about it here is what he said
LINK http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7464

Difficulty in getting satisfactory casting quality is creating a back order situation on most cast parts. This is creating an issue with camera delivery, as all cameras are being ordered with Base Production Packs, additional mounts and accessories. We are working feverishly on resolving the parts quality issue and hope to have complete stock soon. Our customer service team (Bomb Squad) is now servicing one thousand customers on an individual one on one basis. The number of customers increase by 250 every two weeks. We are refining the process on a daily basis, but there are going to be issues on both sides, based on communication errors, parts backorders, obsolete email contact info and a dozen other things. Please bear with us. If you have a problem with your purchase experience, you can email me directly, before it becomes a BIGGER problem and you feel like taking it to the boards, at jon@red.com. I've got broad shoulders and am here to help.


Any way i am planing to visit some nuts store
Try having a small collection of acessories which i may need it for tighten red pecies

[Adam Levins]

duck tape (to make the rod diameter thicker).... till red fix this

[A. Bastaki]

i got it sorted.. i needed like a bazillion washers. and a towel to soften the push on the fingers... i was able to pull it through. though the handles still turn around.

the glossy surfaced one was a lot easier to fix... i just needed a cloth to really turn the knob around. I was able to have it tightened well. pics coming soon.
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[Elizabeth Lowrey]

As prevalent as the accessory hardware problems are proving to be, and as long as these problems have been going on, I'm frankly shocked that Jim hasn't issued one of his personal assurances that "everything will be made right, just give us time" statements. There's no question but that the handles, shoulder pad/dovetail, and baseplate are proving defective in an alarming percentage of cases. And since defective support gear for a 25-30K camera rig carries with it risks considerably higher than the value of those support pieces themselves, I feel a statement of acknowledgment and pledge from Jim (or from someone on his behalf) is well overdue.

I should add that I am far from one of these "entitled" RED users who think because this is such a fantastic product and company that I have a right to demand -- and receive -- anything I want whenever I want. I was vocal when I felt others were far too impatient and pushy regarding Windows workflow support and RED's exclusive agreements with Apple, even though I am firmly a Windows-based editor. I just don't see that there's any cause for "kicking the idea around [without] promises or guarantees," as Brent put it in another thread. When products aren't fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are intended and would not pass without objection in the trade, they are, by legal definition, defective and the onus is on the seller to make that defect right.

[Jarred Land]

All,

I do apologize for the inconsistencies that some of you are experiencing. We are making changes in a real time environment, and a few of you are seeing the results of that.

I hope everyone understands that these issues are not from us choosing to make compromises, we are just moving at a million miles an hour, and we are dealing with these issues as fast as possible. Quality issues are not something we take lightly.

You guys arn't wrong for expecting more, so do we, and if its any assurance to you, you can take comfort that our accessories are getting better every day, just like it has with the cameras.

[Tony Lorentzen]

The most important question to be answered here is whether or not people with these problems will get replacement parts or not?

[Jarred Land]

If we sent you a part that is defective, we will replace it. That doesn't include running changes for things like focus marks etc, but if we sent you something that doesnt work, we will fix it. It's been our policy since day one to take care of you guys by doing what's fair and it always will be.

[Mark Pugh]

If we sent you a part that is defective, we will replace it. That doesn't include running changes for things like focus marks etc, but if we sent you something that doesnt work, we will fix it. It's been our policy since day one to take care of you guys by doing what's fair and it always will be.

Jarred - a shoulder dovetail plate that rocks around under the baseplate - would you define that as "doesn't work"?

[Jarred Land]

the shoulder dovetail isnt a compression wedge like a base plate, its a pin lock, so some movement is to be expected.

[Rick Darge]

If we sent you a part that is defective, we will replace it. That doesn't include running changes for things like focus marks etc, but if we sent you something that doesnt work, we will fix it. It's been our policy since day one to take care of you guys by doing what's fair and it always will be.



I can vouch for this statement.. Red customer support is THE BEST customer support I have ever received for a product... period. :gun:

[Mark Pugh]

the shoulder dovetail isnt a compression wedge like a base plate, its a pin lock, so some movement is to be expected.

Then Red should make a statement that the shoulder dovetail is not suitable for mounting a camera on a tripod.

[Jarred Land]

hey Mark your comments are noted.

The shoulder plate will mount on a tripod just fine, it just wont be as solid as it looks like your hoping for. The shoulder dovetail's primary purpose is to be used on your shoulder. We make the cheeseplate that attaches to the baseplate for when you want to have a rock solid base with zero movement, if thats how you plan on using it.

[Mark Pugh]

Thanks, Jarred you're right.
I've got the cheeseplate, and should use it.
The only small bummer is that it takes a few minutes to change from cheeseplate to shoulder dovetail (I always have the side mounts on to help protect the camera).

[Mark Pugh]

Jarred, why don't you make a wedgeplate with compression that fits the baseplate, or redesign the shoulder dovetail so that it does so? That shoulder dovetail is so complex at the moment - full of plates, screws, springs, lubricants, Plastic bits... and there is only a limited number of positions it can be slotted into in the baseplate - balance on a tripod can be pretty close but not necessarily perfect. The wheel's been re-invented here, and the original wheel works much better, I'm afraid.

[Warren Kommers]

The old wheel: ET 15mm or 19mm base. Buy it. It's worth it. My red base is still in the bubble wrap. I'm pretty happy with my configs.

My handles besides not matching seem to hold OK. I will use them with ET's shoulder mount when that comes out for handheld use. However the universal mounts, top mounts, and other parts don't match. It's sort of all over the place. The guys at ET actually thought the RED cast parts are better than the anodized ones but not quite as pretty or scratch resistant. I just want consistency. Camera people sure are an anal bunch.

[Costelloe Michael]

Guys,

I'm sure we've all read the baseplate and handles QC issues on these threads quite a few times. I sympathise with those that have ordered them and they are poor in quality because of tolerance issues. Simply vote with your feet. Send them back and ask for a refund. It's what you would do with any other product you find defective.

I'm quite surprised that people are surprised. I don't want my camera taking longer because Red are too busy making a minor part fit right. Want some handles? Go buy some mountain bike side handles and have some 15mm and 19mm brackets miiled up at your local small engineering store or visit your local hire house they probably have some they can sell you cheap. Don't find the Red baseplate too useful? Buy the ET baseplate instead.

Gear that evolves at this rate will have these issues. I'm not saying you should accept it, customer feedback is the way towards improvement. I've spent quite few years in the field adapting things to make 'major' camera manufacturers systems, and sometimes lack of systems, work for the situation we find ourselves in. Wetting T shirts to keep 1000' mags cool in Africa, gaffer taping handwarmers around eyepieces to keep them from freezing in the arctic are amongst the more extreme. But most days there is something to be invented or adapted to work 'properly'. The point is that things that don't work get sent back to the hire house or manufacturer and we hire or buy other solutions.

Red have said before they will address this issue, I'm pretty sure they will, they have been pretty responsive about most issues. Maybe they should have a special forum section for 'gripes' and 'venting'. However many positive things are said about a system it is usally the negative that is remembered. I would suggest people talk to Red first and foremost and by all means post here and let us know if they shrug you off or you don't get a satisfactory answer.

My 2 pence worth anyway. :whistling:

Mike C

[chuckt]

You get what you pay for.
If you want a perfect camera, go buy Some other camera.
RED has already made it abundantly clear that they do not have a perfect product.
Buyer beware.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

It's not so much about the camera, mind you.

[Jörgen Persson]

You get what you pay for.
If you want a perfect camera, go buy Some other camera.
RED has already made it abundantly clear that they do not have a perfect product.
Buyer beware.

Is the "t" in "chuckt" short for troll?

[Mark Phelan]

chuckt, what is your main maladjustment? Every comment you have is negative. You don't own a RED, all you do is gripe about something you have no personal experience with. Do you actually think folks are listening to your tripe?

[Shawn Nelson]

This must be a quality control ramp-up issue. I got two front handles, and while I do have to tighten them good, they do become solid. Also my shoulder dovetail is tight, I use it on a tripod all the time. In fact, the tolerances are so tight, that when Red is fully loaded, it's difficult to slide it. I mounted it on a swooping JimmyJib the other day via the shoulder dovetail and it was rock solid.

[donatello b]

you have #27 - you do not have the "cast" bottom plate, dove tail ,universal mount , handles etc ...
i'm not sure what they call the early method ( maybe machined?) before they were cast ?

it's the "cast" products that are having some issues ...

[Jarred Land]

You get what you pay for.


this is true.. but quality (good or bad) is long remembered after the price is long forgotten.

[Hans von Sonntag]

this is true.. but quality (good or bad) is long remembered after the price is long forgotten.

Good saying!

Does fit perfectly into filmproduction. Clients forget how cheap their film was, they never forget the hassel they had and the questionable quality they got. One reason why dumping into a market is often a boomerang.

Hans

[Evin Grant]

I've found just adding washers to the little ratchet handles does wonders for the tightening ability of all the Red accessories.

[Chris B. Hill]

the shoulder dovetail isnt a compression wedge like a base plate, its a pin lock, so some movement is to be expected.

Hi Jarred,
As I stated on an earlier thread the "BASE PRODUCTION PACK's RED Bottom Plate Shoulder Dovetail" may have been designed with shoulder mount operation in mind, but it should have been much more stable to be adequately tight for tripod use, otherwise as repeated from an earlier thread it should have be noted to eveyone buying this part before purchase that this plate should only be used for handheld and not to be used for tripod use at all.

My suggestion fix for this part is...

1. Add beefy washers on the 4 weak side holes. To prevent an accidental breakage of the side holes. Or modify the part to screw the plate down from the bottom of the camera.(see link)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8756

2. Change the locking mechanism to a side clamping system similar to Arri’s baseplate side braking system this will allow an infinite amount of lock down positions for a more precise camera balance not just where the hole lines up which is about an inch between lockdown positions. It will also stop the looseness & wiggle room in the current base plate & dovetail gap.

3. Add a safety lock like in Arri’s base plate & dovetail so the camera can’t slide right off the back or front of the dovetail when the brake is off.

Thanks for listening to all of our feedback.
Chris B. Hill
http://www.hilldigital.com/

[Mark Pugh]

Hi Jarred,
Change the locking mechanism to a side clamping system similar to Arri’s baseplate side braking system this will allow an infinite amount of lock down positions for a more precise camera balance not just where the hole lines up which is about an inch between lockdown positions. It will also stop the looseness & wiggle room in the current base plate & dovetail gap.


Right on.

[Casey Green]

the shoulder dovetail isnt a compression wedge like a base plate, its a pin lock, so some movement is to be expected.


hey Mark your comments are noted.

The shoulder plate will mount on a tripod just fine, it just wont be as solid as it looks like your hoping for. The shoulder dovetail's primary purpose is to be used on your shoulder. We make the cheeseplate that attaches to the baseplate for when you want to have a rock solid base with zero movement, if thats how you plan on using it.


Hi Jarred,
As I stated on an earlier thread the "BASE PRODUCTION PACK's RED Bottom Plate Shoulder Dovetail" may have been designed with shoulder mount operation in mind, but it should have been much more stable to be adequately tight for tripod use, otherwise as repeated from an earlier thread it should have be noted to eveyone buying this part before purchase that this plate should only be used for handheld and not to be used for tripod use at all.

My suggestion fix for this part is...

1. Add beefy washers on the 4 weak side holes. To prevent an accidental breakage of the side holes. Or modify the part to screw the plate down from the bottom of the camera.(see link)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8756

2. Change the locking mechanism to a side clamping system similar to Arri’s baseplate side braking system this will allow an infinite amount of lock down positions for a more precise camera balance not just where the hole lines up which is about an inch between lockdown positions. It will also stop the looseness & wiggle room in the current base plate & dovetail gap.

3. Add a safety lock like in Arri’s base plate & dovetail so the camera can’t slide right off the back or front of the dovetail when the brake is off.

Thanks for listening to all of our feedback.
Chris B. Hill
http://www.hilldigital.com/

Yes. Very Well put. Please listen to these valuable suggestions from an industry veteran. The idea that the dovetail / baseplate is fine "as is" is just not right.

Jim, I sincerely hope that something is done regarding the inconsistencies in the baseplate and dovetail accessories as well as the quality of the finish (lesser issue). I still am perplexed by the change from the advertised anodized versions to the cast versions of the accessories, but the fact that the base plate and dovetail issues are now being spoken of by Jarred as "some movement is to be expected" is very disconcerting. I really do believe that this is not consistent with RED's excellent track record. It seems out of place, not to mention that this was not mentioned in the description of the product. I just am very surprised by it and especially that RED is not taking care of this as a high priority issue.

There have been several suggestions of how to fix the problem and also many suggestions to buy third party products, but that does not change the fact that accessories were purchased based on the advertised specs and photos of the products.

It actually pains me to have to publicly criticize RED for this issue, since I am a huge advocate of the Camera and your company, but I just feel very strongly that this needs to be addressed. From reading the other threads, there seems to be many many others who feel the same way. See thread below:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8889&highlight=dovetail

As a member of the RED community, we have always lived by the philosophy that we should speak up when we feel something is wrong and should be addressed.

I only want what is best for the Camera and it's users, so I felt it necessary to voice my concerns here and hope that RED does the right thing here and provides a solution to this issue.

[Brent J. Craig]

If we sent you a part that is defective, we will replace it.

I guess what many people are asking is if a part looks completely different from the sales site and is much less finished, is it defective?

[Brent@RED]

I guess what many people are asking is if a part looks completely different from the sales site and is much less finished, is it defective?

As Jarred posted in another thread:

"We have addressed the finishing irregularities with a new process. This is a running change that is almost complete.

Most of the parts we have sent out were just fine ( as reported here ) but some of you may have gotten some parts that don't have a finish that lives up to expectations. You can contact customer service and send them back, and we will update them with the new finish."

Defective, no. If you feel your part does not have the expected finish, we'll update the finish, yes.

BC

[Brigham Edgar]

After writing a few comments in another thread on 'sexy v crappy' i must say with what i have read from Jarred and Brent i am happy enough. My camera is paid for and just waiting for delivery and so the next test will be when i get all the accessories. I still must say i will be dissapointed they won't be machined as other buyers received but if the handles and other gear works, looks the part and has RED saying just send it back if it doesn't work and we'll replace it i'm good...enough.

But one more question...whom shall i ask will be responsible for freight and import charges, taxes etc if i have to do this? I guess it'll be me?

[Jason Ing]

As Jarred posted in another thread:

If you feel your part does not have the expected finish, we'll replace it, yes.

BC

There it is. That's what I expect to hear from Red. :weight_lift:

[Mark Pugh]

I still must say i will be dissapointed they won't be machined as other buyers received but if the handles and other gear works, looks the part and has RED saying just send it back if it doesn't work and we'll replace it i'm good...enough.


Gotta say, I think the matte handles work great - they're for protecting the camera body and for gripping, and matte offers better grip.

[Mark Pugh]

oops - I'm talking side handles, not "RED Handles"

[Brent@RED]

Ok, guys, here is the deal. If you think an accessory part does not have a finish that meets your expectations, please get us those parts at a convenient time that does not affect your shooting schedule. We will get the finish updated to our current coating specifications. Note, this process can take up to two weeks.

If you think a part is out tolerance, please let us know. If it is, the part will be replaced.

If you have any questions, please ask your sales rep or PM me.

BC