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View Full Version : How tight is the dovetail supposed to be???


Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 03:48 PM
Hi all. . .

At long last, #791 has arrived! I'm thrilled. . . quite nervous. . . but still thrilled.

Here's my first question:

The dovetail seems IMPOSSIBLY tight on the RED production pack base. I mean, I'd have to beat this thing on with a hammer to get it on, but surely that's not supposed to be that way. If I DO beat it on, I'll never be able to yank it off. Am I the only lucky one???? Any recommendations as to what we might do with this problem?

Stephen
Jeremy Newmark
03-10-2008, 04:11 PM
We've got the same problem with ours, except that it is on and it's not coming off! I was going to call or email about it today, but I have not gotten to it yet.
Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 04:19 PM
Yep. . . there is NO WAY that if pound this sucker on it will ever come off again. . . but since we need it to be able to be removed for all sorts of reasons, this isn't a terrific situation. Certainly resolvable, however.

I am thinking of trying some sort of light oil or grease to see if that would help, but, as it is, it is WAY too tight to be useable in its present incarnation.

Thanks for letting me know that we're not the only ones.

Stephen
CGranel
03-10-2008, 05:14 PM
I had the same problem and found that the button that locks it to the bottom plate does not retract low enough to pull the dovetail off. I just had to manually push it down to slide it off. As fare as sliding it on the finish probably is what is making so tight it will loosen with use.
Hope this helps.

Good luck,
CG
Jeremy Newmark
03-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Thanks CG,

But this is not the problem with ours. The pieces simply are to tight.
Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 05:42 PM
Same story with ours. . . I can't even get the dovetail on enough to have to worry about the button. It's a tight fit!

A gentleman from RED suggested I try a little lithium grease and we'll see if that makes a difference. If not, it'll have to go back.

Stephen
david farland
03-10-2008, 06:06 PM
The locking pin needs a little use before placing on bottom plate.

Realise the pin comes up at an angle and is sprung to move up and down slightly as the bottom plate is passes over it.

Remember the bottom plate should only be slid over the locking plate/shoulder dove tail in ONE direction. That is, the arrows on the base of the bottom plate should be facing forward (towards lens) as you slide it one the dovetails and over the locking pin.

do it the other way and force the locking pin up when its not aligned with one of the holes in the bottom plate will results in jamming it.

to unjam I'd use wooden dowel with rubber hammer although I used an allen key with raw hide hammer....be nice!!

Play with it off the camera a bit.....

Dave,
Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 06:34 PM
No luck with the lithium grease. . . it's better, but still too tight to use without having a really big mallet handy.

:-)

Stephen
Finner
03-10-2008, 06:38 PM
Hi all. . .

...Any recommendations as to what we might do with this problem?

Stephen

www.elementtechnica.com
Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 06:46 PM
Too late for that path now, Finner. . .

:-)

I have contacted RED about a replacement for the dovetail and the bottom plate. I suspect that they will address this issue with both speed and skill.

:-)

Stephen
Prem Edpuganti
03-10-2008, 08:00 PM
Without seeing the hardware I can't comment but reading various threads I understand Red has a problem of one sort or another with this dovetail. Before, fit was too loose and camera was falling off. Wasn't Brent holding up deliveries just for this reason. It appears problem is the opposite now, fit too tight.

For the life of me I can't understand why it is so hard to design and build a decent dovetail. After all, it is one of the basic components in many machine tools. They all use a wear plate for adjusting the fit. Nobody has to reinvent it for crying out loud.

The dovetail is certainly not on par with other accomplishments of Red. My post doesn't help any of you, just my frustration with Red as they do not seem to seek help when they actually need it. All I know is I am going to design and build my own tools when the time comes to use this camera.

For all of you accomplished guys in your trade, I feel sorry you got stumped by this silly device.
Brent@RED
03-10-2008, 08:46 PM
As has been mentioned in other threads, we are working on the DOVETAIL and BOTTOM PLATE mating issue. It is not a "magic wand" thing, it does take a little time. Like RED proves time and time again, we hear feedback from customers and are willing to take action. We are working on it....

BC
Clint Johnson
03-10-2008, 08:57 PM
Wherever Red owners gather, they will be mixing and matching their components, trying to find the Goldilocks pairing of dovetail and bottom plate.
Stephen Pruitt
03-10-2008, 09:04 PM
Too funny, Clint. . .

I'm hoping this won't be a long-term issue.

:-(

Stephen
CGranel
03-10-2008, 09:46 PM
Hey Stephen,

I had the same problem and had a hell of a time getting mine on and the off like I said earlier. This evening I was playing with it and it is working great.
Maybe you should do what you have to get it on then off to see if it helps.
Other then that sorry to here and hope it gets fixed soon.

CG
Prem Edpuganti
03-10-2008, 09:51 PM
As has been mentioned in other threads, we are working on the DOVETAIL and BOTTOM PLATE mating issue. It is not a "magic wand" thing, it does take a little time. Like RED proves time and time again, we hear feedback from customers and are willing to take action. We are working on it....

BC

Brent:

I am glad you are watching the thread.

Send me your drawings, I will see whether I can help you. Surely, there can be nothing proprietary in these drawings.
Brent@RED
03-10-2008, 09:58 PM
Prem, lol, thanks for the offer. We are pretty far along in the eval and expect some more info soon!

BC
Paris Remillard
03-10-2008, 10:06 PM
I just asked this question in another thread, but is there a reason that Red didn't use standard ARRI dovetails in the baseplate design? It seems like it would have made things a bit easier and given more options for integration with other accessories. I know this doesn't help with the issues. Just a question.
Matt Uhry
03-11-2008, 11:33 PM
I just asked this question in another thread, but is there a reason that Red didn't use standard ARRI dovetails in the baseplate design? It seems like it would have made things a bit easier and given more options for integration with other accessories. I know this doesn't help with the issues. Just a question.

I find that strange too. Even if you decide to buy the production pack I think getting the Element 19 or 15mm base is a good idea too - just spend the money and move on. You'll be much happier.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
tj williams
03-12-2008, 10:09 PM
finner..... yea baby!!!! element technica and sim....

or maybe we should all bring all our parts to NAB and sit alongside the tent introducing our parts to each other in the attempt to achieve a perfect fit. Are you Redy for that!!!
Joel Kaye
03-12-2008, 11:24 PM
That's amazing. The last batch was too loose and this batch is too tight. I actually think the production pack will work OK for me once this gets ironed out.
M Hsu
08-15-2008, 03:49 PM
anyone still having problems with this? my dovetail is very solid on the tripod but getting it locked down takes about 5 minutes of wrestling and unlocked requires a flat screwdriver between the release lever and the dovetail to lever it open. The finish is pretty scuffed now. It does work, but man I lose 5 minutes every time I want to put the dovetail on or take it off.