The "Flash options for dummies" thread

[Gunleik Groven]

OK

I am wayy confused on the flash options.

@ once when I saw the multiple flash options I guessed these were dialects of "My ultimate P2 card", basically housings where you can RAID CF cards and record to them. So I started immediately planning to buy a number of 8GB hi-perf flash cards for this purpose. This way I could esily have 64GB a pop on let's say the express card, but as the dust has settled - I guess I was wrong. They probably take only one CF card each?

Yes?

But they are intended for recording?

No?

And why would I want the 1.8" solution?

And why did Red choose 1.8" over 2.5"?
(Not disappointed or anything, just confused)

Could anyone with some insight explain these things?

Cheers!

Gunleik

[Jay A. Kelley]

OK

I am wayy confused on the flash options.

@ once when I saw the multiple flash options I guessed these were dialects of "My ultimate P2 card", basically housings where you can RAID CF cards and record to them. So I started immediately planning to buy a number of 8GB hi-perf flash cards for this purpose. This way I could esily have 64GB a pop on let's say the express card, but as the dust has settled - I guess I was wrong. They probably take only one CF card each?

Yes?

But they are intended for recording?

No?

And why would I want the 1.8" solution?

And why did Red choose 1.8" over 2.5"?
(Not disappointed or anything, just confused)

Could anyone with some insight explain these things?

Cheers!

Gunleik

I LOVE this thread.. I'm with Gunliek on this.. Can we have a Flash for dummies explaination here?
Thanks
Jay

[Billy McCannon]

Yes, please!:

[Greg Voevodsky]

Mike over at http://www.hdforindies.com/
has a basic course from Stuart English of the Red Team in yesterdays blog.

[Mike the beginner]

I LOVE this thread.. I'm with Gunliek on this.. Can we have a Flash for dummies explaination here?
Thanks
Jay

Well here's the dummy! Now where's the flash?


What i am not sure about is can we just have just one flash module or several.

Compact flash has been around for a while now, it is very cheap but will it increase enough to give reasonable storage. Does compact flash provide a buffer within itself to allow for pre-record (presuming red will support it).

Express card is newer and same questions for it. Panasonic claimed that their p2 cards where not like ordinary flash cards, more like a mini computer?

How do these options (other than the obvious large price reduction) fare.

e-sata at 1.8" ? will that limit the speed and storage capacity in the future.

So much choice is great, but only if we choose the right one...or two


Mike the beginner

[Gunleik Groven]

I read up on hdforindies yesterday, and stuarts comment today (dunno if it's allowed to quote, but it helps this thread a bit so I take my chances... Just kick it mods if it's not cool)

"In the context of offering a modular camera with lots of choices - the RED FLASH module is a flash memory read/write option that mounts to the left face of the camera body. There are three versions : CF, Express Bus and 1.8" SATA. Use whichever you prefer.

If you are doing animated movies or short effects sequences, the CF card would be fine. If you like to take a laptop into the field with you, using the Express Card version lets you realize the concept of a P2 card structure, but with non-proprietary media. Or if yo want maximum performance and capacity use the SATA version - which uses the 1.8" SATA drives.

All of these media can be physically removed from the camera, or the data offloaded using the camera's USB-2 port.

Then we have the off-board, but local media choices - RED-DRIVE and RED-RAM, which are both dual 2.5" drive based e-SATA solutions, one with dual hard disks and the other with dual flash memory modules.

Stuart English

Workflow Wizard
RED Digital Cinema"

Still my questions feels kinda valid...

Gunleik

[Dan Blanchett]

I had similar questions on Monday. Some answers can be found on this thread.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=893

[Greg Voevodsky]

Sooo - anyone? I was wondering if there is any chance for either an internal or external "2.5 inch" rather than the smaller 1.8 inch SATA drives? The reason being is that A-DATA is soon coming out with a 128GB SSD which is a lot more than the 2.5 inch drives 32GB Media.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/26/a...to-the-camera/

Any ideas?

Could a 3rd party be allowed to create an external RED SATA 2.5" drive?

[Steve Freebairn]

I'd actually really like the option of using 3.5 inch drives.

[Greg Voevodsky]

as long as they are quiet, or we can dump our RAM to our drive when the camera is not recording - like background rendering.

[Roberto B]

I'd actually really like the option of using 3.5 inch drives.are you nuts man?..

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Greg,

A-DATA plans to release 64GB 1.8" units at the same time they release the 128GB 2.5" units. I'm hoping and probably ass-uming that the 1.8" FLASH module will support two 1.8" devices in a RAID-0 config. If that's so, then it should provide all the performance we need and equivalent capacity to a single 2.5".

Also figure that RED RAM is based on 2.5" SSD. So if A-DATA and others release 128GB drives that have the proper performance and reliability, then I don't see any reason why RED RAM couldn't get a 4X capacity increase within the next year and a huge price cut to go along with it. It will happen, but we're a bit ahead of the curve. RED FLASH and RED RAM are in position to use all the various upcoming solid state storage media we'll see over the next year or two.

[Gunleik Groven]

What is nuts about wanting to use 3,5" in studio situations?

They're cheaper, bigger and faster...

Gunleik

[Greg Voevodsky]

I'd like to see a dual Raid Sata 128GB 2.5" units. That would really rock either in its Raid set up or as 240GB together. I'd spend the extra money over disk drives anyday... one or 2 of these and back up to Raid HD at night would be great.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What is nuts about wanting to use 3,5" in studio situations?

They're cheaper, bigger and faster...

And heavier, bulkier, consume tons more power, etc...

In studio situations with the camera mounted, it would be fine. But that's about it. You're not going to battery power 3.5" HDDs unless you provide a dedicated battery pack or DC power source just for the record unit.

I'm not so sure the gains in you make in cheaper and more GB per device really will benefit anyone. A RED DRIVE as it is provides proper performance and already stores 3 hours of 4K REDCODE RAW at 24fps.

[Gunleik Groven]

Fully agreed, and I'll probably end up with both a Red Drive and a flash solution + EVF & whatever, BUT it is an interesting point to look at what could get you going on a minimal budget.

And I'll end up backing up my footy to duplicated 3,5" drives for quite some time. Maybe in xserve packs, maybe as standalone disks.
I'd save a hell of a lot of time recording directly to 3,5" disks. Time - these days - far outweighs most other hassles...

I mean - you have yorself made some comments of rendering/copying.
To me @ the moment - the time for computer tasks (like rendering and copying) are the most prohibitive for my business, thus I buy new hardware just to sit and do those tasks.

If I could record smoothly directly to a 3,5 sata RAID1, I'd save the time of copying and duplicating the media, and could send it off directly through redcine after recording.

I would not mind that option. Seriously...

But - I contributed to bring this thread OT. Sorry. Let's keep thisone flash oriented!

Cheers!

Gunleik

[Anders Holck]

Gunleik.
One downside to your idea is that the max cable lenght of e-sata is only 2m. Not worth the trouble I think.

[Gunleik Groven]

Agreed.

I am actually NOT questioning the thinking behind.

I'm just getting frustrated with all the hours of "nonproductive work" i'm doing @ the moment. Mostly because I could have spent them otherwise:

Recording & backing up @ he same time is kinda a wet dream. Just go home and convert with redcine without any worries. Would remove one huge and timeconsuming step in the workflow....

Hey: But that's for my 2ndLife -;) Or maybe even halflife!

Cheers!

But again, Let's get back on topic here.

Gunleik

[Chris Gearhart]

And heavier, bulkier, consume tons more power, etc...

In studio situations with the camera mounted, it would be fine. But that's about it. You're not going to battery power 3.5" HDDs unless you provide a dedicated battery pack or DC power source just for the record unit.

I'm not so sure the gains in you make in cheaper and more GB per device really will benefit anyone. A RED DRIVE as it is provides proper performance and already stores 3 hours of 4K REDCODE RAW at 24fps.

Aren't 3.5" drives also more susceptible to vibration/motion damage?

[Gunleik Groven]

Yes they are. Thus I said "Studio situations"

Gunleik
(who really would like to see this thread back on track...)

[Roberto B]

well.. gun..

afraid.. jeff already answered you..