Why YES Canon EOS Lenses [Archive]

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Thom Steinhoff

03-14-2007, 03:04 PM

In the "why Not" thread above, birgerEngineer says a solution is near and sounds like they'll have an announced solution by NAB. Shouldn't we be testing EOS lenses in anticipation of a solution?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=18129&postcount=35

Tom Lowe

03-14-2007, 03:23 PM

Not to hijack, but what about EF-S, as well?

Can anyone explain if there are similarities between the Red sensor and the 20D or XTi style "crop" DLSR sensors?

Erik Widding

03-15-2007, 03:04 PM

Not to hijack, but what about EF-S, as well?

Can anyone explain if there are similarities between the Red sensor and the 20D or XTi style "crop" DLSR sensors?

The cropped sensor and S35 are pretty close in size. An EF-S lens is electrically identical to an EF lens. Mechanically there is a protrusion on the back that will not allow the lens to be placed on an EF full frame mount. Optically, an EF-S lens lights a smaller circle than an EF lens.

That being said, our unit is really an EF-S unit. It will accept the EF-S lenses mechanically, but also has a large enough aperture that an EF lens won't vignette.

Evin Grant

03-15-2007, 03:41 PM

Right now the problem is there is no current Canon DSLR that has the pixel density to accurately emulate the Mysteriums 4K imaging area. The closest is the Rebel Xti at 10MP. But with the crop to 4K 16:9 the Mysterium is 9.4MP if you do a similar crop to the Rebel xti sensor you get 8.2MP. Not to mention the relatively low per pixel resolution of this camera, which seems to resolve no more than the 8MP 30D according to Dpreview.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page24.asp

The whole reason I was even willing to test Nikon lenses for Red was that The Nikon D2x CMOS sensor is an almost identical match in size, pixel density and resolution. So it gave a very accurate representation for what we can expect from these lenses on our Red ones. If someone who owns a Rebel XTi want's to loan it to me as well as some EF Canon lenses I will be glad to test it but it will not be directly comparable to the Nikon lens tests or the real Red images.

Thom Steinhoff

03-15-2007, 06:00 PM

Evin, I'm a little confused. are you saying a 5D or 1DS has a lower pixel density so it doesn't need as good of glass... so a test of Canon lenses on a 5D or 30D wouldn't be a valid test?

That glass shot film great, and shoots fine to a larger sensor area but I would think any breathing/shifting tests would still be valid and at least a step in the right direction.

If someone comes out with a way to control EF lenses and they look as good on the Red as they do on a 1dS--I am so there and I'm sure a lot of others would be tempted as well as it would save me a fortune on lenses as I already have a bunch of great canon lenses.

Evin Grant

03-15-2007, 07:03 PM

It's not that a 5D dosen't need a sharp lens, it's that it's pixel density/FOV is less than Red and the D2x, so it can't be a good stand in. But in a way you are right, it dosen't demand as many lines per MM for the same res.

I have no doubt that the better Canon lenses will perform well on Red, I just don't have an accurate way to test them, sure, I could test for breathing and Bokeh, but I couldn't make any critical observations about resolution, microcontrast, chromatic abberation or diffraction limiting. When I do get my Red I'll try to test as much glass in as many mounts as I can get a hold of. Untill then I don't want to do tests I'll just have to redo later.

Steve Gibby

03-15-2007, 07:20 PM

Evin,

I'm in the L.A. area every week for business. When I get RED #8 I'd be happy to bring it down there and hang out for a few days testing lenses on it: cine, Nikon, Canon (if the mount is ready), and B4 (if we can borrow a B4 adapter from RED).

Evin Grant

03-15-2007, 08:21 PM

I think that's a great idea. If your going to NAB we can make plans there.

Thom Steinhoff

03-15-2007, 08:42 PM

Now you guys are talking! The great thing with all of this is you each have far lower res numbers than most of the rest of us so you'll have all of the best solutions worked out by the time our dollars hit the fan!

Steve Gibby

03-16-2007, 06:46 AM

I think that's a great idea. If your going to NAB we can make plans there.

Excellent....I'll be at NAB on Monday and Tuesday.

As Jim has posted, a few features of the first cameras will need firmware updates, but he has confirmed that 4k REDCODE RAW recording to drives will be available from the start. That's what we'll need to test out the lenses. The cool by-product is that we'll be simultaneously seeing how 4k REDCODE RAW handles the look of various lens types.

Let's talk at NAB...

Joe Carney

03-17-2007, 07:56 AM

I bought my wife a Canon Xti for Christmas, and the stock lens isn't very good. Probably why it was so affordable. Still, offering full support for Canon is great. We are already looking to go to various camera shows to acquire additional lenses. If they are good enough to do double duty on Red, that would be extremely cool.

Steve Gibby

03-17-2007, 08:20 AM

Andrew Walker

03-18-2007, 12:57 PM

Thom Steinhoff

03-18-2007, 01:05 PM

So as I understand this whole Canon mount situation is that to change the iris on any of the EF lenses you would have to pull it off the Red put it on a 20D or something. Change the iris on the 20D then put it back on the Red. If this is right I'm just going to buy some Nikon lenses because that's way too much of a hassel.

That would be the only solution, unless BirgerEngineer comes up with something as he hinted at...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=18129&postcount=35

I'd wait and see what they announce around NAB before going out and buying any Nikon lenses.

Tom Lowe

03-18-2007, 04:12 PM

Last month I bought a black body XTi (400D) as a backup DSLR. I've been testing it out with various lenses. For the price (under $700 on B&H) it has some impressive features...and the pics are looking real good.

I have the 10-22mm wide angle, and I absolutely love it. Of course, it costs as much as the camera (350D), but it's my favorite lens.

this is at 16mm...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/279527936_39e4213c94.jpg

and 10mm...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/311543270_5a261d8b07.jpg

Michael Hastings

03-19-2007, 04:54 AM

BirgerEngineer already has a mount with the electronics incorporated to control iris and focus on the EF (and just as important, the EF-S lens which allows super wide). Apparently it has been in use by industrial/scientific users for several years. All he needs is the physical specs from RED to mount it on the RED. The RED mount for Canon and Nikon are just physical mounts. BirgerEngineer's mount is the physical mount plus all the little pins and electronics necessary to talk to the iris and focus system on the lens. They are working on a mount for the Nikon AF lenses but the iris on the Nikon's use a physical pin to move the iris, with the drive to move that pin inside the camera. The Canon is all motor driven so it is just a matter of controlling the motors electronically.

So as I understand this whole Canon mount situation is that to change the iris on any of the EF lenses you would have to pull it off the Red put it on a 20D or something. Change the iris on the 20D then put it back on the Red. If this is right I'm just going to buy some Nikon lenses because that's way too much of a hassel.

damonbots

03-20-2007, 01:36 PM

My girlfriend really wants a Canon and I've been trying to talk her into a Nikon. I'd love to able to make her happy with a few nice Canon lenses that just happen to fit on my RED camera as well. I admit it, I'm a devious little #@!$. I know it's way early, but any idea of a ballpark figure for this type of solution?