I just got my RED-BUMMER!!!!!

[therosser]

So i just received my RED. Just in the nick of time. i have a shoot that preps today and shoots all next week. Problem is the rods are all 19mm and half of the accessories are 15mm and the other is 19mm. I ordered all 15mm. I verbally discussed this with Brian. All of my matte boxes, follow focuses, etc. are 15mm. I have seen several people on RED USER complain about this kind of problem. NO ATTENTION TO DETAIL. I spent 50K plus for a camera, i expect the stuff to be at least correct. Like i said, Bummer.

-ross

[Brent J. Craig]

Bummer that you are cutting it so close on your shoot. Stuff happens. No sympathy here!

[Shawn Nelson]

Uh...as far as I know, all of the Red accessories are in 19mm, except a choice of a 15mm baseplate. That's the suck thing about going 15mm, you CANT get a 15mm battery/harddrive or 15mm universal mounts, or 15mm handles, or 15mm upper mounts or 15mm side handles.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

yah. im not sure red even sells anything 15mm except for the et arri base and the 15mm adapter. dont think they even have 15mm rods..

[Warren Kommers]

?????

[Blair S. Paulsen]

FWIW I typically run 19mm on the top for the drive/battery cradle and 15mm offset on the bottom to take advantage of the ET sourced base plate / Arri spec slide plate combo. Of course by mixing the two I lose the ability to use the side rails which is a bummer but not a very serious one.

The unfortunate fact is that the existence of 3 different "standards" 15mm video/lightweight, 15mm offset/studio and 19mm studio predated the design of the RedOne. RED chose 19mm studio and IMHO it is the strongest and by virtue of being on center, the best mechanically. Now if we could just get all that 15mm kit retired... :angry03:

[therosser]

I am missing a bunch of stuff. Bottom Plate. Shoulder Dovetail. 15mm adapter. Focus Hook Set. Why build a camera that you have to use two different systems for? Los Angeles is the center of the world for film making and is a 15mm society. As far as 3 different 15mm rods, i have never had an issue with any arri house or panavision using a 15mm rod that was weak or bent. i have operated a genesis camera hand held off the matte box on 15mm rods for weeks and never had an issue. 19mm is big and bulky.

[Brice Ansel]

Los Angeles is the center of the world for film making
Comon dude California isn't the center of the world.

[Chris Burket]

Panavision doesn't use 15mm rods so the genesis was using a different rod standard altogether.

[Brent@RED]

All replies are correct - no 15mm RED product other than the ARRI 15mm BASE and the 15mm ADAPTOR. Also, if you did not receive an accessory item, it was probably not in stock at time of picking. Stuff like the BOTTOM PLATE and DOVETAIL has been on backorder for a little bit but will start shipping again next week. As soon as the accessories you ordered are available, they will ship.

Sorry for any inconvenience, we will get the remainder of your order to you as soon as possible.

If you have any more questions or concerns, please feel free to PM me or Kelly directly.

BC

[Warren Kommers]

FWIW I typically run 19mm on the top for the drive/battery cradle and 15mm offset on the bottom to take advantage of the ET sourced base plate / Arri spec slide plate combo. Of course by mixing the two I lose the ability to use the side rails which is a bummer but not a very serious one.

The unfortunate fact is that the existence of 3 different "standards" 15mm video/lightweight, 15mm offset/studio and 19mm studio predated the design of the RedOne. RED chose 19mm studio and IMHO it is the strongest and by virtue of being on center, the best mechanically. Now if we could just get all that 15mm kit retired... :angry03:

We are in LA and went with 19mm ET base. It was easy to change the MB -14, FF4 and Optimo support to 19mm. That way I can use two side handles on front operator left and rear dumb side for tying cables off to. Very happy with this set up. The only 15mm part left to worry about is when the steadicam guy need to put the motors on. I think the 15mm adapter will work for this as the motors only bite on to one rod.

We need to pressure LA to change anyways. 19 is better in my opinion.

[Gabriel Beaudry]

Problem is the rods are all 19mm and half of the accessories are 15mm and the other is 19mm. I ordered all 15mm.

What accessories you got are 15mm?

[Zach Hilton]

That is frustrating. But it was sort of common knowledge that the Red system and all the accessories were 19mm. The only bad thing is that it's not really documented on the website, which is probably where it is the most important. Hopefully you'll be able to take back or exchange your ff, matte box, and others to 19mm ones. Good luck, and glad you got your camera.

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

15mm is for video on planet Earth and for film in LA. How u ended up with 15mm/gearhead combo in lalaland is a mystery...They are both obsolete for the same but different reason: weigth/strength

[Brent@RED]

We will make it clearer on the website that we are a 19mm shop. FYI, our ROD descriptions do say they are 19mm - but I understand the request for more clarity.

Thanks, BC

[tj williams]

HollyShchollywood....
Your steadi guy should use PReston Fiz, motors work on either 19mm or15mm rods with little slide in adapters.

[therosser]

my MB-14, MB-18, FF-4 are all 15mm. the silly thing about this system is having to deal with two rod systems. the 1st a.c. tells the new straight out of film school loader, "I need the longer Rods." and he brings 19mm ones instead of 15mm. That stuff happens all the time.

Brent, the problem is not that the items are back ordered, the problem is the neither Brian nor Kelly told me they were back ordered. I spoke with both of them the last two weeks at least ten times on the phone and i got an email from Brian saying "I don't have your phone number." Totally disorganized.

And to comment on ChrisBurket's comment. I have done several Genesis jobs, and they were all 15mm.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

We need to pressure LA to change anyways. 19 is better in my opinion.

and the rest of the world stand behind you :weight_lift:

[Jarred Land]

if you dont need to worry about spacing.. the 15mm inserts into the 19mm holes are a good thing to have in your RED bag when you show up to a shoot... just in case.

[Leo Ticheli]

if you dont need to worry about spacing.. the 15mm inserts into the 19mm holes are a good thing to have in your RED bag when you show up to a shoot... just in case.

I'm going totally 15MM for a variety of reasons, and using all Element Technia accessories, (Bridge Plate, Topside Combo, Dovetail, EVF Mount, Video Breakout Box, & Rods), except for the Red Cradle which isn't available from ET.

My only disappointment, is the lack of side handles for 15MM rods; can I use those on ET's 15MM rods with the inserts Jarred suggested?

If so, where can they be obtained?

By the way, both the quality and the service from Element Technica are superb.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo

[Jarred Land]

yes.. you can use the inserts on the handles. Its not the best way to do it, but it does work.

[Yean Loon]

What 15mm inserts?? Where can i get them??

[Jarred Land]

tons of places make them.. here are some ugly ones:

http://www.palomarengineering.net/m-one_parts.htm

[Warren Kommers]

HollyShchollywood....
Your steadi guy should use PReston Fiz, motors work on either 19mm or15mm rods with little slide in adapters.


I figured that might be the case as everything else seems to come with both options. Although you never know what gear people are going to show up with.

[Yean Loon]

...great...i love those side handles..but i need to go lighweight 15mm for my next shoot....thanks...

[Bob England]

Seems ilke a case of poor communication. At the time of shipment, is there no communication from RED to the customer advising what shipped and what's backordered?

[therosser]

there was no communication on my order. i was told in a general email things like the evf weren't shipping. If red isn't going 15mm then i am going to return all these 19mm accessories. I bought all of element technica's stuff and it's great and it looks like their hand held rig is leaps and bounds better than the cheap red stuff. I will correct my statement that Los Angeles is the center of the world for film making, but i myself have shot in over 20 countries and have never seen more production going on then in los angeles. That includes New York, London, Prague and Australia. Los Angeles is a 15mm town. It's not going to change because of the RED camera. Everyone in Europe freaked out when Red wasn't going to make their lenses in meters. FREAKED OUT. People started canceling their lens orders immediately. I know that a couple of pieces of metal made in Singapore is not a money maker for RED, but it's about being part of the market. Most of american television and films are made in los angeles and i know that very shortly studios are going to be more and more interested in RED. the D.P.s and especially the a.c.'s are going to have to go to after market people like element technica for 15mm stuff. Also, there is no way in hell a show like "24" is going to use those hand held grips. they are a joke. I dig how RED is making stuff for the common man, but they've also want it to be big show. If RED wants to really take over, find the fine line of working with systems that are already in place. I have spent 12k on matte boxes alone. They work with arricam, 435 and 416. im not going to spend another 1500 each matte box to get 19mm adapters. And if you think i am going to trust my 50k of stuff on my shoulder with some wanky insert, your crazy. i operate hand held holding the matte box. i put all my weight and torque on the matte box and ultimately the rods. the inserts aren't going to hold up to something like that. Plus fiddling with that on set is time consuming and ridiculous. I hope RED comes to there senses and gives us film makers, where ever in the world we are, the choices we demand and deserve.

[Jannard]

there was no communication on my order. i was told in a general email things like the evf weren't shipping. If red isn't going 15mm then i am going to return all these 19mm accessories. I bought all of element technica's stuff and it's great and it looks like their hand held rig is leaps and bounds better than the cheap red stuff. I will correct my statement that Los Angeles is the center of the world for film making, but i myself have shot in over 20 countries and have never seen more production going on then in los angeles. That includes New York, London, Prague and Australia. Los Angeles is a 15mm town. It's not going to change because of the RED camera. Everyone in Europe freaked out when Red wasn't going to make their lenses in meters. FREAKED OUT. People started canceling their lens orders immediately. I know that a couple of pieces of metal made in Singapore is not a money maker for RED, but it's about being part of the market. Most of american television and films are made in los angeles and i know that very shortly studios are going to be more and more interested in RED. the D.P.s and especially the a.c.'s are going to have to go to after market people like element technica for 15mm stuff. Also, there is no way in hell a show like "24" is going to use those hand held grips. they are a joke. I dig how RED is making stuff for the common man, but they've also want it to be big show. If RED wants to really take over, find the fine line of working with systems that are already in place. I have spent 12k on matte boxes alone. They work with arricam, 435 and 416. im not going to spend another 1500 each matte box to get 19mm adapters. And if you think i am going to trust my 50k of stuff on my shoulder with some wanky insert, your crazy. i operate hand held holding the matte box. i put all my weight and torque on the matte box and ultimately the rods. the inserts aren't going to hold up to something like that. Plus fiddling with that on set is time consuming and ridiculous. I hope RED comes to there senses and gives us film makers, where ever in the world we are, the choices we demand and deserve.

It is a miracle that over ten studio features and several primetime tv shows are now shooting RED.

Jim

[Darren Orange]

I vote that Red will change everything. In fact im sure of it, time is the only question and it seems, certainly sooner rather than later, as it has already started. No one should be afraid of change, embrace it. Fear of the unknown is a common human trait. Cheers to you Jim and the Red Team for changing how the game is played!

[Warren Kommers]

there was no communication on my order. i was told in a general email things like the evf weren't shipping. If red isn't going 15mm then i am going to return all these 19mm accessories. I bought all of element technica's stuff and it's great and it looks like their hand held rig is leaps and bounds better than the cheap red stuff. I will correct my statement that Los Angeles is the center of the world for film making, but i myself have shot in over 20 countries and have never seen more production going on then in los angeles. That includes New York, London, Prague and Australia. Los Angeles is a 15mm town. It's not going to change because of the RED camera. Everyone in Europe freaked out when Red wasn't going to make their lenses in meters. FREAKED OUT. People started canceling their lens orders immediately. I know that a couple of pieces of metal made in Singapore is not a money maker for RED, but it's about being part of the market. Most of american television and films are made in los angeles and i know that very shortly studios are going to be more and more interested in RED. the D.P.s and especially the a.c.'s are going to have to go to after market people like element technica for 15mm stuff. Also, there is no way in hell a show like "24" is going to use those hand held grips. they are a joke. I dig how RED is making stuff for the common man, but they've also want it to be big show. If RED wants to really take over, find the fine line of working with systems that are already in place. I have spent 12k on matte boxes alone. They work with arricam, 435 and 416. im not going to spend another 1500 each matte box to get 19mm adapters. And if you think i am going to trust my 50k of stuff on my shoulder with some wanky insert, your crazy. i operate hand held holding the matte box. i put all my weight and torque on the matte box and ultimately the rods. the inserts aren't going to hold up to something like that. Plus fiddling with that on set is time consuming and ridiculous. I hope RED comes to there senses and gives us film makers, where ever in the world we are, the choices we demand and deserve.

that camera is totally 15mm configurable. you just didn't do your research. not to mention very sketchy to assume you would turn it around out of the box for prep the next morning. also your whole 15mm argument is based on "because everyone else is doing it" and not because it is better than 19mm. which it is not. change is good.

i have the same critical professional expectations you do. look at the price though. look at the time frame it was made in. don't use it if you expect 435 ARRI hand grips. plus,chances are they will be coming out with some better ones. until then find another solution. this is the bleeding edge. it's not going to be perfect right out of the gates.

and whatever customer service errors you've had I have had the complete opposite experience. however, i can understand how errors could get made. this is a start up company. too many cameras and not enough people. probably fixing that as well. settle down.

[therosser]

Jim i am calling B.S. Big time B.S. Let's talk real stuff here.

You state on RED USER, "It is a miracle that over ten studio features and several primetime tv shows are now shooting RED."

BUT...

Soderberg was going to shoot 16mm anamorphic panavision after his first RED shoot and then switched to RED. You have never stated that. I have been told that by several panavision employees this information. You have a picture of soderberg on your home page with a panavison lens on a RED camera. He still had panavision adapt his RED camera because they had done so much R & D on the 16mm anamorphic that they developed it to RED. Why don't you sell a PV mount? Schilowitz showed a picture of Rodney Charters, the d.p. of "24" at HD Expo holding a RED camera set up with Panavision lenses as well. Speaking of Panavision, what is there ROD size???????

Then you email me directly this
"We acknowledge that we have a lot to learn. We are new at this and are working hard to improve everyday. But if you feel this strongly about being let down, you can return your camera with no hard feelings. Maybe we will do better in the future and you will reconsider using RED at that time."

Name the 10 "studio" features that are shot ENTIRELY ON RED. I mean Entirely. Studio. Name them. If studios are fearful of certain scripts and actors, what do you think they are going to do about a camera that is in "BETA" still. If you are going My friend worked on the "Game" 1st week was a nightmare. I know you are new. I support you. I've put 50k plus into you. But how many studios care about 19mm rods vs. 15mm rods. Do you think Brad Grey or Stacy Snider think about rods sizes??????? The people who care are the people are who use them. Let's start mentioning the D.P.s and the 1st A.C.'s that swear by RED and it's system. Not Soderberg!!!!! If soderberg want's to quote i want hear about the ease of the RED system, not just image quality. Does anyone remember, "Full Frontal"?????

Im not bashing that RED is not truly a 4k chip. Or that it is noisy. Or that 2k window sucks. Or that ... all the other problems. I am supporting RED and what they are trying to do, but when you write me and pretend to be on my side by saying we are new and trying to learn and then get on RED USER group and spout off about how 10 features and blah blah blah, common on you two sided dude. what is that about. what am i suppose to believe????

your here to learn? your hear to tell me i'm wrong? IF ANY RED USER WANTS I WILL FORWARD YOU THIS EMAIL FROM JIM. IT'S A COMPLETE CONTRADICTORY OF WHAT HE POSTS ON RED USER.

[Joel Kaye]

that camera is totally 15mm configurable. you just didn't do your research.... not to mention very sketchy to assume you would turn it around out of the box for prep the next morning.

I didn't really read this thread but that's what I'm thinking. I've had a lot of people asked me to shoot stuff before I got the camera and I said "no, not shooting for anyone until I've tested the entire workflow and feel comfortable with it." Hell - I have the camera and I won't shoot for anyone yet.

And since the guy is nearly having heart failure over 15mm rod adapters... I just think he wants to complain. Why not buy the 15mm Arri dovetail? Isn't that pretty industry standard - for a guy who wants industry standard?

http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/43

EDIT -
Then you email me directly this
"We acknowledge that we have a lot to learn. We are new at this and are working hard to improve everyday. But if you feel this strongly about being let down, you can return your camera with no hard feelings. Maybe we will do better in the future and you will reconsider using RED at that time."

If Jim emailed you that then what are you whining about? What more can the guy do? Give you a back rub? That's as good as it gets tiger... go to sleep. Maybe you'll feel better in the morning.

[Warren Kommers]

Jim i am calling B.S. Big time B.S. Let's talk real stuff here.

You state on RED USER, "It is a miracle that over ten studio features and several primetime tv shows are now shooting RED."

BUT...

Soderberg was going to shoot 16mm anamorphic panavision after his first RED shoot and then switched to RED. You have never stated that. I have been told that by several panavision employees this information. You have a picture of soderberg on your home page with a panavison lens on a RED camera. He still had panavision adapt his RED camera because they had done so much R & D on the 16mm anamorphic that they developed it to RED. Why don't you sell a PV mount? Schilowitz showed a picture of Rodney Charters, the d.p. of "24" at HD Expo holding a RED camera set up with Panavision lenses as well. Speaking of Panavision, what is there ROD size???????

Then you email me directly this
"We acknowledge that we have a lot to learn. We are new at this and are working hard to improve everyday. But if you feel this strongly about being let down, you can return your camera with no hard feelings. Maybe we will do better in the future and you will reconsider using RED at that time."

Name the 10 "studio" features that are shot ENTIRELY ON RED. I mean Entirely. Studio. Name them. If studios are fearful of certain scripts and actors, what do you think they are going to do about a camera that is in "BETA" still. If you are going My friend worked on the "Game" 1st week was a nightmare. I know you are new. I support you. I've put 50k plus into you. But how many studios care about 19mm rods vs. 15mm rods. Do you think Brad Grey or Stacy Snider think about rods sizes??????? The people who care are the people are who use them. Let's start mentioning the D.P.s and the 1st A.C.'s that swear by RED and it's system. Not Soderberg!!!!! If soderberg want's to quote i want hear about the ease of the RED system, not just image quality. Does anyone remember, "Full Frontal"?????

Im not bashing that RED is not truly a 4k chip. Or that it is noisy. Or that 2k window sucks. Or that ... all the other problems. I am supporting RED and what they are trying to do, but when you write me and pretend to be on my side by saying we are new and trying to learn and then get on RED USER group and spout off about how 10 features and blah blah blah, common on you two sided dude. what is that about. what am i suppose to believe????

your here to learn? your hear to tell me i'm wrong? IF ANY RED USER WANTS I WILL FORWARD YOU THIS EMAIL FROM JIM. IT'S A COMPLETE CONTRADICTORY OF WHAT HE POSTS ON RED USER.


The guy took the time to write you a personal message. Name another camera company's CEO or whatever do that. Then you try to challenge him publicly. Weak sauce.

[therosser]

jim emailed me that tonight at the same time he posted it to RED USER. He posts a polar opposite to what he emails within 5 minutes. as far as mr. off hollywood, i've got the arri dove tail. your not reading the entire posting and are just commenting for the sake of commenting. the posting is not just how lame it is that RED is only going 19mm it is that no one stated that things were back ordered and that parts would be missing. I have been waiting for this camera for a year and have gotten calls weekly asking for it. I am not so stupid as to think that i would turn it around and rent it, i have secured another RED and was renting that with my own. I am not the first to complain about RED and there lack of detail. As far as a start up company, come on. Jannard ran a BILLION dollar company. he knows what it takes. this is not something he is doing for fun. he knows he will make money, even if it is a labor of love. he also has a good work ethic, but ultimately is a good sales man. he knows as wells as anyone he is only as strong as his customers.

[Warren Kommers]

If you are talking to me which I think you are because I don't see OffHollywood on here. I have been involved in the entire thread.

Also I think there is quite a difference between sunglasses and 4k cameras. I've been very frustrated and continue to hope things get better with the camera. However.....over all the delays and inconveniences and it has been very worth it.

[Joel Kaye]

he knows as wells as anyone he is only as strong as his customers.

First - yeah, you're right, I do comment just to comment sometimes.

Jim knows about 3% of his customers are gonna be such big complainers that it's way smarter to give them their money back and let them go on their merry way. Given the number of cameras sold I'd guess there should be about 30 unhappy returns right now and 90+% satisfied with the bargain they made for RED to be doing well. If they are doing better than that then they are kicking a$$ in my book.

It's a new company growing and they've got some issues. And people here let 'em know it.

Why not just get your money back and wait a year. Then you can go down to the local union meeting and all the guys can get you up to speed in an afternoon because everything's ironed out and working.

There's no need for you to be the one to ride the bleeding edge. Be a trailblazer. Be the leader who teaches the rest of those guys in a year. You don't really want to be that guy. Do you?

[Jarred Land]

therosser... bad move. ( and your PV "sources" are feeding you a buncha bullshit )

Once you start publicly posting Jim's personal emails, you're on your own man.. best of luck to you.