LA User Group May meeting

[Russ McDonald]

I wanted to get a jump on May. So what do you folks want to do different this time, I'm sure the new cammera will be talked about. What would you liked to have that was missing at the first meeting

[MikeHedge]

sounds good. Here are some shots from the 3-15 meeting.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikehedge/sets/72157604137641957/

[Davis]

sounds good. Here are some shots from the 3-15 meeting.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikehedge/sets/72157604137641957/

Nice shots Mike, but my GF said this guy is hot http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikehedge/2339494732/in/set-72157604137641957/

I am angry, and ready to hunt him down and challenge him to a duel!

[Davis]

I wanted to get a jump on May. So what do you folks want to do different this time, I'm sure the new cammera will be talked about. What would you liked to have that was missing at the first meeting

Adobeone, where will the meeting be held. Same place?

[BigLu]

When is next meeting?

[Russ McDonald]

When is next meeting?

It will be a weekend same place Kappa Studios.

[Shane V8F]

The LARUG meeting we had in March was a great start, but as I have been preaching for a year and a half now, the RED owners need to establish some sort of rental rate for the RED camera. I believe the rest of the country is not having the same problem LA is having with all the RED owners underbidding every job just to keep their camera working. This mentality hurts everyone. The RED market is already crashing in LA because of the abundance of cameras.

I would hope at the next LARUG meeting we could have a session where we can talk about these things, and try to come up with some type of resolution.

Just coming up with a starting rental rate for various RED packages would be a start. What people don't seem to understand is that the RED body is the same across the board. This means that a producer can search out the lowest offer for a RED camera he can find, and get the same quality picture he would find from a more expensive bid. Producers are almost always going to go after the lower rate. As long as everyone is so eager to undercut everyone else to get a job, the RED rental rate will keep dropping and will become established at an insanely low amount. It takes just one rental for a producer to establish a rate in his/her head. That rate will be what he will pay until he can find the same equipment at a lower rate.

I suggest that we try to establish a starting point (Book Rate) for different packages. At that point an O&O can start his bidding for a job.

I have always felt, on my bids for other equipment I own, that if a bid gets uncomfortably low for a rental, but I want to help out the production, I will send the gear for free, and expect a favor in the future from the person getting the gear. This method keeps the respect of the gear higher, and makes me feel better about not underbidding everyone just to get a job.
Sometimes when you do jobs as favors, the return favor you get will be worth way more then what you would have made on the rental in the first place.

Just a few thoughts. I look forward to the next LARUG, and hope to meet many more RED Owners.

Shane

P.S. I just met with a fellow RED owner the other day who has had his RED a lot longer then I have had mine. He is very discouraged with the way the market has gone, and told me about a bid he was making to get a day rental. He said he had to put the bid so low, just to be considered, he was embarrassed to even tell me the rate. The producers response to him was that he was the lowest bid, but they were still looking to find a lower rate from other owners out there.

People, we are cutting are own throats, this could of all been a win win for everyone involved. I think it will eventually figure itself out in probably a year or so, but with NAB right around the corner, you can expect a whole bunch more REDs in LA.

[Shane V8F]

I have some gear that I own that cost me around $20,000 each for the whole package. I have been renting this gear out at $500 a day and only do 4 day weeks when the rental is a month or longer. The rental rate was established probably 15 years ago and has never changed much. Some guys get $600 a day while others get $450 for the same gear. This is the range of what you would bid on this gear. If the rate fell below $450 and I still was interested in the gig, I would let it out for free on a favor basis.

With a good RED package costing around 40 to 60 thousand dollars w/o glass, I do not see why we are already talking $500 or less for a complete package rental.

[timecodemultimedia]

What people don't seem to understand is that the RED body is the same across the board. This means that a producer can search out the lowest offer for a RED camera he can find, and get the same quality picture he would find from a more expensive bid. Producers are almost always going to go after the lower rate.

I completely get what you are saying and if the world worked like that, it would be a very beautiful place. Unfortunately, the underbidding process has started form the very start with Red One Inc. themselves coming up with great technology and undercutting Panasonic, Sony, Viper and everyone else on the expensive camera manufacturing side.

Red One Corp. has shaken the market so much, that lens manufacturers are pressing the big rental houses in L.A. and N.Y. to NOT rent their Fujinons and other high-end lenses in tandem with Red cameras. More and more you can only rent those high end lenses with the $100K+ camera bodies.

Red is the new FCP and Apple's Color (aka FinalTouch) is the new DaVinci. All of them with their pros and cons, the are revolutionary and CHEAP. So how can we ask Red owners to stick with a set price when the economy and the market keeps pushing vendors and service providers to become cheaper, better and faster.

I vote for set rates not just for Red camera stuff but for all post production services, but I sincerely doubt that day will become a reality.

[Shane V8F]

All I am asking for is a basic rate card for different RED packages. Pretty much all the other equipment in the industry have a starting rate. Some venders may be a little lower and some may be a little higher, but there is always a basic starting rate. Right now RED rentals are all over the place. I have no idea where to even start a quote.

It is like Gasoline in Southern California, the price is all over the place. You can see one station has it for $4.19 a gallon while right across the street another station has it for $4.89 a gallon. There is no reason for the difference in price, you are getting the same gas.

I understand the RED camera is cheeper than a $100 thousand camera, but it is still way more expensive then an HDV camera, but there are already guys renting out REDs for around the same rate as HDV. This makes no sense to me.

My gut tells me that the RED should rent for at least what a good F900 or Vericam package would rent for. As far as I can tell this should be in the $1000 range. Am I way off on this number?

I think talking about this issue is a good way to start, but too many people accuse the messenger for trying to price fix, this is defiantly not the intent of my mission.

[Russ McDonald]

Guys... Guys..... Guys!!!


Can we move this to a different thread, I have no problem talking about this at the May meeting. but we keep going around in circles on this rental issue. My feels about this are well known and I will not go into them here.

[david farland]

I like ripping the competition off as much as the next guy.
....umm, maybe a bit more.......but not as much as Abalone.

anyway regards hire, you gotta move away from the $$$ competition paradigm and into the service/zero risk or you'll get killed in the stampede!
Red is swamping the market so of course traditional comparisions go down the gurgler...as stuff become better/cheaper.

where's Kappa's.....

[pablano]

Are these meetings something you have to sign up for or are they open to any Red user/owner?

Looks cool. I'd love to come to the may meeting. What do I need to do?

[Russ McDonald]

The May meeting is shaping up quite nicely, I want to thank Stefany Allaire the CEO of Pixellexis Systems & Technologies (http://www.pixellexis.com/). They are going to bring their new red box to the meeting so we can see how fast this bad boy is.....

Also would like to hear what you folks would like to cover at the May Meeting.

[Russ McDonald]

ERGENT.....ERGENT.....ERGENT

May meeting had to be moved To the 10th of May, the other date was going to fall on a holiday weekend. RSVP will be Up very soon

[Igor Ridanovic]

Are these meetings something you have to sign up for or are they open to any Red user/owner?

Looks cool. I'd love to come to the may meeting. What do I need to do?

The meeting is open to any RED owner/user and the unlucky ones who don't own/use own one.

You will need to sign up for the meeting online and show up in person. We'll get the announcement out soon.

[Russ McDonald]

I am screwed.... This meeting falls on the same day as my Wife's birthday, the day after her birthday, is Mothers day. My wife isn't pissed, she's not yelling. she is ominously quiet................ :umm: :umm:

[Russ McDonald]

The woman is devious, doom has befallen me. There will be pain, but I will be there. My wife has used my moral conflict, against me and has decided to use it as leverage. Now what would have been two days of my Wife is my Queen. Now becomes an 11 day festival of my Wife is my Queen.

The sacrifices I make for Art.........

[Igor Ridanovic]

The woman is devious, doom has befallen me. There will be pain, but I will be there. My wife has used my moral conflict, against me and has decided to use it as leverage. Now what would have been two days of my Wife is my Queen. Now becomes an 11 day festival of my Wife is my Queen.

The sacrifices I make for Art.........

That's a terrible predicament. We'll love you up at the event. Here is the ANNOUNCEMENT:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=210466#post210466

[Russ McDonald]

I have decided you people May not really be worth it. Sure for the most part your a good looking crowed. You all are giving and quick to help. All in all very admirable qualities, but last night wasn't even the official start of my Wife is my Queen-Fest 2008. I found myself holding a purse, as my wife shopped for new bra... Guy wash that vision of a trip to Victoria's Secret out of your head...

No frilly, no lace, this was the every day."I got to work the south 40 bra we're talking hear." It is just the beginning,I never knew I had so may home repair projects, they just keep coming.

Frankly had I known that the house was in this state of disrepair, but I count myself lucky that it hasn't fallen down on around me, I mean it's been just 3 years from new to deathbed.

[Igor Ridanovic]

Ted Schilowitz will be in attendance. He will show the RED reel and talk about Epic, Scarlet and Red Ray.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks again for the invite Adobeone,

I might be able to make it this time.

Please let me know if you still like for me to bring a RED.

Will also bring some LEDz, hopefully also a prototype of the LEDz special RED Edition, camera mounted, the Brute 6.


ciao

[Russ McDonald]

Thanks again for the invite Adobeone,

I might be able to make it this time.

Please let me know if you still like for me to bring a RED.

Will also bring some LEDz, hopefully also a prototype of the LEDz special RED Edition, camera mounted, the Brute 6.


ciao


Please do and yes bring your cam.

The days of My wife, My Queen Fest-08 are coming to a close, and I must say it has sucked. In the future no meetings in or around May 10th. Ever!

My son has turn into a rat bastard on me, complete wife suck up write now. If this was an episode of HBO's OZ the prison drama. I would shank'em, but then I see him sleeping like an angel, and I realize why God made kids cute.

My daughter thinks, it's My daughter My Princess Fest-08. I just want hang out for a couple of hours with the guys. Were is the crime in that, well apparently its a big one. 11:59 on Sunday this fairy tale ends and My wife My Queen Fest will be no more, and will never come again..... Sorry T-shirts are sold out

[Igor Ridanovic]

Thanks to all who came to the meeting. There is always the next time for those who couldn't make it this time. Thanks to Russ' wife for showing her understanding!

Ted Schilowitz spoke to an enthusiastic crowd although there were people who could not physically get inside the large dub stage at Kappa Studios.

We'll post some pictures next week and announce the winner of the CoreMelt plugin raffle.

[Igor Ridanovic]

I posted some photos from the Saturday event at:

http://www.kappastudios.com/?page_id=21

Here is a good one of Russ McDonald with Ted Schilowitz.

http://www.kappastudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/red_laug_02_03.jpg

[KETCH ROSSi]

Miss it again! O well, I think I'll definitely make the next one ... I think!

ciao

[Michael Grugal]

I had such a great time there. Learned a lot and got my hands on the ET and Viewfactor gear. (wasn't able to go to NAB)

The screening room with the compilation of the footage was amazing!! I was blown away.

Unfortunetly I was unable to see/hear what Ted had to say. There were a lot of people in there.

Thank you again Kappa Studios! Great location by the way, right across the street from Porto's Bakery!