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Jeffrey, thanks for adding that. I can see how my statement might have been misleading. Yes, this is in the context of 3D and it is also in the context of the look they are going after. Sorry for not being more clear about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey T. Morgan
I kinda got the same uneasy feeling about the motion, especially during pans. Lately I've seen many conversion tests done by another project that plans to shoot and project theatrically at 48fps, and the 24fps versions still look weird. And believe me, these are people who the same resources as PJ. I think that by the time The Hobbit nears premiere, a frame blending technique will have been perfected where this strange motion feeling has been erased, but I dare say, for now, it is very much there.
Now, the images look outstanding, effortlessly clean, sharp and "subtly saturated" which is the term I've coined for Epic colors. Interestingly, I think that some of the "video" feel that some complain about may not have so much to do with frame rate but with the fact that the Epic footage is NOTICEABLY sharper than film, so even during pans and moves, objects and characters retain much more detail due to the 5K resolution. You ever noticed before the texture on the edge of the leaves on the gardens of the Shire? It is there now, but it wasn't before. And so it goes with every fold in the clothing, every strand of hair, every knot in the wood of the buildings, etc. It is a new aesthetic to be sure, but once it sets in, it is just as beautiful as the softer, thicker look of film. Pirates 4 had that look and I enjoyed it very much. Hugo on the other side, shot on Alexa, though a wonderful story, felt noticeably softer and chunkier...
Uh oh… Oh flump…Quote:
Originally Posted by fALk Gärtner
That stillness of a moving image has (as you know) has been debated for years on REDUSER.
Jim has always maintained that skew was good over global shutter as it looks less sterile…
But when you go to higher frame rates I am assuming effective skew is cut considerably.
Interesting that Cameron is pushing for higher frame rate standards for S-3d but that’s a guy that uses in some cases 85%CG in a live action movie.
I have a lot experience with hyper realistic VR environments that are rendered real time. So 24-30fps is nice but when you go over that frame rate then you do get into to this sort of surreal silky smooth motion. In 3d/s-3d it seems almost over penetrating to the brain… I know that’s weird thing to say. I think the partial slower frame rate with even blank or black screen can go easier on the stereoscopic pathways in the brain. I think the likes of Cameron and perhaps Peter Jackson want you to have that “penetrating” psycho-visual brain experience… This is almost shades of “Clock work Orange”.
My question Falk… do the stereo images appear to have a good dimensionality in terms of 3d texture for live subjects or is it a bit flat and not that different from something that has been dimensionalized? I know it’s not fair to judge a process by a trailer.
“Daddy why are we going to see Tin Tin… I thought you hate Tin Tin,” “Shhhh…” “don’t worry we’ll leave before the movie starts… and get ice cream.... Don’t tell your mother! (Here's twenty bucks... shhh!)”.
Cheers,
Eric
[Falk from that/your new avi I think we were separated at birth but I think I have at least 20 years on you…]
Magnificent work all around. What's PJ going to do next?
Jim, may I ask this favor, please relay to PJ that a Reduser respectfully requests that he considers making Moby Dick.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Anderson
Besides "The Hobbits" Part two?
"KETCH ROSSi's PERSEVERANCE" I kid, I kid, no idea, but I sure will be delighted if He did even just Produced... ;)
I find it strange that people talk about it feeling like stutter. Wouldn't it be the other way around? If they shot 48 fps at a degree of 360, the motion blur should be smoother (longer). So when doing the conversion to 24 fps I assume there would be some difference from traditional material, but the stutter could be a lot of different things. It could be how it's viewed, it could be the codec, it could be your monitor. If you judge the movie, Peter, Epic and DP based on an internet stream trailer you should have a reality check, there are too many factors to count in before judging.
The first thing, a 90's look? Well, the first trilogy was shot in the 90's so it might just be that they try to achieve a similar look, which is good, but I still disagree, it looks good, much better then most crap out there. Second, I assume that the DOF is based on it being shot for 3D. This is good and it's also great to see big scale environments in focus rather then limiting the world. The immersion, be it 2D or 3D will be much better if the DOF is longer for this type of movie and that "style" or way of filming might be more 90's then todays films. But 3D demands certain things to be good, it's a whole new way of thinking cinematically. The "haters" of 3D, as I see it, only hate it out of fear, fear of not being able to see the 3D effect, fear of not affording a 3D television, fear of not knowing how to handle it, well get over it.
Learn how to shoot 3D and do it well instead, this is what they seem to be doing with this movie. The 48 fps will increase the quality of 3D, it will be less flickery and more immersed.
I thought the conversion to 24 fps would look awful, but I'm very positive about what I've seen here, at least what I can see out of an internet stream. I also think that when this comes out in cinemas, you will want to see it at 48 fps in 3D, nothing else. When it comes out on bluray or similar you would want to see it in the same way. If you aren't an enthusiast about watching movies in the way they were shot, then I don't think you are a person that will see the drawbacks of the 24 fps conversion. A lot of people can't see details, be them good or bad, when it comes to cinematography.
I've heard people say the RED's color is lifeless and desaturated. I have no idea what they're talking about after seeing the Hobbit trailer. The most beautiful color I've ever seen.
Tintin 2 is his next project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Anderson
I think the higher frame rates and more globally shuttered looking images helps fast action sequences in S-3d. These tend to fall apart at slower frame rates (or are difficult to perceive) so I think ironically stiller looking more sterile images with greater sharpness contrast and texture moving much faster help the stereo perception of faster paced action more in S-3d.
Perhaps a simple but useful tradeoff I think, time will tell...
Cheers,
Eric
I seriously need to stop reading threads like this at work. Getting all choked up like this is doing nothing for my reputation as a hard-ass sarcastic bony-hearted code guru.
The mark of the truly great is how much they appreciate the efforts of others, and how much always more they ask of themselves.
Chris