Lenses?

[Andrew M.]

Gentleman, if we have Abakus stretching image across the whole S35 area,
what EFP/ENG lenses will you pick that will be really good quality withstanding the demand of the 4K resolution?

[Michael U]

I would like to be able to use my S16 Canon 8-64, currently with Aaton mount, with the RED. Any ideas on what the acceptable limits would be with regards to resolution/quality? 720P 1080P, 2K?

[Martin Drew]

I think the 8-64 is probably going to be an excellent match with the RedOne for a light weight package. The 8-64 will cover 2K windowed, so you can shoot any resolution 2K and down, either by windowing or scaling.

How are you going to mount it though, is it convertible to a PL mount or will you use an adapter?

M

[Michael U]

We actually had the lens changed from PL to Aaton years ago when we bought it in Holland, so I would probably go ahead and have it converted back to PL (at Abel Cine or other shop) rather than fuss with an adapter.

[Hans von Sonntag]

I think the 8-64 is probably going to be an excellent match with the RedOne for a light weight package. The 8-64 will cover 2K windowed, so you can shoot any resolution 2K and down, either by windowing or scaling.
M

Martin,

I shot with my old Arri SR S16 often with the Canon 8-64 and find it a very sharp lens, a real S16 classic. It matches my old 16mm Zeiss HighSpeeds pretty well.
I now purchased a Cooke 20-100 in pristine condition because I want the dof of 35mm. Its is about 4.5 kilos and totally understimated, you will find them around 3-5k. If the Red with the necessary accessories will not weight much more than my old Arri its going to be a unit that will work in an EFP environment nicely. For a well trained 16mm doc-shooter the 8-64 will be a perfect lens for ENG work, although it might be a bit short. Otherwise you have to use a B4 adaptor and an ENG HD-Zoom.

Slightly off topic: I don't find the RED One an ideal ENG Camera. For ENG work the camera-team has to hand over some sort of compatible data-carrier eg. tapes, discs etc., often in pretty high time pressure. As long as REDCODE is not a widely used working-codec in the world of news-tv I don't recon producer will accept RED One ENG-Teams. ENG ist not about pristine, arty pictures, ENG is about news and tight timings.

Hans "who knows how cool a big old Cooke looks on 35mm and don't cares about the extra kilos" von Sonntag

[Steve Gibby]

DANCAD3D: Interesting data and concepts! I like your line of thinking on that...

Hans: I agree with what you said about the limitations of RED One for pure electronic news gathering (ENG). See my definition of ENG in the Sticky post on the menu page of this forum. For ENG, IMO RED One is still a good candidate for non-time sensitive b-roll stringing of creative shots for doc-style segments, ins/outs/teases, etc.

[Hans von Sonntag]

Gibby:

Totally accepted! But if you want to shoot sensitive stuff, why not to shoot it 4k and 35mm lenses?
B-roll shots should work seamlessly in the film a team creates. If you have classic ENG stuff RED will not fit that well into this kind of production. You will use some Sony ENG equipment. If you use RED for b-roll stringing you will have the funny situation that b-roll looks much nicer than the a-stuff. Great. For shooting documentaries RED will be the camera of choice.

I suppose if you you put a decent 35mm lens on this camera only once you are screewed. You don't want to shoot with any other lenses any more. Reminds me of my self when I shot 15 years ago my first commercial on 35mm... and than had to go back shooting news. Hard times.

Keep the good stuff running,

Hans

Edit: The great thing about RED is its scalability. Get a 8-64 Canon Zoom for EFP and the ENG work you mentioned and for different stuff put a Cook zoom or primes on the camera. Still I don't think that
B4 adapted HD zooms deliver the quality RED deserves even in 1080p. I shoot a lot with HDCAM cameras and used a variety of lenses and found that the HD zoom are very expensive and by far inferior to a Canon 8-64 in terms of colour fringing and sharpness especially in the corners of the pictures. No wonder if you consider the zoom-ratio of 10 and more.

[Martin Drew]

Hans

The Cooke 20-100 looks like an excellent second hand buy and there seem to be a few of them around. I thought it might be a bit too heavy for much "on the shoulder" work, but great on a tripod.

M

[Andrew M.]

Hans

The Cooke 20-100 looks like an excellent second hand buy and there seem to be a few of them around. I thought it might be a bit too heavy for much "on the shoulder" work, but great on a tripod.

M

Do they sell wide angle adapter for this?
20 is bit to narrow, especially for 2K shooting.

[Steve Gibby]

I suppose if you you put a decent 35mm lens on this camera only once you are screewed. You don't want to shoot with any other lenses any more. Reminds me of my self when I shot 15 years ago my first commercial on 35mm... and than had to go back shooting news. Hard times.

LOL...once you've had steak it's hard to go back to hamburger!

Anything I can shoot with RED One using S35mm and 35mm still lenses, that the field workflow enables and justifies, I'll shoot that way. That said, many RED One adopters have already invested in B4 2/3" HD ENG zooms, and they work heavily in genres of production that call for a powered servo zoom, and no follow focus, matte box, etc. For them, when working in genres that call for those set up configurations, B4 2/3" HD ENG zoom use on RED One makes real good sense. Those genres of projects are delivered in 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576i, and 480i.

I work in so many camera configurations and genres/sub-genres, that the very first thing I do when approaching a project is analyze what the very best equipment configuration is for that project, then figure out how to pull it off in a cost-effective way. I'm not hung up on cine-style or EFP style configurations, or combinations thereof - I just try to use the camera/lens/accessory setup that makes the best sense for the needed production values, workflow, and delivery medium of the project. What I don't own, I rent. IMO the beauty of RED One will be the scalability and flexibility to do what I just described.

With older B4 2/3" HD ENG zooms on RED One, the footage will probably be good, but with some of the newer B4 2/3" HD ENG zooms, I think the footage will be exceptional. The new ones are very expensive, so like I say, that's a logical option for those who already have them for their f900's and Varicams, but are now adopting RED One.

IMO the Canon 8-64 is an excellent lens. That said, I wouldn't buy any lenses between now and NAB. I would definitely wait until after NAB to make a lens buying decision...