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  #1 Dragon misconceptions and clarification... 
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Let’s see if we can clear up some Dragon misconceptions.

    1. The native Dragon sensor clearly shows 18+ stops shot on our Frankie test bed last December which was posted. Obviously, we were excited out of our skull. Stuffing the sensor’s capability into an electronics package the size of a matchbox always causes loss of performance. That is why we stuck with 3-4 stops of improvement over the EPIC MX. We always measure dynamic range with the engineering definition… as do most others. We said repeatedly 16 stops for EPIC Dragon, which is more than any other digital cinema camera. We stick by this statement… even though we see continuing improvements over time, just as we have always done. For free.

    2. If you want 20 stops of dynamic range… shoot EPIC Dragon HDRx 4.

    3. We do not incorporate a low contrast filter inside our camera as does the Alexa. While it does soften roll off, we think the user should have control of that aspect of the image. Add a 1/4 LowCon and match that characteristic if you like it. Since many seem to be lost on this point, we are now looking at adding a low-con LP filter option which you can change out with your original. It certainly gives the appearance of more dynamic range because the rolloff “blooms” or softens the transition. It is a baked in look however if it is done in camera. Maybe someone should make a post filter?

    4. I recently posted that the Dragon was “insert the highest superlative known to man here”. Of course I have taken a lot of flack for being a hype-monster over this quote (and a few others). Maybe that moniker is well deserved… or maybe I’m just being proud of the team’s real accomplishments. You make the call. In defensive of my statement, which I will reiterate now, I offer the following:

    The Dragon has more native dynamic range than any motion capture camera ever made as measured by the standard engineering definition… signal to noise ratio. And it does it with the least amount of noise.

    The Dragon outputs more measured resolution than any motion capture camera. That includes a 4K scan of 65mm film or the Sony F65. Notice I didn’t say captured resolution… I said measured resolution.

    The Dragon shoots 100fps at 6K. Good, cheap and fast. Pick all three.

    The color depth of the Dragon was increased to 16 bit. New Graeme color science. Skin tones.

    We have a thousand knobs to turn to extract more performance from the Dragon’s electronic package, just as we did with the RED ONE and EPIC MX. You remember, it was a “new camera for free” several times. If you are not familiar with this… ask any long term RED customer.

    The Dragon is an upgrade to EPIC… one of the smallest, lightest and most accessorized cameras in the cinema industry. You don’t have to buy a new camera to get Dragon.

    You can shoot REDCODE RAW on Dragon at an incredibly high compression ratio and get incredible results. That means your SSDs are not obsolete. You really want to shoot uncompressed or RGB?

    Now… if you want to debate a single point, feel free. Then I would ask you to look at the total package above and tell me why I can’t retire tomorrow having delivered what was promised… for less than $10K.

    My goal when I started RED was to make the best camera in the world. The most important showcase for image capture is the motion picture industry. Check.

    I am old. I am tired. I started Oakley 38 years ago. RED 7 years ago. In both cases my goal was to make a difference. To declare war on conventional thinking. Inventions wrapped in art. Dedicated to purpose beyond reason. Thermonuclear Protection.

    I have had the chance to work with the most incredible people for so many years… both at Oakley and at RED. Too many people to mention… except one. Jarred Land. To release the Dragon with my closest buddy is a dream come true. I really don’t think I can ever top it. We’ll see.

    God love us all.

    Jim
    Last edited by Jannard; 08-07-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Joseph Seuferling's Avatar
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    Well put.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Let’s see if we can clear up some Dragon misconceptions.

    1. The native Dragon sensor clearly shows 18+ stops shot on our Frankie test bed last December which was posted. Obviously, we were excited out of our skull. Stuffing the sensor’s capability into an electronics package the size of a matchbox always causes loss of performance. That is why we stuck with 3-4 stops of improvement over the EPIC MX. We always measure dynamic range with the engineering definition… as do most others. We said repeatedly 16 stops for EPIC Dragon, which is more than any other digital cinema camera. We stick by this statement… even though we see continuing improvements over time, just as we have always done. For free.

    2. If you want 20 stops of dynamic range… shoot EPIC Dragon HDRx 4.

    3. We do not incorporate a low contrast filter inside our camera as does the Alexa. While it does soften roll off, we think the user should have control of that aspect of the image. Add a 1/4 LowCon and match that characteristic if you like it. Since many seem to be lost on this point, we are now looking at adding a low-con LP filter option which you can change out with your original. It certainly gives the appearance of more dynamic range because the rolloff “blooms” or softens the transition. It is a baked in look however if it is done in camera. Maybe someone should make a post filter?

    4. I recently posted that the Dragon was “insert the highest superlative known to man here”. Of course I have taken a lot of flack for being a hype-monster over this quote (and a few others). Maybe that moniker is well deserved… or maybe I’m just being proud of the team’s real accomplishments. You make the call. In defensive of my statement, which I will reiterate now, I offer the following:

    The Dragon has more native dynamic range than any motion capture camera ever made as measured by the standard engineering definition… signal to noise ratio. And it does it with the least amount of noise.

    The Dragon outputs more measured resolution than any motion capture camera. That includes a 4K scan of 65mm film or the Sony F65. Notice I didn’t say captured resolution… I said measured resolution.

    The Dragon shoots 100fps at 6K. Good, cheap and fast. Pick all three.

    The color depth of the Dragon was increased to 16 bit. New Graeme color science. Skin tones.

    We have a thousand knobs to turn to extract more performance from the Dragon’s electronic package, just as we did with the RED ONE and EPIC MX. You remember, it was a “new camera for free” several times. If you are not familiar with this… ask any long term RED customer.

    The Dragon is an upgrade to EPIC… one of the smallest, lightest and most accessorized cameras in the cinema industry. You don’t have to buy a new camera to get Dragon.

    You can shoot REDCODE RAW on Dragon at an incredibly high compression ratio and get incredible results. That means your SSDs are not obsolete. You really want to shoot uncompressed or RGB?

    Now… if you want to debate a single point, feel free. Then I would ask you to look at the total package above and tell me why I can’t retire tomorrow having delivered what was promised… for less than $10K.

    My goal when I started RED was to make the best camera in the world. The most important showcase for image capture is the motion picture industry. Check.

    I am old. I am tired. I started Oakley 38 years ago. RED 7 years ago. In both cases my goal was to make a difference. To declare war on conventional thinking. Inventions wrapped in art. Dedicated to purpose beyond reason. Thermonuclear Protection.

    I have had the chance to work with the most incredible people for so many years… both at Oakley and at RED. Too many people to mention… except one. Jarred Land. To release the Dragon with my closet buddy is a dream come true. I really don’t think I can ever top it. We’ll see.

    God love us all.

    Jim
    Jim, you the man. Can't wait to get my hands on Dragon. You have done as much to change cinema as any man over the past 50 years. KUDOS.
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
    // SMALL GIANT //
    smallgiant.tv
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    It appears everyone is speechless. Way to go, Jim!!
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Ketch Rossi's Avatar
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    Even so not having shot the DRAGON as of yet ( but truly look forward to it very soon) but taking upon what I have seen and read, I can say that you can haply "RETIRE" Jim, should you chose to do so, as IMO you did accomplished al that you set out to do...
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Roberto Lequeux's Avatar
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    Congratulations Jim. You made everyone's dream camera. You've really done it! Thank you.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Noel R.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Jim!
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post

    The color depth of the Dragon was increased to 16 bit. New Graeme color science. Skin tones.
    Wonderful!!!

    Dragon has got enough measured resolution and dynamic range as two very important parts of IQ (Image Quality).

    Hopefully that the new Graeme color science and skin tones will improve and follow pretty soon the two other parts of IQ that were mentioned above.
    "There is no point in having sharp images when you've fuzzy ideas."
    Jean-Luc Godard.

    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
    Thom Hogan
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Samir Patel's Avatar
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    Well said Jim! I can't wait to upgrade to Dragon. If I miss the upgrade window I will just have to make do with my Scarlet until the time is right to buy a Dragon outright. But Dragon in my future has definitely been decided!
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  10. #10  
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    There is no doubt that you gentlemen advanced Cinema for the benefit of everyone in the film industry and continue to do so.
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