Wide DOF lenses

[Mike Harrington]

I'm planning a lens kit for my Red, going to go with 2 or 3 nikons, and purchase the Nikon mount option.

Now I know everyone is concerned with shallow DOF, as am I....but a good chunk of my work will also be live event stuff...then down converted.

So as well as some of the great Nikons that Evin has reviewed... I could also use a wider DOF lens that could fit the Nikon mount....in this case a zoom is a must, and breathing is irrelevant.

Any suggestions for a lens that may fit the bill?

[chuck colburn]

I'm planning a lens kit for my Red, going to go with 2 or 3 nikons, and purchase the Nikon mount option.

Now I know everyone is concerned with shallow DOF, as am I....but a good chunk of my work will also be live event stuff...then down converted.

So as well as some of the great Nikons that Evin has reviewed... I could also use a wider DOF lens that could fit the Nikon mount....in this case a zoom is a must, and breathing is irrelevant.

Any suggestions for a lens that may fit the bill?

Not quite sure what you mean. Are you looking for a shorter focal length (wider field of view) lens? Or a shallower depth of field (larger f stop) lens? Or a deeper depth of field (smaller f stop) lens which would be any lens stopped down?

[Mike Harrington]

I'm looking for a lens with a deeper depth of field.....


basically I am coming from a ENG background and 2/3 camera's, I have no real experience with 35mm lenses, the thought of shallow DOF while filming a live stage event, with talent running to and fro, sounds like a focusing nightmare...

I realize stopping down a lens will increase it's DOF, but at the same time a lot of these events would be low light conditions.....from my 2/3 experience...(I realize the Red will be significantly better.)

Hope that makes sense:clown2:

[Martin Drew]

The best option for this application has to be a B4 lens + adapter and shooting windowed. Alternatively you could find a second hand s16 lens, that would probably work out a lot cheaper. That way you will have the DOF approaching that of a 2/3" lens. You could of course use the same 35mm stills lenses and shoot windowed, effectively only using the centre of the frame, that will give the same effect as an S16 lens but with the luxury of being able to switch to 4K recording for some wide establishing shots maybe. Focusing may be an issue using stills lenses for this kind of very dynamic application though.

M

[Mike Harrington]

Thanks Martin...I was thinking along these lines. I would rather not go th B4 and adapter route if I can avoid it.

So your saying a 35mm shooting windowed will have a similar DOF to a 16mm?
That's a very useful fact.

How about a longer lens...say 300mm or bigger, does the focal length affect DOF as well?

[Martin Drew]

Thanks Martin...I was thinking along these lines. I would rather not go th B4 and adapter route if I can avoid it.

So your saying a 35mm shooting windowed will have a similar DOF to a 16mm?
That's a very useful fact.

How about a longer lens...say 300mm or bigger, does the focal length affect DOF as well?

Yes if you window the 35mm lens to shoot 2k you will being using the same area on the sensor as a s16 lens. You would then get twice the magnification that you would if you used the same focal length lens to shoot 4k (it would be like using a 2x extender). The neat thing would be that you could also switch the camera to 4k to get a wider FOV or where you were shooting more controlled material.

Yes. A longer lens will give you less DOF when shooting the same subject.

M

[Mike Harrington]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Pig]

mdharrington,
there was an Australian photographer who invented a lens that would be GREAT to have for the Red One.
If I recall correctly he basically took some lenses apart and fiddled with their elements until he came up with a "magic" combination that allowed everything to be in focus. He basically had ultimate deep DOF. From macro to infinity, it is all in focus.
It was an amazing feat.

I forgot the guy's name by now, but google helps in those cases: look for a Frazier Lens (named after Jim Frazier).
He signed a contract with Panavision, so they now hold the patent and rights to it.
http://www.panavision.com/product_de...49,c50,c87,c90

It would be SWEET to see what a Red One could do with a Frazier lens !!!

Here's another link that explains Jim Frazier's "story":
http://www.wipo.int/sme/en/case_studies/frazier.htm

And here's a nice quote from the man himself (Jim Frazier):
"I was doing my first research on the Frazier lens fifteen years ago.
He said that the extended depth of field I sought was an "optical impossibility ".
Not being an optics specialist, I went ahead and apparently achieved the impossible.
In science there are only temporary answers. We devise 'laws of nature' to comfort
our egos, and they need constant revision."

[chuck colburn]

WOW!

That's interesting. They sure aren't telling you much about it on the Panny web site, but judging by the physical constrution it reminda me of a trick that can be done with view cameras. It envolves using the front standard rise and I think the rear shift or swing or both (not sure though) which would result in an increased depth of field no matter what the taking lens was. It had a name, something like the "Schluminflager Rule" lol or something like that. Any of you large format types know what I'm talking about?

Chuck

[Ralph Oshiro]

Yes, it's the "Scheimpflug Rule." You basically tilt/swing the film plane and the lens plane (on a view camera) to effect a "shift" in the plane of focus. For example, you could tilt the film and lens planes so that the entire surface of a road, from a few inches to infinity, is in focus. But the same depth-of-field characteristics still apply--just in a different, "shifted" plane. Like the asphalt would all be sharp, but a truck ten feet above the asphalt would be out of focus. Or something ten feet deep in a ditch in the road, similarly would be out of focus. So your depth-of-field doesn't increase, the plane of focus is just in a different orientation using this technique.