Thread: Looking to move on from GoPro to Red Epic Dragon.

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  1. #1 Looking to move on from GoPro to Red Epic Dragon. 
    Was looking to get an Octocopter to do some aerials with my GroPro but the more and more I watch RED videos I feel like the GoPro is minor league compared to Red quality. I can tell from reading these boards there seems to be an excess of Dragons in LA and NYC which makes sense by default. How much in demand is this camera in the Boston area? I have looked at some rental houses in the area and not many if any seem to have the Dragon available to rent. Just the older model REDS.

    It didn't seem like it since its such a new product but is there any used market for the Dragons yet?
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Elsie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Colantuoni View Post
    ...

    It didn't seem like it since its such a new product but is there any used market for the Dragons yet?
    I'm sure there is, but at a premium rather than a reduction in price. '-)
    One camera is a shoot...but four (or more'-) Hydrogens is a prohhhh-duction... Elsie the Wraith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Colantuoni View Post
    It didn't seem like it since its such a new product but is there any used market for the Dragons yet?
    Go through the "For Sale" section and you will see a handful of used Epics for sale in the last few months. It happens.

    My suggestion, though, is don't jump into this too fast, and instead consider renting a Red Epic setup and see if it does what you want, and see if the cost justifies what you need for your business. To me, this is kind of going from a skateboard to a Lamborghini -- which is fun, but it's also a huge leap.

    If there's no rental houses in Boston, rent one from NYC for a long weekend and learn the camera. The workflow in particular takes some time and effort to understand, but I think it can be rewarding and you can get good results, assuming great lighting and lenses.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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    if anything, a 'used' dragon is going to be more expensive than a new one right now because of availability. i wouldn't expect to see any dragons available on the used market for months (and months)...

    gopro 2 dragon is a huge quantum leap... have you shot with any reds before? i can assume there's some folks in your area that would let you hang out with them and show you the basics. using a dragon is just like using an epic, it just has an updated sensor/image.
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    Senior Member Dominik Muench's Avatar
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    The dragon will get you better results for sure, but is there a market for such a priced system in your area ? A lot of people might prefer the cheaper GoPro option depending on where the material is used and what for. More importantly than the camera question...you said "Was looking to get an Octocopter...." so I assume you've never even flown an octa at all ? You might want to spend some time practicing...completely without camera first for a few months before strapping a 80K camera system on one of these babies.....unfortunately its not as easy as just buying and unpacking a phantom drone and off you go. Especially a rig that can hold an Epic is a pretty serious and complex machine that requires A LOT of practice.
    And if you are based in the US...have a chat to some established pilots first...the regulations for these babies are pretty harsh at the moment. I know of a few people who spent 30-40K on drone equipment thats now sitting on the shelve unused & not making any $$$ because they cant get licensing and permits sorted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Colantuoni View Post
    Was looking to get an Octocopter to do some aerials with my GroPro but the more and more I watch RED videos I feel like the GoPro is minor league compared to Red quality. I can tell from reading these boards there seems to be an excess of Dragons in LA and NYC which makes sense by default. How much in demand is this camera in the Boston area? I have looked at some rental houses in the area and not many if any seem to have the Dragon available to rent. Just the older model REDS.

    It didn't seem like it since its such a new product but is there any used market for the Dragons yet?
    There's certainly not an excess of dragons anywhere, maybe only 15 to 30 in the world at this point. I think that you might be referring to the Epic x which is the current camera.
    Next question would be: how much money do you have to spend on this upgrade from go pro? You are going to need a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Colantuoni View Post
    the more and more I watch RED videos I feel like the GoPro is minor league compared to Red quality.
    How about that! A $400 camera doesn't compare quality wise to a $30,000+++ Epic Dragon... Are you looking at a Dragon as something you want to shoot with / operate? or as something that you can use as a rental business?

    Most of the guys that I've met / have been contacted by who bought a RED as an income generating rental item have failed (and then tried to sell me gear at or above new cost). Mostly because they could only afford a body, and couldn't afford enough ancillary gear (cinema lenses, support, batteries, monitors, etc) so whoever rented from them had to go to one of the rental houses to get the rest of the stuff... Producers hate complications, they want all in one solutions, and want to know that it will work.

    Which is the next point - Do you have a network of contacts that will need / regularly rent this level of camera? A lot of the guys who have failed didn't - and one thing I've learned about production (at least here in Toronto) is you're on the inside... or you're not.

    But what do I know? Maybe you are rich and connected beyond our wildest speculation.
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    Senior Member Will Keir's Avatar
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    Same thoughts I had when using GoPro in underwater applications. "This is a waste" was a popular thought as I edited the material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Colantuoni View Post
    I feel like the GoPro is minor league compared to Red quality.
    You might even consider learning the workflow first.

    Download some R3D here online and find the right NLE for you. You might not even have powerful enough hardware to do the job you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    If there's no rental houses in Boston, rent one from NYC for a long weekend and learn the camera. The workflow in particular takes some time and effort to understand, but I think it can be rewarding and you can get good results, assuming great lighting and lenses.
    The gyro and multiple blades are making it so much easier these days then the old days of a single bladed system. A stable hover used to takes practice, now they autobot without your command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominik Muench View Post
    Especially a rig that can hold an Epic is a pretty serious and complex machine that requires A LOT of practice.
    Very true.

    Consider about half the cost being the camera itself, the other half for all the gear to make it ready for production.

    Then there are lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Powell View Post
    Most of the guys that I've met / have been contacted by who bought a RED as an income generating rental item have failed (and then tried to sell me gear at or above new cost). Mostly because they could only afford a body, and couldn't afford enough ancillary gear (cinema lenses, support, batteries, monitors, etc) so whoever rented from them had to go to one of the rental houses to get the rest of the stuff... Producers hate complications, they want all in one solutions, and want to know that it will work.
    It WILL take time, there are skills you need to gain and gear you'll want to buy. Enjoy. Nothing like the joy of images your proud of and that took work to attain.
    Last edited by Will Keir; 12-20-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Les Dittert's Avatar
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    The usual reason to get a larger sensor camera like a Red is for the possibilities of shallow depth of field , especially for people shots. But when you fly a rig, you are not in need of that as much, or at all.
    So instead of flying that 10+ lb studio camera, perhaps it's better to see if the GoPro4 or panasonic GH4 running at 4K might be a better choice ?
    Personally I'm hoping the GoPro4 will be the perfect air camera for 4K. Perhaps the bitrate will be up around 100 mb as well . My phone shoots UHD, so I think gopro has some catching up to do .
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Harcharan Singh's Avatar
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    This thread is Insane.......

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