Thread: Dragon and IR ND's and Hot mirrors

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  1. #1 Dragon and IR ND's and Hot mirrors 
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    I thought i would start this thread as i started one about the epic that went very quiet.

    Since i am waiting for my Epic M to be upgraded to Dragon i was wondering does the dragon require the use of IR nd's with a hot mirror in front like the Epic.

    I have been on a shoot for the last week where i was still getting IR pollution on my Epic M with 1.5 + .9IRND with a hot mirror in front so i could sit at T1.3 on my super speeds.

    Has anyone tried this on the dragon as i am in the market for a new set or IRND's since i have 2 sets of normal ND's and a hot mirror and i don't want to waste my money if the dragon doesn't need them.
    Adam Eden
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Tom Gleeson's Avatar
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    Adam,

    Check out posts from Phill Holland who has done iR testing on the Dragon chip and it looks like IR pollution is a thing of the past with the new chip even usng heavy standard ND filters
    Tom Gleeson
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member John Marchant's Avatar
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    Just shoot regular NDs, no issue at all on Dragon :)
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    Senior Member Frank Martin's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if there is a penalty shooting with Tiffen hot mirrors on a dragon ( new OLPF), Since we own them already. (Aside from being fragile and stacking issues). Do they cause a color shift?
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  5. #5  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Here's an example of with ND 2.7:


    I've tested 0.3-3.0 (1-9 stops) and I can confidently say with Dragon you don't need any IR protection. Regular NDs are the way to go. Now finding a neutral set of of those is a real trick though :)

    For comparison, here's the old Mysterium-X Graphic:





    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Martin View Post
    Does anyone know if there is a penalty shooting with Tiffen hot mirrors on a dragon ( new OLPF), Since we own them already. (Aside from being fragile and stacking issues). Do they cause a color shift?
    Yes. They will cause a color shift.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Daniel Stilling's Avatar
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    Man... Sitting on a 1.3? give your focus puller a fighting chance! :)
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  7. #7  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Stilling View Post
    Man... Sitting on a 1.3? give your focus puller a fighting chance! :)
    True story :) At ND 3.0, 9 stops of correction you would essentially be shooting in broad daylight at T1.3.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  8. #8  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan McCullough View Post
    Do it all the time although here I only need ND 2.1 or 2.4 .

    Sometimes I am as popular with AC's as RED cameras.
    It's going to vary depending on a lot of things.

    When doing "white shirt" tests here in LA in noon-3pm sun ND 3.0 handles it.

    When doing that same test in Wellington New Zealand. ND 3.0 is not enough at T1.3.

    Earth. You so crazy.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Eric Haase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Here's an example of with ND 2.7:


    I've tested 0.3-3.0 (1-9 stops) and I can confidently say with Dragon you don't need any IR protection. Regular NDs are the way to go. Now finding a neutral set of of those is a real trick though :)

    For comparison, here's the old Mysterium-X Graphic:







    Yes. They will cause a color shift.
    very useful. In the Dragon example you have set the white balance to a card as seen through the filters, correct? What does it look like at 5000K?
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  10. #10  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haase View Post
    very useful. In the Dragon example you have set the white balance to a card as seen through the filters, correct? What does it look like at 5000K?
    Correct, it's white balanced to the middle gray patch.

    I think they were both in the nominal range of 5200-5400K. Both the Old and New OLPF are in the example.

    Don't know why a specific Kelvin value would be of any use. There's insane color cast variations across Neutral Density filters from different and even the same filter manufacturers. This is due to batch variation. I have 5x ND .9 filters in front of me that when put in front of the camera are all slightly different.

    This is the same reason I color match my filters and compare them to each other. It's the same reason why some of the top DPs have their own sets of NDs that nobody else ever gets to touch.

    I send back anything that's outside of a couple hundred Kelvin in relationship to itself.


    Something to note, if you you look at the shadow color on the shirt of the New OLPF image you can see some of the further IR improvements even.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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