any ADOBE/RED news? please?

[Lucas Wilson]

So you know, I am not going to debate this subject with you anymore. This horse has been beaten to death, and I would like to think we both have better things to do.
...
If I am right, we have Cineform (Someday) and we all win, If I am wrong we have native support with R3d, and we all win. ...

Jay,

You don't have to "debate" at all. Just be factual.

There is a very good and very valid PC workflow. I know a lot of people that are shooting on RED and cutting on PCs.

There is not a native Adobe workflow with Cineform.

And this really doesn't have much to do with pushing "my workflow." SCRATCH is not an offline editorial tool, and most likely never will be. Putting on my ASSIMILATE hat, I don't care whether you cut on Premiere, FCP, Media Composer, Vegas, or Edius. Doesn't matter to me... And once you can do 4K on Premiere, it really still won't matter to me, because you still won't be able to do a whole bunch of other stuff that SCRATCH can do that Premiere (or any other offline editor) cannot do.

Lucas

[albert rudnicki]

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pres...CinemaDNG.html

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,

You don't have to "debate" at all. Just be factual.

There is a very good and very valid PC workflow. I know a lot of people that are shooting on RED and cutting on PCs.

There is not a native Adobe workflow with Cineform.

And this really doesn't have much to do with pushing "my workflow." SCRATCH is not an offline editorial tool, and most likely never will be. Putting on my ASSIMILATE hat, I don't care whether you cut on Premiere, FCP, Media Composer, Vegas, or Edius. Doesn't matter to me... And once you can do 4K on Premiere, it really still won't matter to me, because you still won't be able to do a whole bunch of other stuff that SCRATCH can do that Premiere (or any other offline editor) cannot do.

Lucas

Have a good weekend Luki.

Jay

[Mark Crabtree]

Jay,

I have had a number of conversations with Red owners while at NAB about the many advantages of realtime 4K intermediate from Cineform. I personally was biased against Cineform because of Cineform's origins in HDV. But after seeing Prospect 4K in action for myself all my preconceptions were boiled away. Seeing real time color correction using LUT's with meta data was just icing on the cake. Then when I consider that Apple's Color will soon recognize Cineform format I really get excited. And when I explain all this to Red owners and it seems to me that they are not comprehending it I just think; You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[Thor Wixom]

How true is that? It would be great if this were the case, it would make me happy. So is this scheduled for CS4 which could be a year or 2 away from now, cause as soon as the Red SDK is released we should have a working PC solution with Cineform here and now.

Awesome stuff. :sorcerer:

Christopher,

It's absolutely true, but who knows what will become of it, or when.

-Thor

[Thor Wixom]

I don't care whether you cut on Premiere, FCP, Media Composer, Vegas, or Edius.

I'm glad to hear this Lucas.

I fully intend to cut in Premiere Pro and finish with Scratch.

Will Assimiliate be offering native support for Cineform files?

-Thor Wixom

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay,

I have had a number of conversations with Red owners while at NAB about the many advantages of realtime 4K intermediate from Cineform. I personally was biased against Cineform because of Cineform's origins in HDV. But after seeing Prospect 4K in action for myself all my preconceptions were boiled away. Seeing real time color correction using LUT's with meta data was just icing on the cake. Then when I consider that Apple's Color will soon recognize Cineform format I really get excited. And when I explain all this to Red owners and it seems to me that they are not comprehending it I just think; You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Sheltie,

Welcome to the dark side. :) As you know, I have been a Loyal Cineform supporter since before it was popular. People assumed I was biased in some way, or just being stubborn. In fact, I had looked at the product carefully, and was sold on it for many of the same reasons I was sold on RED.

Customer service is fantastic, the product is solid, the quality is WONDERFUL, and there is support across a wide range of third party programs.

Now I agree with Offhollywood that native support for R3Ds in all Adobe apps would be a good thing, but my question / concern is that we need more than "support" Cineform has done a lot of work to make their product REALTIME in Premiere, and they included a number of effects, color correction, etc that are designed to function in realtime as well. The real time LUT reading is a new and very power feature. This all has taken a LOT of work and I believe this is what may set Cineform apart from simple "support". Be warned, I am guessing a bit here.

The workflow is simple, straightforward, and powerful. I highly recommend it, and have for a while now.

The part that hurts, is that it's sitting there... Working... Ready to go. We're one SDK away from the promised land. Of course, I have a hard time trying to figure out what the SDK is for if Cineform is already working. I assume the answer is a technical one above my paygrade.

While Other PC workflows may indeed exist, they do not come close to the speed, ease, or compatibility of Cineform in my opinion.

I think this situation was what frightened me about Epic. I thought to myself "There are such incredible issues outstanding with RED, I would hate to think that Epic would take time away from getting that SDK for even one second"!

Of course, this was a knee-jerk reaction. At this time, and this place, RED lives on the RED One camera. This is the way it's going to be for a while, they will see to it we are taken care of. Of this, there is no doubt.

According to the potential clients I speak with, RED's reputation for it's workflow is it's single largest hurdle right now.

Sadly, this issue exists on a few levels, not just editing support. RED is hard for some to understand. It's very possible that for these people, RED is not a good choice.

Jay

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

The workflow is simple, straightforward, and powerful. I highly recommend it, and have for a while now.

While Other PC workflows may indeed exist, they do not come close to the speed, ease, or compatibility of Cineform in my opinion.

I fully agree. Been a Cineform user for a while now and love the realtime in Premiere.

[Steve Sanacore]

I am just looking forward to native r3d support in all Adobe apps -

My take on it, from some educated sources was that until RED settled on the final Codec (just last month I think), only Apple was dealing with the it. Now that it seems to be stable, Adobe, Avid etc. will eventually have raw support. Although I am an Apple FCP user, I would love Adobe to also be in the game, and I think they will be soon. I watched some Adobe demos and was impressed by the strides they have made with Premier and AE, Blu-Ray burning etc all in OSX on MacPro's.

IMO

[Mark Crabtree]

The question for us wanting real time 4K editing is; what is the definition of support. If support means this new Red codec is going to allow for real time debayer the way Cineform's does then yes, at some point in the not so distant future we may see a native real time solution. But as Jay said the Cineform solution is working now. Cineform says their media converter will convert Redcode to Cineform 4K intermediate at a blistering 12 FPS, almost ten times faster than Redcine to Prores renders at 1.5 FPS. I don't know about everyone else but some of my clients baulk at the time it takes to deal with the Red footage using Redcine to Prores. Convetional thinking supports the old saying: Good, Fast, Cheap. . . Pick two.
With Cineform we could have all three now.