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  1. #1 DRAGON vs EPIC MX Noise - NOT GOOD 
    Senior Member Eric Haase's Avatar
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    Tonight I did a side by side with both cameras- Epic MX and Dragon.

    1) Both cameras were freshly updated to current release build 5.1.51
    2) Both cameras were brought to 65 degrees, set in Adaptive fan with target 65 degrees and blackshaded with port caps on and dark fabric over port cap as well. Blackshade was saved to USER HS and the I made sure to select USER HS and press SET.
    3) Cameras both shooting with Leica R 19mm at a 2.8
    4) Both cameras at 6:1 compression
    5) Dragon at 6KHD, MX at 5KHD
    6) ISO set to 800 on both

    At the bottom of this post is a link to the R3D files (10 frame trims of each shot) A001 is MX, A006 is DRAGON. I have also included photos of the cameras' touch screens to demonstrate how the goalposts and exposure tool behaves differently on MX and DRAGON, as I documented in a previous thread found here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...74#post1376074

    You can draw your own conclusions and FWIW here are mine:

    1. (My) Dragon is noticeably noisier than MX in the lowlight areas, given same firmware, exposure, ISO setting, temperature and proper blackshade.

    2. Dragon noise is different than MX in color and contrast.

    3. Goalposts light up full on Dragon and only halfway on MX given the same scene. Exposure tool, however and conversely, shows less purple on Dragon and more purple on MX given same scene.

    4. I studied some clips that a friend provided shot on Dragon with the old OLPF- very low light scenes. Those images were MUCH cleaner. Phil Holland's original low light images with old OLPF were MUCH CLEANER.

    5. I am very disappointed with the upgrade and I hope this can be resolved very quickly. I tried to test this as thoroughly as possible given I am only interested in comparing the noise in the lowlights and tried to have the fewest amount of variables possible. I hope others can do similar tests. I'd love to see a solution to this. For me, now, it is a real issue. I'll be shooting everything at the lowest possible ISO to fill the sensor with light until that fix is reached.

    I am more than happy to work with anyone from RED on this.

    ***************DOWNLOAD R3D TRIMS and touchscreen photos HERE: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayb9wvkwvy...ISE%20TEST.zip
    Eric
    cinematographer
    www.ericjhaase.com
     

  2. #2  
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    Hi Eric,

    My Carbon Fiber Dragon, which exhibited the same phenomenon, you behave described, on 5.1.48, with new OLPF, has been at RED, for a few days. I'll report back, as they give me info.
    Carbon Woven Stealth, RRX, KOWA ANAMORPHIC Full Production RENTALS

    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111020-FOR-RENT-CARBON-FIBER-DRAGON-SO-CAL-AREA-CON-U-S&highlight=Rent+Fury

    949.689.5614 srgtfury@gmail.com

    Thank you very much

    Fury
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    What's interesting is when I change Dragon to Dragoncolor/redgamma 4, The noise indicator bar goes empty. Then Switch the RC3 RG3 and the noise bar comes back almost full... Shouldn't it be even more full considering RG4 crushes the low end harder?




    Also, with same settings, Dragon appears to be crushed more on the low end. Did you shoot with same exposure? If Dragon has more DR shouldn't we see more in the low end? These are straight with no corrections other than changing both to Dragoncolor/Redgamma4.



    Redlogfilm/Dragoncolor at 100%:
    MX


    Dragon
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member R Fogg's Avatar
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    Can someone from Red please chime in on this issue? This issue appears to be widespread and some of us are at least 2 weeks into this with Red Tech support with no substantive solutions.
    IATSE 600 DIT
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member Eric Haase's Avatar
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    @Matt - yes same exposure- the lens was physically moved from one camera to the other and the iris is clicked so the stop is locked in at 2.8. I wouldn't trust the scopes in RCX for the goalposts- they seem to be really buggy.
    Eric
    cinematographer
    www.ericjhaase.com
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haase View Post
    @Matt - yes same exposure- the lens was physically moved from one camera to the other and the iris is clicked so the stop is locked in at 2.8. I wouldn't trust the scopes in RCX for the goalposts- they seem to be really buggy.
    yeah, other than the scopes, I don't understand why RG4 crushes Dragon footage more than MX... Redgamma 3 is the same way, crushed more on Dragon...
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member Eric Haase's Avatar
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    Also please look at the refrigerator- it is the area I am most interested in when looking at noise. It's an area of the frame I would expect to contain lots of useable information and it is where the difference in noise is most pronounced.
    Eric
    cinematographer
    www.ericjhaase.com
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haase View Post
    Also please look at the refrigerator- it is the area I am most interested in when looking at noise. It's an area of the frame I would expect to contain lots of useable information and it is where the difference in noise is most pronounced.
    Not even to mention it's less exposed on Dragon. Same for the area above the trashcan below the counter frame right. Also look at the wine bottles in the background and their exposure. More info in the MX frame... I don't get it...
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    But at 12,800... MX is clipped here and Dragon is not even close.




    Howerver, I will add Dragons color is such a huge improvement over MX.
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Ryan View Post
    Redlogfilm/Dragoncolor at 100%:
    MX


    Dragon
    Is it just me, or does the Dragon look cleaner in this comparison?

    Peter
    You don't need eyes to see, You need a vision!
    www.petermajtan.com - www.derylgroup.com
     

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