Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: DRAGON vs EPIC MX Noise - NOT GOOD

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Is it just me, or does the Dragon look cleaner in this comparison?

    Peter
    Depends where you look lol. In that corner is does look slightly cleaner. But look around the frame.
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member Eric Haase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Is it just me, or does the Dragon look cleaner in this comparison?

    Peter
    Please download the R3D files and have a look- those screenshots are pretty misleading. Ugh.
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
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    Matt - your 12800 ISO is rather self telling - especially I like the colour rendition of the Dragon in those heavily underexposed areas.
    I think the trick is NOT TO expose the two sensors in the same exact way. Given the amount of data retained in the highlights - the Dragon could have been exposed 1 or even 2 stops in favour of the shadows.
    Just to clarify - I am not disputing that this issue is indeed strange and worth more investigation and follow up...

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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Matt Ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Matt - your 12800 ISO is rather self telling - especially I like the colour rendition of the Dragon in those heavily underexposed areas.
    I think the trick is NOT TO expose the two sensors in the same exact way. Given the amount of data retained in the highlights - the Dragon could have been exposed 1 or even 2 stops in favour of the shadows.
    Just to clarify - I am not disputing that this issue is indeed strange and worth more investigation and follow up...

    Peter
    Very true, but then that refutes the claims that Dragons noise floor is improved if we have to open up more on Dragon vs. MX at same ISO right? In theory we should see more into the low end with less noise on Dragon at the same settings/ISO/F stop on both cameras.
     

  5. #15  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    This is an interesting test.

    It would be cool to see a comparison test with two dragons as well. Maybe Phil's dragon or Peter Lyons Collister if you guys can arrange to get together in LA? Or two dragons with different FW builds to see if it's fw related.

    I don't get why everything changed so much?

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  6. #16  
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    My completely subjective opinion agrees that the Dragon seems quite noisy in the shadows and underexposed areas at ISO 800. I haven't done any side by side tests, but feel that the noise floor is uglier than MX. And before anyone asks, yes, I always blackshade at operating temp (60) and make sure it is applied.

    At low ISO, I really like how the Dragon looks. But I expected a bit more from it in dark scenes at 800 ISO, especially seeing as how "2000 ISO is the new 800." I also feel that I get a bit of magenta noise in my shadows, whereas the MX noise was more color neutral (very noticeable when capping the lens and cranking it up to 12800).

    Highlight roll off on the Dragon is awesome. I love shooting out in the daylight with this thing. Feed it a ton of light and it really shines. But for those times when you can't get it a ton of light, be careful. I did some shooting with a tilt-shift lens (F4.0) in slow motion and had to ISO up in a couple spots (1000 and 1280) and wasn't too pleased with the result. Unfortunately I didn't have the budget for enough lights to light up the whole area I was shooting (big room + 72FPS + slow lens), or I would have just brought up the overall level and kept my ISO down.
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  7. #17  
    REDuser Sponsor CJ Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Matt - your 12800 ISO is rather self telling - especially I like the colour rendition of the Dragon in those heavily underexposed areas.
    The noise difference between the two is fairly dramatic, especially in the underexposed areas. I'd recommend putting both clips in a RC-X timeline, view at Full / 100% and loop it during playback.

    The Dragon has a lot more chromatic noise in it. The MX has noise, but it's not as bad.
     

  8. #18  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Wright View Post
    My completely subjective opinion agrees that the Dragon seems quite noisy in the shadows and underexposed areas at ISO 800. I haven't done any side by side tests, but feel that the noise floor is uglier than MX. And before anyone asks, yes, I always blackshade at operating temp (60) and make sure it is applied.

    At low ISO, I really like how the Dragon looks. But I expected a bit more from it in dark scenes at 800 ISO, especially seeing as how "2000 ISO is the new 800." I also feel that I get a bit of magenta noise in my shadows, whereas the MX noise was more color neutral (very noticeable when capping the lens and cranking it up to 12800).

    Highlight roll off on the Dragon is awesome. I love shooting out in the daylight with this thing. Feed it a ton of light and it really shines. But for those times when you can't get it a ton of light, be careful. I did some shooting with a tilt-shift lens (F4.0) in slow motion and had to ISO up in a couple spots (1000 and 1280) and wasn't too pleased with the result. Unfortunately I didn't have the budget for enough lights to light up the whole area I was shooting (big room + 72FPS + slow lens), or I would have just brought up the overall level and kept my ISO down.
    Interesting, but by all accounts the old OLPF/calibration was much cleaner in the blacks and at higher ISOs, no? Is this new presence of additional noise in blacks the tradeoff for getting extra lattitude in highlights from the new OLPF/calibration?

    Maybe this noise is something RED can address with some sort of firmware release? Dragons have had spotless, noise free imagery before, so clearly this is something they can have once again. Overall, not too worried, but looking forward to an seeing this resolved, for sure.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    With both clips at:

    2500 ISO
    Kelvin: 2756
    Tint: -14
    Denoise: 6

    The noise pattern for me is definitely favouring Dragon. Crank the ISO to 6400 and the MX is looking like chunks-ahoy. The Denoise function on the Dragon removes much of the purple noise.
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  10. #20  
    REDuser Sponsor CJ Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gundu View Post
    The noise pattern for me is definitely favouring Dragon. Crank the ISO to 6400 and the MX is looking like chunks-ahoy. The Denoise function on the Dragon removes much of the purple noise.
    I'm getting the opposite results with the ISO set to 2000.



    Most of it seems to be in the Red channel.


    600x600 Video crop of Dragon
    http://vids.axiomimages.com/proxy/pu...060843h264.mov

    600x600 Video crop of MX
    http://vids.axiomimages.com/proxy/pu...0609XXh264.mov
     

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