Thread: Group Buy: Budget CRI 95 LED Strip Lights

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  1. #3291  
    Senior Member Nathaniel Haban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence Steele View Post
    He once told me that there is no refund until ALL orders have been delivered.

    I ordered some things because he promised me a delivery within 2-3 months. I should have known better. It's more like years than months.

    He claims that he got a credit to execute all his orders. But why doesn't he give the production order for all of them?
    See... and this "no refund until ALL orders have been delivered" policy is completely new to me, and runs contradictory to what he's told me up to this point. I would be ecstatic to have one set policy, publicly stated, with some kind of documentation to back it up. And asking for that shouldn't be a difficult request.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Carstens View Post
    This experience is the single reason I will never participate in another group buy again.
    There are some fantastic group buys out there. But yeah, I've been sticking to existing products and/or large companies since this group buy.
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  2. #3292  
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    It may be nearing time for a class action. I regret that communication from Brandon tends to only come when threats are raised. Perhaps legal attention will help motivate a resolution to this frustrating process. I am looking into it, but I believe a class action can sue for delivery of goods, for return of funds, or even to place a reliable mediator in a position to collect and disseminate real information between this production process and its funders. In any of these cases we should be able to see records of the funds that were delivered and how they are being used.

    Since any one involved party can raise a class action, and since the original interactions were interstate commerce, It can be initiated in any of our local jurisdictions on behalf of the entire Group Buy's participants.
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  3. #3293  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Solowiej View Post
    It may be nearing time for a class action. I regret that communication from Brandon tends to only come when threats are raised. Perhaps legal attention will help motivate a resolution to this frustrating process. I am looking into it, but I believe a class action can sue for delivery of goods, for return of funds, or even to place a reliable mediator in a position to collect and disseminate real information between this production process and its funders. In any of these cases we should be able to see records of the funds that were delivered and how they are being used.

    Since any one involved party can raise a class action, and since the original interactions were interstate commerce, It can be initiated in any of our local jurisdictions on behalf of the entire Group Buy's participants.
    Looks like your order will be ready to ship tomorrow early with Same-Day Delivery (jus' jokin' - lol)
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  4. #3294  
    Senior Member Nathaniel Haban's Avatar
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    Hey Sean -- tried to PM you, but your mailbox was full.
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  5. #3295  
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    Nathaniel - yes, there's a lot going on. I just cleared out some space if you want to try again. I'm also at solowiejs@gmail.com
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  6. #3296  
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    Well, you could start a class action lawsuit, but after all these years (is it now 5 years?) what will be gained, or more importantly, what will be recovered? For myself, this may still fall under small claims court limits ($3K and $5K for larger cities- last time I checked).

    To be clear, I am not a fan, like some members named **** on this forum. This was a BUSINESS transaction, it was not a donation- "ie: sure, I'll donate $3K towards your indie film". Personally I've spent thousands, if not tens of thousands trying my hand at micro manufacturing, and it is not easy- but I left no one out in the cold for years waiting. I believe I left no one waiting longer than it took Fedex to deliver a package. And it took a tremendous amount of time, energy and money to just try out an idea. I am sympathetic and critical- from direct experience.

    So all you fan boys who root for Brandon- I think you are full of **** and I don't buy it. But I am practical, and to hire a lawyer for a small claims court filing- is it really worth it?

    The issue is, in five years, the lighting world has been turned on it's head, and product cycle changes now happen at an unprecedented pace. In here, things were promised YEARS ago.

    Having said that, I am sympathetic to Brandon's cause, and at this point I just figure the money is lost and if Brandon can deliver something- eventually- well, that's a good thing. If nothing happens, then we'll chalk another one up to experience with small pie in the sky Reduser Group Buys. If someone offers to sell you shares in a a bridge spanning the East River, well, I hope you don't buy into it.

    From my perspective, Brandon's mistake is that he didn't deliver on what he originally set out to do. He should have done the strips, then turn around and offer another group buy with the controllers and another group buy for the mats AFTER he delivered on the previous group buy. But that's all in the past now.

    So Sean, I am feeling $3K worth of your pain, but i honestly don't know if a class action suit will a) get your products done faster, b) recover any money spent.

    If anything it'll slow down Brandon's efforts to deliver products- any products, to some of the group buy participants.

    At this point I feel it's better if some people get stuff, even if I don't. Because if lawsuits fly, then nobody gets anything due to the cost of legal defense. Because of the dollar amount involved- small claims court stuff- at least on my end- it's a lost cause.

    If you haven't been taken by a smooth talking producer, or a coarse talking producer/client yet, then this is good course is small business school. Get your money up front or have the product in front of you before we lay out cash.

    I am not a fan of Brandon' business practice. One endless excuse after another. I mean, saying "I've been so slammed with work I haven't been home." is no excuse to not have paid-for-products made and delivered- especially when he has help fulfilling order. It is an EXCUSE nothing more. And we have experienced 5 years of non stop excuses. Having said that:

    I do think a class action lawsuit will be counter productive for all parties involved. Unless of course Brandon is independently wealthy and is truly holding out on us. ie: there is actual financial recourse. I suspect Brandon has not personally profited from this. I don't know, I simply suspect. To do something on "principle"- well, look at the GOP lawmakers. You can act on "principle" but what lawmaker has your back these days??? What GOP lawmaker is "principled" and is willing to follow the LAW and support the US of A CONSTITUTION???.

    THere are bigger fish to fry. Or in this case, burn.
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  7. #3297  
    Senior Member Nathaniel Haban's Avatar
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    As of today, this group buy is now officially 5 years old, and there are a lot of members still seeking some resolution to thier orders. I think if Brandon can't even bother to give us an update today of all days, that speaks volumes about his intentions moving forward.
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  8. #3298  
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    I have not been posting here because the thread has been taken over by a handful of people who seem determined to attack me at every opportunity.

    Several people were also using this forum as leverage against me in order to force special upgrades that would put me even more in debt. "If you don't do this for me I will trash you on RedUser," became a pretty common refrain from a handful of you.

    At that point I threw in the towel on RedUser.

    That said, I have been posting frequent updates about the status of things in the Facebook Group which Nate and Sean are both members of and have read. They are here stirring up drama as revenge.

    Nate, you never paid for shipping. We both agree on that. You say you never got the payment request for shipping and I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this even though I know I sent it. I ended up paying for your shipping costs myself and then while the package was en route you decided that you wanted a refund. You then refused the delivery and it cost me hundreds for DHL to return it. Then I told you if you found a new buyer I would cover the shipping for them as well just to get this over with. No one was interested in buying your order, likely because no one wanted anything to do with the drama here and I don't blame them. Then finally someone offered to buy you out and I thought this was finally going to be over. Except that, from what I'm told, you decided you wanted to charge them DOUBLE what you paid for your order in the first place and they bailed. Then you started demanding I refund you again and here we are. I've answered all your questions, Nate. You just don't like my answers.

    Sean, YOU WERE NEVER IN THIS GROUP BUY. You have received 5 shipments from me for what you ordered LONG AFTER THE GROUP BUY and are only waiting on a few mats which were never part of the group buy, and again, neither were you. A while ago you proposed everyone unionize and come after me. Now you have the brilliant idea of forming a class action lawsuit. You also recently sarcastically posted in the group about how you can finally use your lights now because the new power units are shipping, but you never actually ordered any of them. Maybe you aren't just trying to create drama and genuinely don't know what you ordered and don't realize you were never in this group buy. I really don't know. It is very clear you don't like me though.

    Lawrence, you have been harrassing me since 2015 when you first were shipped your lights because you were angry about the shipping costs from the US to Switzerland. You full on raged. The drama all played out in this thread. Then you wrote me saying you love the lights and ordered a bunch more. That seems to be the script we run. You rage and harrass, then praise and order more. It's exhausting. After your comment the other day, in essence, calling me an idiot, I kicked you out of the Facebook Group. You are welcome back if you can keep things civil.

    Karl, you have received 2 shipments from me and are only waiting on mats and power units that were never part of this group buy. If you have any questions about your order please email me or Regine. And, you are correct in thinking I'm not independently wealthy and I have made nothing form this group buy. I've only accumulated a large amount of debt from it and any assets I did have were sold years ago to pay medical bills, as most of you know.

    Kwan, not sure why you are jumping in here because you received everything long ago.

    As for the status of the group buy...

    LED strip lights started shipping in early 2015. Many of you opted to wait for the controllers, which took way longer than expected to finish due to reasons I think all of you already know. After my treatment I took a 5 figure high-interest loan to finish off the controllers and they have been shipping for a year and a half.

    Just under 900 controllers have been shipped.

    Over 3,000 rolls of LED strip lights have been shipped.

    Over 1,500 orders have been fulfilled.

    95% of the group buy orders have been fulfilled.

    The delays people are talking about now are for products that were never part of the group buy. For those not in the Facebook group, this is what happened...

    I made a huge mistake.

    I wanted to do something cool for everyone who has waited patiently all this time. So I decided to offer everyone who had not received their group buy order yet the option to upgrade their original group buy LED strips and power supplies to the new LED mats and custom power units I was working on. And I wanted to do it cheap.

    The mistake was I made the upgrade prices way too low.

    There were zero margins built into the price and even breaking even required me selling off the original group buy products people had.

    The first small test run of daylight and variable mats were all good. The people that got them loved them. They have been used on some films and TV shows that are already out now.

    Then I did a full run of the variable mats, which most people ordered, and that is when the wheels fell off. The entire batch was bad. Every single variable mat was wired backwards. Instead of 1 positive terminal and 2 negative there were 2 positive and 1 negative. You can make them work, but you can't adjust the color temp with our controller. A few people received these bad mats (and still have them). I have a mountain of them.

    So, the manufacturer did the right thing and replaced the whole batch at no charge? Nope. Quite the opposite. They agreed to replace them only if I ordered more and thus the delay.

    The latest news, which I posted about in the Facebook Group, is that I took a new loan to finish off all these upgrades. I have received the first of two installments and the entire run of 12V power units is done and has been shipping for a month now. More go out every single work day as Regine and I get through the orders. The standard mats are in the process of being made now. Then there will be the full run of 24V power units followed by the high power mats. Again, none of these products are part of this group buy.

    I only have a limited amount of time and energy in the day. I have been totally focused on fulfilling every single order everyone placed even though it's costing me a lot of money to do so. I've also, honestly, been working my ass off and putting everything I can towards finishing these upgrades off. Yes, I have been ignoring this thread and the handful of people trying to stir up drama because I take it way too personal and it's not productive.

    To those of you not on Facebook who have been caught in the crossfire I really am sorry. Please email me or Regine if you have any questions.

    To those of you stiring up drama here, all you are doing is at best delaying things more and at worst ruining things for everyone. You are in the Facebook group and know the status of things.

    To everyone waiting on their upgrades, they are coming. Regardless of what it costs me I will not stop until they are all done.

    It's almost 11:30pm on a Saturday and I have 16 more power unit upgrade orders to get out today and then I'm heading to bed.
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  9. #3299  
    Senior Member Nathaniel Haban's Avatar
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    Brandon... respectfully... your "but I'm the victim here" schtick has long since passed the point of having any credibility. The "attacks" you feel are from customers who have been waiting 5 YEARS to have product delivered that you said would be ready in months, and have continually been lied to and ignored by you.

    In my case, even now, you are lying about the basic facts of my case:
    - in early July 2018, you said my order was ready to ship. You asked for my address, and I provided it.
    - in late August, after hearing no response, I cancelled my order and initiated a refund.
    - you became verbally abusive and lied to me on several occasions about refund policy. When I insisted on documentation for this policy, you stopped returning emails.
    - you panicked, and stated that you were shipping my lights right away.
    - I told you that I already cancelled my order, and if you shipped them, they would be refused.
    - you shipped them anyway, making you and you alone responsible for the shipping costs.
    - I - like I said I would do - refused the shipment
    - only after bringing the case publicly to REDuser, did you return to civility and offer options for a refund.
    - I have since spent nearly a year trying all the methods you have recommended, with no success.
    - the last guy, PC Greene, bailed. This talk of "charging double" is B.S. , and I will gladly debate him publicly on this forum about that.
    - so after that failed, I contacted you again 4 weeks ago, and you've been flat-out ignoring my emails since.

    I have been as patient as can be expected. At YOUR request, I have pursued other methods of getting a "refund", by trying to find a buyer for my orders - even offering to sell at a significant loss to myself. And even now, I'm offering to work with you to get this resolved.

    So... Let's talk about my refund. I would be happy to coordinate things with Regine if that will expedite the process.
    Last edited by Nathaniel Haban; 12-08-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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  10. #3300  
    Senior Member Nathaniel Haban's Avatar
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    Just checked, and interestingly enough, my account on Koraled.com has been deleted. All my invoices, proof of orders, payments, etc - all completely gone. That's some nice corporate fraud there Brandon.
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