Hot Mirror/IRND/Mirror ND Filter Matrix [Parts 1-4]

[Ivan Cortazar]

Thanks Evin for the great review.

I've just ordered the Pancros. .6 .9 1.2 and 1.5

After ordering I just realized that the .6 is not combo and I don't think it has IR cut. Would the ND .6 without IR be an issue for the Red cam? I tried to look for also a combo .6 but I couldn't . Do you guys think it would be possible to just cancel the .6 filter on my ordered? My credit card has already been charged...

Thanks,

Ivan C

[zak forrest]

I tried to look for also a combo .6 but I couldn't . Do you guys think it would be possible to just cancel the .6 filter on my ordered? My credit card has already been charged...

I'm sure Pancro will take care of you, just contact them.

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

I was 100% sold on the panchros. Bought a set, shot a doc on them and I experienced nothing but trouble with "ghosting".

I was a huge proponent of these filters. Not anymore.

Even with just one of the panchros you risk ghosting if you have another filter (non-mirrored) behind it.

Even the "non-mirrored" side of the panchro seems extra reflective.

Almost impossible to eliminate a "double image" when dealing with specualar highlights.

Anyone want to buy a set of panchros .3,.6,.9,1.2?

Eyes wide open!

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Stephen Pruitt]

I want to reiterate Dylan's comments. Here at NEVER2LATE Productions, we have both the Pancros and the Tiffens (IR+ND) for our two REDs and Nikon primes and zooms, and on a sunny day, outside, the Pancros are definitely trouble. Serious trouble.

We have really bad issues with ghosting, as well, and find that the Pancros are completely unusable when attempting to use a polarizer or another filter in the mattebox. In many conditions, we much prefer the Tiffens. This issue is NOT a problem with the mattebox (Redrock), as, in an attempt to eliminate the ghosts, we actually wrapped the entire front end of the camera in Duvateen. No effect. It strictly has to do with the direction of the sun's rays and strong reflections. We find that it makes little difference if there is more than one filter in the camera or not. We still have problems. It is possible that we are having issues with the clear filters on the front of each of our lenses, but who on earth uses their lenses on location without clear filters on the front?

In summary, if you aren't using a large external monitor when you're shooting, better be prepared for Casper to make his appearance in your footage when you download at home. Some of these effects are pretty subtle on a 5.5" RED monitor, but you can definitely see them when it's all blown up.

You can see exactly what I'm talking about in the last sequence (junk/car sequence) of the first eight minutes of our film on Vuze. Here is the link:

http://www.vuze.com/details/DCVVZATI...VANCE&t=X&vt=1

Watch especially for the highlights, and you'll see Casper in several places. Watch, as well, as "Patrick" walks from the front of the car to the door. It's subtle, but there it is, Patrick's ghost is about 3 feet in front of him. The most obvious one is the highlight that bleeds off to the right as the camera pans from left to right of the grill of the car.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to reshoot these images. We shot them before we had a large external monitor and, frankly, before I even knew to be looking for them. Fortunately, however, no one except me has ever really seen or mentioned them. (Even our superlative DP, Seth Iliff, didn't seem notice them on playback on the large screen.)

Stephen

[Etienne Caron]

so, as i read, you guys suggest to totally cancel the Pancro IR+ND filters and go with the IRND from Tiffen ?

http://www.filmtools.com/tiffen-neut...ers-ir-nd.html

[Stephen Pruitt]

I'm so new to this game, I would hesitate to make any real recommendations on a yea or nay for the Pancros, but, if I were doing it all over again, I would go strictly with the Tiffens.

Stephen

[zak forrest]

We have really bad issues with ghosting, as well, and find that the Pancros are completely unusable when attempting to use a polarizer or another filter in the mattebox. In many conditions, we much prefer the Tiffens. This issue is NOT a problem with the mattebox (Redrock), as, in an attempt to eliminate the ghosts, we actually wrapped the entire front end of the camera in Duvateen. No effect. It strictly has to do with the direction of the sun's rays and strong reflections.

Stephen, I don't understand what you wrote, could you try it again?

Are you saying that Pancros in a Redrock mattebox are JUST FINE? Or that even in the mattebox wrapped with duvatine you have ghosting?

[Dylan Macleod, CSC]

Stephen, I don't understand what you wrote, could you try it again?

Are you saying that Pancros in a Redrock mattebox are JUST FINE? Or that even in the mattebox wrapped with duvatine you have ghosting?

I think he means that it is not because they hadn't properly sealed the mattebox...which is another way to get unwanted filter back reflection.

It should also be noted that some people have found ghosting in highlights with no filtration at all. This could possibly be when you get a prime lens with a large and flat back element. The reflective surface of the sensor can actually bounce an image back on to the back of the lens, and the lens in turn will send it back to the sensor... a ghosted image.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com

[Bob Torrance]

Just a thought. Has anyone tried using the Vocas mattbox with the tilt frame on front? Would it help to put a tilt on the filters?

bob

[Steve Murray]

What about a Tiffen Hot Mirror with some regular old ND filters behind it (closer to the lens)? Any problem with this? That's what the Hot Mirror is made for right? This thing with each Pancro IRND cutting more IR than the last is now confusing me, I was all set to get the Tiffen Hot Mirror while I wait for my Pancros to ship, but am a bit confused now..

You could use either the Tiffen, Schneider or Rosco hot mirror in the front of the matte box and yes, then use any brand ND behind those. However I have found that you can only go up to about 1.2 with that method before you start to see a little IR effect compared to the Pancro.

That is why I have the .9 and 1.5 Pancro ND+IR filters for really bright light. I also have a plain .3 & .6 ND to adjust those 2 filters so I get the amount of ND I want. I have been shooting with the Rosco Tru-Color in the matte box most of the time I'm outside even if all I'm using is a Pola with it. Getting clean images so far but I just got the Pancro's so I'm not too happy to read about these problems. Damn I thought I was all set.