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  #151  
    Usually, for a grade to look "good", on an average display you need to squash the range to nearer 5 or 6 stops though. However, this is in no way related to what or how you shoot, because if the range you shoot is much greater than those 5, 6 or 7 (whatever) stops, you have to get into secondaries to correct it so all the information you want the viewer to see lies within that limited range. I don't see how that relates to either dynamic range or latitude of the capture device, just that you're going to have to do some grading afterwards for best results.

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 8k Digital Cinema Camera
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  2. #152  
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    Florianstadler,

    I understand what you are saying. I think partly the confusion is arising that the word "dynamic range" is being used for both:

    (1) Full range of the sensor i.e., 12 bits
    (2) the tonal range of the objects in the scene, that may or not may not occupy the full 12 bit range. If it does not then the difference is latitude.

    We need to stick with one meaning of DR. However, there is no clear consensus that should DR mean (1) or (2) as far as definition is concerned. Though, as mostly happens, one typically knows by context that by DR one is referring to (1) or (2), and then some of confusion gets eradicated.
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  3. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    I don't see how that relates to either dynamic range or latitude of the capture device

    Graeme
    It relates to the testing you do before you start a film where you test your entire IMAGE CHAIN in order to come up with the best way to expose and light your Negative (be it digital or not) to achieve the look you are after.
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  4. #154  
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    Quote Originally Posted by florianstadler.com View Post
    With film your print could replicate a 7-8 stop range linear. It was a known quantity. For TV broadcast a 7 stop range would be more normal. That's why I "randomly" picked that 7 stop range and why it matters...
    A perfect film in an average cinema (with 'Exit' lamps and enough diffuse lighting to identify your popcorn) can reproduce about 10 stops at max.

    Some home theaters could reproduce more than 14 stops these days, if you paint the walls black, have black velvet seating and wear something black while enjoying images graded for a JVC DLA-HD100.

    Hard to find a camera with a 14 stops sensor…

    A TV in an ordinary living room (not a Pioneer plasma in the home theater described above) will be proud to reproduce 5-6 stops!

    A scene can have any contrast from 2 stops in dense fog to nearly infinite when filming straight into sunset/sunrise.

    The art of shooting plus the art of grading – hopefully two versions, one for cinema and one for TV – is finding the best compromise to make any of those scenes look convincing for the audience.

    Regards,

    Uli
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  5. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    Precisely! Latitude is totally scene / object dependent, as well as dependent on your noise threshold / preference.

    Graeme
    Hi G:

    Instead of just saying dynamic range, what about Recordable Dynamic Variation. This would take into account that Silcon is much more linear than film. A recordable change in the level grey for the medium would be a Recordable Dynamic Variation. For example, film doesn't have shaddow detail while silicon does. Maximum Dynamic Range would be better fitted to film. Here's an example of what it could look like:

    Red:
    RDV 12 bit (12 stops)
    MDR 12 bit (12 stops)
    Film:
    RDV 10 bit (10 stops)
    MDR 16 bit (16 stops)
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  6.   This is the last RED TEAM post in this thread.   #156  
    I think that might add a whole new layer of confusion. I know what you mean though....

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 8k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    IPP2, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms
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  7. #157  
    To Be less confusing, it could be simplified into a ratio. For each shade of grey, it represents how much on average is recorded.

    MDR/RDV= MLR

    Media Linear Ratio:

    Red: 1.0

    Film: .625
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